football

[GJH]

malc d - 2007-11-22 2:51 PM

 

Where are the REAL England fans on this forum ?

Depends what you mean by England, Malc.

 

When representative teams of organisations like the Football Association were first invented those organisations were run by people who were the de facto rulers of their countries. They picked their teams from amongst their friends (who played the game because they wanted to, rather than being paid to) and labelled the teams with national names because they assumed it was their right.

 

These days we have large, profit making, companies hiring, at great expense, people already being paid a fortune by other companies to represent them. The only thing they have in common with their counterparts of around 140/150 years ago is the assumption that they have the right to label their teams with national names.

 

malc d - 2007-11-22 2:51 PM

 

Surely someone is going to mention the fact that we won the World Cup in 1966 !

My point is illustrated by the criticisms (then and since) of the fact that the 1966 world cup squad received "only" £1,000 each for winning the tournament. In 1966, £1,000 was a good annual salary so hardly worthy of the description "only".

 

Graham

[twooks]

stop kidding yourselves lads - England won in 1966 because it was IN England, any player with real flair didn't even make it to the bench, it killed off wingers for a generation, and probably put back the game in this country for about 3 generations, it has encouraged a mind set fixed in the sixties or earlier for just about everything.

Calls have been made for Barwick's resignation - he's been defended by his oppos who claim that we shouldn't pick on Barwick - they were all responsible for screwing up the appointment of England Manager - notice they don't all offer to fall on their swords.

In McLaren's defence - Robinson has also lost his confidence when in an England shirt, he's an average club manager - did his best work as number 2, most of his first team players [beckham included] are either injured or short of match practice, and he was 3rd choice at best for the job.

 

I'm just relieved that we stand a chance of being able to travel to Europe next year with a clear conscience >:-)

 

 

that said - gave me an opportunity to watch a proper camper van win the race :D :D :D :D

 

 

B-)

[howie]

twooks - 2007-11-22 5:32 PM

 

 

 

I'm just relieved that we stand a chance of being able to travel to Europe next year with a clear conscience >:-)

 

 

 

 

B-)

Spot on Twooks. At least we can look forward to a summer free of yobs, wags and endless excuses on why we performed so badly again.

Can never understand why expectations are so high. Never mind who,s to blame, its time to realise we simply aren,t good enough.

[KD]

we should follow the example of holland with van bastern, germany with klingsman even croatia with slaven billac and apoint a young ex player

alan shearer is my choice

[twooks]

but with that as a starter for ten you could also get

bryan robson, steve bruce, stuart pearce - and err

wotisname - Kevin Keegan *-) *-) *-) *-) *-)

 

not many top players make a successful transition

 

B-)

[carioca]

K&D - 2007-11-22 6:11 PM

 

we should follow the example of holland with van bastern, germany with klingsman even croatia with slaven billac and apoint a young ex player

alan shearer is my choice

i totally agree with you K&D give shearer a chance we have nothing to lose we have no big tournement to go for a the moment so he could gain experiance in matches of a lesses importance. just look at roy keane he has made a instant transition from player to manager very successfully

[twooks]

not sure that the mackems would agree; he has very successfully reinvented himself from stroppy nasty player to calm reasoned manager - but hasn't done much yet with the team.

 

 

 

B-)

[Mike Parke]

Bearing in mind that in my younger days I was a tight head lock in the only true game a gentleman should play(!) and couple that with the fact that as far as soccer goes I support Norwich City(!) it struck me as something strange the McClaren should play a single 6'9" tall striker and leave (arguably) the worlds best crosser of the ball on the bench until half time!!

Further, why play Carson when he had a far better, on Premier League performances to date, keeper that he had not considered, namely West Ham's Robert Green. What I also noticed, and this has been the 'norm' for several years , is that the 'England' players do not seem to have any 'oomph' when it comes to playing for their country. There is no proud singing of the National Anthem unlike most other countries players. I wonder often if the 'pride' of wearing 'Three Lions' has left a lot of the hearts of them.

REgards Mike (Up the Canaries!!!)

