Tomo3090 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Just suppose Harry Potter wanted to buy a motorhome. It was very dear and he realised he could save a few thousand by getting his mum, Mrs. Potter, who is disabled, to buy it for him and she could get it VAT free. He would give her the money and take her to the shop. She would place the order and give the shopkeeper the cash. Harry would get his name on the insurance so he could drive his mum around. Being a dutiful son, Harry would then drive it home for her and even keep the van up his path. As a thank you for his devotion to his disabled mum she then gifted the van to Harry. Would anyone know if the Potters had broken the law and if so what might the wizards' council do to Harry and/or his mum. Or have they discovered a magic formula and all live happily ever after in a new Cheyenne! :-D All characters are fictional and any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely co-incidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 who's name is on the registration document - can she even drive it - has it been adapted if necessary don't mess with the VAT man - makes Voldemort look like a little kuddly kitten :D *-) B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Does Mrs Potter have to have her name on it ? Even non disabled people have trouble driving them so poor elderly Mrs Potter I should imagine would also. Of Course you could always make the fictitional story real . Mr Harry Potter just might want to do this for his mum in real life . I can't see nothing wrong with taking poor old Mrs Potter away now and then . I dont think that it states that Poor old Mrs Potter has to be in it 24/7 now if Mrs Potter took advatnage of the free Tax disc thats a different story . So Mr H Potter and Mrs Potter could occasionally holiday together . Harry could run his mum to the school for Hogwarts and everyone would be happy . I Think :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think you would fined the Vat man at Harry,s door in rag time, Mrs Potter got it VAT EXEMPT (not free),due to her disability and her Name being on the log book, and I think you will find the Vat Man has already thought about people( Muggles) trying to pull a fast one likings to that one mentioned, somewhere there will be a clause about it being Vat Exempt whilst in the ownership of Mrs Potter for ex number of years and if sold part exed within that period Vat would become payable. if thats not the case I think Mrs Potter will have a long list of new friends with shopping lists . 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 In the guidelines of the Mobility allowance Mrs. Potter would not need to drive, but the vehicle would be intended for her benefit - whether this is ever checked i don't know........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I know someone who did something very similar and it worked well with no comebacks. I think you might call it legitimate tax avoidance rather than tax evasion. The only provisos were that you had to pay to have it visibly 'modified' in a such a way as to allow the disabled person to access and use the vehicle - in this case (removable) wheelchair clamps and ramps had to be fitted. You also had to sign a declaration that the vehicle was indeed for the benefit of the registered disabled person and that he/she would be the principle beneficiary of the vehicle and it's facilities. Dealers are more afraid of the VAT man that they are of you so expect them to not agree to anything dodgy and in return you should only divulge information that is specifically requested and be sure not to tell any provable porkies. You will need a letter from the persons GP (or maybe a qualified OT) confirming their disabled status and it helps if they have a blue badge disabled parking entitlement as backup documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 As I understand it from our suppliers, if the vehicle has some kind of adaptation - even just a step & grab handle - it can belong to a family member, as long as it's sometimes used to transport Mrs Potter. How often it's used this way isn't specified, but Mrs P must be a wheelchair-user, at least sometimes, not just any old blue-badge holder (doctor's note may be needed). There's no magic to this, so it's perfectly OK to do even if you're not yet a quailfied wizard. My dealer said: "If you visit www.hmce.gov.uk and look up Notice 701/59 you will read there is no stipulated percentage of time your mother has to use the vehicle. We as a dealer have to use due diligence to be satisfied regarding the relationship and justify her use." Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Grumpy Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I think that you will find that there is a court case on-going at the moment. Some disabled athletes were allegedly purchasing high performance cars, without the VAT, and after a short time removing the disabled controls and selling the vehicles at a profit. Not quite the same scenario but pretty close. They were reputedly running what amounted to a full time second hand car dealership so for a one off purchase it may be worth a go, but you still need a genuinely disabled mum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Mrs. Potter is in receipt of Mobility allowance but she wouldn't be using this to pay for the van. Neither would anyone be claiming for the road fund tax to be exempt. Even the vehicle wouldn't need adapting to any great degree as Mrs. Potter could get in through the cab door. And I suppose the half hour she was in the van to get her home could construe "useage"! But sadly as with all magic it is best left for those who are trained in the black arts! She'll just have to stick with the broomstick! (Sorry Mum!) >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 A friend of mine bought a car to drive her husband around as he was on mobility. She could not use it for herself, when ever she went out with the car she had to have him in the car with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Highe Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 If you can afford the time to read it, here is the chapter and verse: http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageImport_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000128&propertyType=document Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Here is the most important part of the rules I think, taken from the link that Peter has posted above. 