Emission Crap

[michele]

Help if I leave my house on Friday and drive to the tunnel so leave at junction 7 M11 and continue to the M25 will I be in the imission zone ?

How do I pay ? what do I have to do if anything .

Cheers

[GJH]

No part of the M25 is in the Emission Zone. Also, at the moment, only heavy diesel-engined vehicles exceeding 12 tonnes Gross Vehicle Weight are covered.

 

See HERE for when your MH might be affected and HERE for full details.

 

Graham

[BGD]

Michele -

 

As I understand it (others with more detailed knowledge please correct this post if I've got it wrong), Motorhomes up to 3.5 tonnes registered new after 1.1.2002 aren't going to be affected at all.

Those Motorhomes of up to 3.5 tonnes registered as new prior to 1.1.2002 are still not affected by any need to comply until 4th October 2010.

 

So if you have an MH of up to 3.5 tonnes, older than 1.1.2002, you've now got another 2.5 years to get your emissions checked, and if necessary then get any mods to the engine/exhaust system done to get your exhaust emissions clean enough to be certified as meeting the Euro 3 standard.

So long as it's certified as meeting Euro 3 standard by 4.10.2010 you won't get charged anything for driving your MH into the LEZ from then on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GJH]

BGD - 2008-02-05 12:05 AM

So if you have an MH of up to 3.5 tonnes, older than 1.1.2002, you've now got another 2.5 years to get your emissions checked, and if necessary then get any mods to the engine/exhaust system done to get your exhaust emissions clean enough to be certified as meeting the Euro 3 standard.

So long as it's certified as meeting Euro 3 standard by 4.10.2010 you won't get charged anything for driving your MH into the LEZ from then on.

That's true for older vehicles:

a) if modification is possible

b) if the cost isn't prohibitive for the individual owner.

 

The only vehicles exempted because modification is not possible are those built before 1 January 1973. There is no exemption for cases where the cost of modification is high. Also, whilst the scheme is aimed mainly at getting rid of commercial vehicles (whose owners will pass the costs of conversion/replacement on to their customers) there is no exemption for privately owned (typically leisure use) vehicles.

 

Even if vehicles cannot be modified or the work would cost too much, at least people who live outside London can avoid the LEZ.

 

However, whilst I fully understand the air quality arguments which the GLA has put forward, I'm disappointed that they haven't exempted the (surely?) very small number of owners of non-compliant MHs who actually live in the LEZ and bought their vehicles in good faith before the LEZ was ever thought of.

 

Graham

[CliveH]

One haulier I know whoes firm owns a fleet of trucks based in the UK and also in France and Belgium who regularly has trucks that go into London/inside the M25 is looking at having his Belgium registered trucks to do the London runs.

 

This is based upon his experience that his EU registered trucks when they enter the London Congestion zone - never pay and never get fined.

 

It will cost him a bit of money to do this but a lot less than £200 a day.

 

 

:-S

[Syd]

What are the bets that this loophole will be closed soon??

[michele]

:D :D :D Cheers guys

[Wingpete]

Next phase of this operation to take cash out of our pockets is, when the summoneses start appearing due to some administrative errors in identifying the offending vehicles, and vehicles in compliance get ticketed, how many long distance travellers will attend courts to fight for justice ?

Very few, as with erroneous parking charges and other London based traffic infringements that are improperly brought by contentious councils employing incompetent wardens and the like , it will be too much trouble to contest the issues, so the Mayor's fighting fund gets bigger, thus enabling him to print and circulate self promoting missives.

That may keep him power until 2020. >:-(

[GJH]

Wingpete - 2008-02-06 4:01 PM

 

Next phase of this operation to take cash out of our pockets is, when the summoneses start appearing due to some administrative errors in identifying the offending vehicles, and vehicles in compliance get ticketed, how many long distance travellers will attend courts to fight for justice ?

Very few, as with erroneous parking charges and other London based traffic infringements that are improperly brought by contentious councils employing incompetent wardens and the like , it will be too much trouble to contest the issues, so the Mayor's fighting fund gets bigger, thus enabling him to print and circulate self promoting missives.

That may keep him power until 2020. >:-(

I don't think this will be the case because the first stage will be a Penalty Charge Notice with a photo of the vehicle as evidence, rather than a court summons.

Just over 3 years ago I received a PCN from TfL alleging that my car had been driven in a bus lane. The photo showed my registration number but a Renault Clio, not my Citroen Berlingo, so I put in a complaint to TfL for breach of the Data Protection Act for using my personal data to accuse me without sufficient checking (i.e. vehicle type).

It took a "robust" phone call with a stroppy manager but, knowing I was in the right, I gave her better than she gave me and the PCN was cancelled.

Not all that much of an arduous exercise to prove TfL wrong - and they have subsequently changed their system to check vehicle type before issuing a PCN.

 

Graham

[colin]

Wingpete - 2008-02-06 4:01 PM

 

Next phase of this operation to take cash out of our pockets is, when the summoneses start appearing due to some administrative errors in identifying the offending vehicles, and vehicles in compliance get ticketed, how many long distance travellers will attend courts to fight for justice ?

Very few, as with erroneous parking charges and other London based traffic infringements that are improperly brought by contentious councils employing incompetent wardens and the like , it will be too much trouble to contest the issues, so the Mayor's fighting fund gets bigger, thus enabling him to print and circulate self promoting missives.

