Geoff Cole Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Does any one know if it is legal to carry passengers in the back of a motorhome using the sidefacing seats in UK and Europe? I was told when I bought my new camper by the salesman at Brownhills that it was legal, but I am not sure. My camper is a swift Suntor with the rear U shaped lounge. Any advice on this would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Hi Geoff I believe it is, or certainly was, legal though there were/ are some changes that will make it illegal on new vehicles after a certain date that escapes my memory. If you search the forum there was a lot of discussion regarding this and I believe 'designated travelling seats' however I believe I am right in saying that the new/ changed rules are NOT retrospective so if you have a vehicle that was prior to the changes it is still legal though possible not so safe in an accident. Having said that I understand that wearing a seat belt in a sideways seat is dangerous in an accident anyway so it's a bit 'Hobsons choice'. Ours has a sideways mounted lounge seat and I have used it to transport passengers with no seat belts, as I did not have an accident there was no problem but it is for you to consider the safety aspects. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Why are only the cabin crew allowed to sit in rear facing seats and wear full race style harnesses in aeroplanes. The rest of us are allowed to be shreaded by our lap/diagonal belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapple Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Some insurance companies will not cover passengers not using seat belts. Unfortunately I have lost the link to this item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 That's easy Clive. The lap belt we get is simply to prevent our bodies flying around in a crash landing and injuring one of the flight crew. But back to the topic, I don't believe there is any current legislation against carrying unbelted passengers in seats facing in any direction although travelling unbelted is generally regarded as risky. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 GeoffPart of the answer will turn on the year your Suntor was made. In recent vans, it should be the case that any unbelted seats are labelled "not travel seats" or similar. However, such labels are often stuck on, so might have fallen off/ been removed. If the seats are/were so designated, they are illegal for passengers to use whether or not the labels are still there.On older vans the seats were not designated in this way, so unbelted seats can, legally, be used as travel seats. However, it may be wise to check with your insurer whether they would accept that passengers using these seats would be covered by your policy. It may also be wise to check your payload limits, since adults weigh in generally at 70Kg or more each, so your passengers, plus possible extra luggage, may tip a normally laden van into being overweight, especially as regards the rear axle load limit.As already stated, there is a well known safety consideration in using such seats. Do also bear in mind that if an accident resulted in injury to any of your passengers, a civil case might be brought against the driver, irrespective of the legailty of using the seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 This earlier forum thread may be useful: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=8769&posts=6 It includes a link to a ukmotorhomes.net entry that seems to cover the matter pretty well. I'm not sure what a 'designated travel seat' actually is. My 2005 Hobby has two inwards-facing settees neither of which has any form of safety-belt. But one settee has a green sticker fixed to it indicating that it's a 'travel seat', while the other has a red sticker on it indicating that it is not. Presumably there is some logic behind this, but I've never been able to decide what it is. Perhaps it's an unfathomable German joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronkle Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 From the Department of Transport web site: D. My vehicle has sideways-facing seats There has never been a legal requirement to fit seat belts in sideways-facing seats. The human body bends forward from the waist - it does not bend sideways and the potential for internal and spinal injury is high therefore if a passenger is secured with a seat belt in a sideways-facing seat. For similar reasons, the type-approval standard for child seats and boosters does not include fixing them in a sideways-facing seat. A child who is required to use child seats/boosters (ie all those under 135 cms in height who are also under 12 years of age) cannot travel in a sideways-facing seat. A child who needs to use a child seats or boosters must use a forward or rearward facing seat only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronkle Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 From the Department of Transport web site: D. My vehicle has sideways-facing seats There has never been a legal requirement to fit seat belts in sideways-facing seats. The human body bends forward from the waist - it does not bend sideways and the potential for internal and spinal injury is high therefore if a passenger is secured with a seat belt in a sideways-facing seat. For similar reasons, the type-approval standard for child seats and boosters does not include fixing them in a sideways-facing seat. A child who is required to use child seats/boosters (ie all those under 135 cms in height who are also under 12 years of age) cannot travel in a sideways-facing seat. A child who needs to use a child seats or boosters must use a forward or rearward facing seat only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 cronkle - 2007-12-28 9:21 AM From the Department of Transport web site: D. My vehicle has sideways-facing seats There has never been a legal requirement to fit seat belts in sideways-facing seats. The human body bends forward from the waist - it does not bend sideways and the potential for internal and spinal injury is high therefore if a passenger is secured with a seat belt in a sideways-facing seat. For similar reasons, the type-approval standard for child seats and boosters does not include fixing them in a sideways-facing seat. A child who is required to use child seats/boosters (ie all those under 135 cms in height who are also under 12 years of age) cannot travel in a sideways-facing seat. A child who needs to use a child seats or boosters must use a forward or rearward facing seat only. But if you look at question A this totaly contradicts this, i.e. if there are no seat belts child does not need to use them http://www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/campaigns/childcarseats/faq08.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronkle Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 colin - 2007-12-28 5:20 PM cronkle - 2007-12-28 9:21 AM From the Department of Transport web site: D. My vehicle has sideways-facing seats There has never been a legal requirement to fit seat belts in sideways-facing seats. The human body bends forward from the waist - it does not bend sideways and the potential for internal and spinal injury is high therefore if a passenger is secured with a seat belt in a sideways-facing seat. For similar reasons, the type-approval standard for child seats and boosters does not include fixing them in a sideways-facing seat. A child who is required to use child seats/boosters (ie all those under 135 cms in height who are also under 12 years of age) cannot travel in a sideways-facing seat. A child who needs to use a child seats or boosters must use a forward or rearward facing seat only. But if you look at question A this totaly contradicts this, i.e. if there are no seat belts child does not need to use them http://www.thinkroadsafety.gov.uk/campaigns/childcarseats/faq08.htm The whole site is worth reading. The main point is that sideways facing seats can be used legal but using restraints in them is not acceptable. The other thing to watch is that you do not carry more people than you are registered to carry- your insurance company would have something to say about it in the event of an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Cole Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 Many thanks for all your input on this subject. I do not usually need to carry passengers in the back of my camper but in the event of having to for short distances, its important to know the legal position and also to take on board the payload and insurance issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panagah Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 sorry to add to this what might seem a silly question. If my good lady wants to get up and pass a motion whilst in motion, although very silly, is it illegal? After all when you are on a coach you can do so and walk around can you not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philman Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I think the generally accepted rule is that if there are seat belts fitted they must be used, Once all seat belts are in use any additional passengers may travel without restraint. If there are no seat belts in the rear, passengers may travel there provided the belts in the cab are in use. It is not permissible for the passenger seat in the cab to be unoccupied and to carry unbelted passengers in the habitation area. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 panagah: The following link summarises current UK seat-belt regulations: http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/seatbelts.htm As I read it, when a motorhome's front passenger-seat has a safety-belt fitted to it, then a passenger occupying that seat must wear that belt at all times while the vehicle is in motion. So, if your wife chooses to un-belt herself while you are travelling, this would be contrary to the regulations. Being over the age of 14, the responsibility (and any repercussions) for failing to conform to the regulations would be hers (not yours as the driver). This also now seems to be true for 'over age 14' passengers on coaches fitted with seat-belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.