2.1 What are the conditions for zero-rating? You can zero rate the sale of an adapted motor vehicle when the following conditions are met: Condition Description Further information 1 The vehicle seating no more than 12 people must be supplied to a disabled person who normally uses a wheelchair or stretcher to be mobile paragraph 3.1 2 The vehicle must be adapted to enable the disabled wheelchair (or stretcher) user to enter, drive or otherwise travel in the vehicle section 3 3 The adapted vehicle must be for the domestic or personal use of the disabled wheelchair or stretcher user paragraph 2.7 4 You hold documents to show eligibility section 12 If you supply a charity you should read section 7. If you supply certain eligible bodies you should read section 8. top ^ 2.2 What is a wheelchair user? For the purposes of this relief a wheelchair user is anyone who has to use a wheelchair (electrically powered or otherwise) in order to be mobile. A disabled person with a degenerative condition, such as multiple sclerosis, who does not need to use a wheelchair all the time, but only when the condition requires it, also qualifies as a wheelchair user. A person who only occasionally uses a wheelchair such as: * when visiting a shopping centre or gardens; or * temporarily because he has a broken leg is not considered to normally use a wheelchair and is not eligible for the relief. top ^ 2.3 What is a wheelchair? A wheelchair is a chair for invalids on wheels which is manually or mechanically propelled. A mobility scooter is not a wheelchair for VAT purposes. top ^ 2.4 What is a mobility scooter? A scooter: * is mechanically propelled; * has a central steering column; * has a maximum speed of 4 miles per hour for pavement use; and * is generally only used outside the home. top ^ 2.5 Who is a stretcher user? For the purposes of this relief a stretcher user is anyone who has to use a stretcher in order to be transported. top ^ 2.6 Can a family member purchase the adapted vehicle? Yes, provided that it is purchased for the personal use of the disabled wheelchair user. top ^ 2.7 Domestic or personal use To qualify for zero-rating the adapted vehicle must be for the domestic or personal use of the disabled wheelchair user. This may also include vehicles that are used by the disabled wheelchair user in his work capacity provided this is incidental to the vehicle’s main use as a private vehicle. You cannot zero rate vehicles supplied to businesses regardless of who uses them or how they have been adapted – for example, you cannot zero rate an adapted vehicle that will be used as a taxi. top ^ 2.8 Can an unadapted motor vehicle be zero-rated? No. You can only zero rate the supply of an adapted motor vehicle to a disabled wheelchair user. See section 7 if you supply an unadapted vehicle to a charity. See section 8 if you supply an unadapted vehicle to an eligible body. Adaptations to a motor vehicle can be zero-rated - see section 11. top ^ 3. Adapted motor vehicles top ^ 3.1 What is an eligible adapted motor vehicle? It is any motor vehicle (such as a car, light van, multi-passenger vehicle (MPV) or motor home) that is: * designed, or substantially and permanently adapted for the carriage of a disabled wheelchair user – see paragraphs 3.2 to 3.6; and * has a carrying capacity of no more than 12 people – see paragraph 3.7. top ^ 3.2 What does ‘adapted for the carriage of a disabled wheelchair/stretcher user’ mean? A motor vehicle is adapted for the carriage of a disabled wheelchair user if it is: * adapted to suit his specific needs; and the adaptation: * allows him to enter and travel in the vehicle whilst seated in the wheelchair or on the stretcher; * allows him to enter, travel in or leave the vehicle; * enables him to drive the vehicle; or * allows a wheelchair to be carried on or in the vehicle. top ^ 3.3 What is a ‘permanent’ adaptation? An adaptation is permanent if it can be used for as long as the disabled wheelchair user requires it. Generally the adaptation would require welding or bolting to the vehicle. top ^ 3.4 What is a ‘substantial’ adaptation? A substantial adaptation enables a wheelchair user to use a vehicle which he could not use before it was adapted. For example, a spinner device, such as a knob on a steering wheel, may not seem substantial to an able bodied person but it would be substantial for a disabled wheelchair user who could not otherwise drive the vehicle. From my reading of that lot it would appear that Harry Potter can indeed buy a motorhome VAT free (VAT exempt) on the basis that it is permanently modified to enable his wheelchair using Mother to travel in it but only if it is used for her convenience. To buy a motorhome (or any other vehicle for that matter) with adaptations for a disabled person so as to qualify for VAT exemtion but then to use it for other persons' benfit than the disabled person is illegal and the VAT becomes payable. D. 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