That may keep him power until 2020. >:-(

The fine is £1000 or reduced to £500 if paid within 14days, I think that will ensure any errors are contested!

I had a wrongly issued PCN for congestion charge, took nearly 4 months to sort out, when an apeal is made tfl should stop the 'ramping up' of fine, in my case they didn't, as they had made an aministrive error they stopped proceedings and canceled PCN to save getting egg on their face

[CliveH]

 

 

Wasn't there a chap a year or two back that was a farmer and one of his tractors was supposed to have been in the London Congestion zone?

 

It took him ages to prove that he had not driven hundreds of miles in this tractor to park it inside Red Ken's personal folly.

 

The number of businesses that are moving out of London increases every day. Now no doubt the LEZ will stifle development within the M25 as well.

 

Oh well it's an ill wind that will benefit the SW, Wales and other areas.

 

As for my visiting London - it is easier and cheaper for me to fly to Paris, Brussels or Barcelona from my local airport than it is to get a train into London.

 

But for those tuggers out there in the LEZ (sorry not sure this will help MH owners at all) - I make a prediction, petrol vehicles like Jeeps, Discovery’s, Range Rovers etc that are easily converted to LPG will prove to be very popular.

 

[GJH]

CliveH - 2008-02-07 9:14 AM

The number of businesses that are moving out of London increases every day. Now no doubt the LEZ will stifle development within the M25 as well.

 

Oh well it's an ill wind that will benefit the SW, Wales and other areas.

Could well be a good thing in the long run if that happens.

 

It's about time that governments (of all parties) had the courage to stand up and prevent further development in certain places on the grounds that they are full. We saw the problems that can happen with places with insufficient capacity with the plane accident at Heathrow the other week which resulted in so much flight disruption.

 

We keep hearing about modern electronic communications meaning that location is unimportant so why is there a need for so many companies to be located in London?

 

Graham

[Wingpete]

Staying with those who beat the PCN's, well done, but you are in the minority. I have also successfully challenged and prepared to meet them in court, but they realised that I had no case to answer, even volunteering that the warden had been in the wrong ! But it has been documented in official files that the majority pay up rather than challenge due to distances etc involved in getting into court.

As to the point validly made that development in rural areas is not to be encouraged, I tend to agree, but there has been earlier predents of "new towns" placed in rural areas.

The Governments of the time were very keen to get townies into the new towns, and made all sorts of platitudes to enable it to happen. Remember "let the train take the strain " ? To get us out of cars for the daily commute of 30 miles or so. Then what happened ? Train lines were cut, fares rose dramatically, then privatisation made it even more expensive. So back to the car.

Where can you park the car ? Free ? Not on the road, even if it is outside your home.

Car parks. OK for shoppers, but now the commuters take over the spaces, charges are made.

Just into M&S today. New parking arrangements in force. 2 months ago it was free. Now, £10 to park unless you buy £10 worth of goods. My guess is that commuters will still use it, and pay for £10 of goods on way home. Nothing, so far to help commuters or even shoppers, unless Governments want you to go to out of town centres, like Bluewater, or the many superstores. Wish Red Ken would just ban all motorised traffic, then travel would be easy, by horse & cart.

 

[GJH]

Wingpete - 2008-02-07 5:56 PM

The Governments of the time were very keen to get townies into the new towns, and made all sorts of platitudes to enable it to happen. Remember "let the train take the strain " ? To get us out of cars for the daily commute of 30 miles or so. Then what happened ? Train lines were cut, fares rose dramatically, then privatisation made it even more expensive. So back to the car.

One of the biggest mistakes was the Macmillan government of nearly 50 years ago telling Beeching to design a rail system down to a budget rather than one which would form the basis of the sort of service which is needed these days. That was compounded by the mistake of the Wilson government implementing the Beeching report instead of overturning it. When I was a kid growing up in north Derbyshire there were large goods sidings around - which would be ideal as distribution points for goods to be taken to shops in vans instead of clogging up 150 year old roads and streets with artics.

 

Wingpete - 2008-02-07 5:56 PM

Where can you park the car ? Free ? Not on the road, even if it is outside your home.

Car parks. OK for shoppers, but now the commuters take over the spaces, charges are made.

Just into M&S today. New parking arrangements in force. 2 months ago it was free. Now, £10 to park unless you buy £10 worth of goods. My guess is that commuters will still use it, and pay for £10 of goods on way home.

Another deliberate government policy - the Thatcher government compelled local councils to charge for car parks. The thing is, though, that it is actually much cheaper (especially if more than one is travelling) to use and park a car in a relatively uncongested area like here on Tees-side.

 

Wingpete - 2008-02-07 5:56 PM

Nothing, so far to help commuters or even shoppers, unless Governments want you to go to out of town centres, like Bluewater, or the many superstores. Wish Red Ken would just ban all motorised traffic, then travel would be easy, by horse & cart.

I always avoid using the car in cities wherever possible. For visits to places like York, Newcastle and Durham we use park & ride (we would do the same for Leeds if they had a P&R). When we were staying at Abbey Wood a couple of weeks ago we used the trains and tube all the time. The Southeastern trains (off peak anyway) were clean, on time and relatively cheap. It's the same with buses in places like Edinburgh - wouldn't dream of driving there.

 

Graham