[twooks]

so you play Rugby LEAGUE then Mike, :-> :-> good game

 

as for the National Anthem, perhaps that's the source of the problem! puts them to sleep - if you want them to have a bit of oommpphhh

then we need an anthem that does the same

 

funny - the scots welsh n irish teams don't hamstring themselves with the dirge so why do we??

 

B-)

[Mike Parke]

Sorry, Twooks, but in the R.A.F. in the 1960's 'rugby league' was not a game one spoke about. We played UNION. I fail to see how you can play a good game of rugby with two men short and that back heeling every time one is tackled. But then again I am a 'southerner' (albeit from the East coast!!)

 

Regards Mike

[twooks]

'fraid I've never understood the appeal of sticking your head in somebodies rear-end - ;-))) you must all be awfully friendly or have no sense of smell!

 

I'm actually from a 'union' town, never liked it - but lived near Wigan when they had that incredible winning spell - so much better to watch

 

B-)

[Thai Bry]

I really hate to say this about the England football team players (me being from Thailand), but my father was a good old Yorkshireman, anyway here goes.!!!

Apart from maybe 3-4 players that we can truely call "World Class" the rest of the team/squad are at best "Average".

There are too many foreign players in the leagues plying their trade, and this in turn is stiffling the younger home grown players in coming through the ranks.But you cannot blame the foreign imports when they see how much money is being payed.But you can not blame the foreign players, when they see easy money to be made.

Lets look at the so called heads of the FA. Now this makes me really laugh. Of all the people who can select the next England manager NOT one of them has any real experience in the so called world of football.

So I ask you all,(and I know there are a lot of businessmen/ investors on this forum) If you were to invest in a company whose borad of directors had no experience whatsoever in that particular market, would you invest in this company? Me thinks not.

So why would we trust these so called experts to be able to select our next national team manager.??These FA heads have no experience whatsoever in the real world of football.They are all media people and are only interested in raising money for the FA.They have no interest in the real grass roots of football.

I could go on & on, but I do not see any of the so called pre- maddonna's of football playing with any pride when they put on the England shirt.

Rugby Union, Rugby league palyers, play with a passion when they pull on the "England Shirt".

Where did the terminology "WAGS" come from?? FOOTBALL, that's where. Too much easy money.

Let the FA say- you now all play for England for FREE, travel to away games at your own expense, stay in hotels at your own expense, and you only get a small bonus if you win!!.Then lets see who really wants to play for England.

Rant not quite over

Thai 

[twooks]

rant on bri :D :D

 

don't believe that restricting foreign players will improve home grown talent, all that will do is restrict the number of players - so simple economics reduce supply increase the price that has to be paid - therefore yet more incompetent prima donnas with no example from players who can play.

does anyone think that the home grown wallies would be better without:

cantona, henry, bergkamp, thyssen, ardiles, viera, villa, zola [my all time best ever],

ok a lot of the imports do display an alarming tendency to fall over at the slightest breathe of wind - but that should be policed by the other players and the managers,

if we're going to restrict foreign players then we should also ban foreign managers - wow - there's a dreadful idea - who was the most succesful English manager??? Cloughie - Paisley - ["If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later."] [both north easterners - but I'm not biased :D ]

not many more in the reckoning

 

 

 

B-)

[Thai Bry]

Twooks

I'm not saying that there should be a total ban on ALL foreign players.

Maybe a system whereby only the "elite" are allowed to be able to play in our leagues. How many teams do we have in the leagues that feature an abundance of overseas players, when they could have home grown players instead? It's because they do not have a youth policy.

If we are to take risks, then why did we not play Walcott, who is a class player and has come through the Arsenal youth system.

As to managers, does it not seem strange, that only a small handful of the successful club managers are so called foreigners.Look outside the so called top four - Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal,Liverpool & then try and name a successful English manager.

Talk sport radio- which I listen to regularly- & the bookies are now stating that the odds are in favour of a so called "Top" overseas manager.

Yet big Sam Araldyce has the cheek to say that he's not interested in the job. Why would anyone in their right mind want him anyway considering his recent track records with Bolton & Newcastle.

Back to my original rant, how many so called England players would get a game every week with any of the top European sides, week in week out.? How many of our so called great talents have plied their trade at overseas clubs with any great success.

It took Beckham - 4 years to win anything at Real Madrid.!!

Lets start with the 1st Black player to go abroad - Luther Blissett did he win anything? NO.Linekar, Rush, Aldridge, Gascoigne and the list goes on. Only Keegan won something with Hamburg.

Still ranting

Thai

[net-traveller]

It's a sad fact that when sport changed to a business the attitude changed from playing the game to win at all costs.

You can see this everywhere including the Olympics - the recent revelations of Marion Jones as an example.

The players won't get out of bed of a morning without a guarantee of money.

 

As I see it the only way to get our displeasure across is to vote with our feet. Stop paying the huge ticket prices. Stop paying the TV packages.

Support your local league. They need the money.

 

I don't suppose it'll ever happen but .....

 

;-)

[KD]

maybe such things as the x box are to blame for the lack of youngsters coming through, kids dont play football 24/7 anymore. or maybe the fact your kids cant play in parks on thier own because of too many nutters.

[Thai Bry]

K&D - 2007-11-23 11:36 AM maybe such things as the x box are to blame for the lack of youngsters coming through, kids dont play football 24/7 anymore. or maybe the fact your kids cant play in parks on thier own because of too many nutters.

Hi K&D

Goes back to a thread raised by Howie, when we were disscusing how schools are making money by selling off their palying fields as housing development, so limiting the kids play areas.

So there is no practise area unless they become members of a club. Then you have the pressure from parents on "Hoofing" the ball up the field - Route 1 football -.

We do need to get  back to the basics, as the continentals have done.

Thai

[kelly58]

England are to change their shirts. The three lions will be replaced with three tampons to represent the worst b****y period they've ever had !!!.

[malc d]

net-traveller - 2007-11-23 10:54 AM

 

It's a sad fact that when sport changed to a business the attitude changed from playing the game to win at all costs.

You can see this everywhere including the Olympics - the recent revelations of Marion Jones as an example.

The players won't get out of bed of a morning without a guarantee of money.

 

As I see it the only way to get our displeasure across is to vote with our feet. Stop paying the huge ticket prices. Stop paying the TV packages.

Support your local league. They need the money.

 

I don't suppose it'll ever happen but .....

 

;-)

 

 

The most influential / powerful people in football are the supporters but they don't seem to realise it.

 

....and how about a completely new approach;

 

Chelsea players don't all come from Chelsea.

Manchester United players don't all come from Manchester.

etc. etc

 

So why should all England players come from England !!!

 

 

[Guest Syd]

malc d - 2007-11-23 4:41 PM

 

 

So why should all England players come from England !!!

 

 

The short answer is they probably don't they are probably all registered as living in some tax exile place

[KD]

i have been watching the odds with ladbrooks on the next manager all day

fasinating how much the have been changing

cappolo 6-1 this morning now 2-1

martin oneal 2-1 ( forest legend) this morning went right out to 10s now at 7-1

stuart pearce (forest legend) from 33-1 to 20-1

my choice alan shearer 12-1 down to 10-1

benitez was 50-1 now 10-1

[twooks]

Bri, wouldn't dream of suggesting that we have even a quota on foreign players to be honest.

England may have invented the game - if indeed we did - let's face it - it aint rocket science - cave men probably kicked an inflated animals bladder around, tho there is a certain masochism about the offside rule that tends to imply some weird englishman of a certain type may be involved. :->

 

David Ginola has to be one of sexiest in a pair of football shorts - and Gianfranco Zola one of the finest players / sportsmen in a pair of football shorts.

 

The trouble with the youth policy - and it's not new - is that young players are poached from the small clubs - who need the money - so all the talent ends up with the teams with money.

Walcott - Southampton

plus numerous others from small teams who ended up with the likes of Chelsea and Manchester United - who were often never seen again.

buy up the talent - then no-one else can have it.

 

 

 

B-)