Advice for prospective Ducato owner

[Stewart]

I ordered a new Fiat Ducato-based, coachbuilt motorhome (with the 2.3l engine and 6 speed gearbox) before any major issues were raised about this base vehicle. My understanding is that the Fiat chassis will be delivered to the motorhome manufacturer in March.

 

I find it very disturbing to read all the posts about judder while reversing and water ingress to the engine compartment. As an observer at this stage, it is difficult for me to judge how serious these issues are.

 

I would welcome any suggestions about what I might do to minimise the risk or are these problems so bad that I should consider cancelling the order and just forfeit my £2k deposit?

[Way2Go]

Speaking as the proud owner of a Ducato I've enjoyed every minute I've spent in her and wouldn't swap her for the world.

Any new vechicle has teething problems and Fiat has started addressing those mentioned elsewhere.

I guess it might come down to are you going to listen to every sound it makes, inspect every crevice for faults, constantly badger the supplier with complaints or are you going to get out on the open road and have some fun.

I appreciate that's now opened me up for a tirate of complaints and abuse from fellow members but I don't care.  The sun is out, Spring is on the way so get out there and have some fun.

Taxi for W2G . . . . :-)

[donna miller]

That's a sensible piece of advice W2Go, vehicles from the most basic skoda, to the prestige of Rolls Royce can have problems, but that doesn't mean the entire production of Ducatos will have reversing problems.

 

A faulty batch of gearboxes (where the components are made outside Fiats factory) will obviously rear it's head as a major fault with all Ducatos simply because everybody reports the faults, but never seem to praise the good.

 

I had the same worry with my MGF, everyone said not to buy one because of the head gasket problems, and yes many people did have gasket failure, but many more have not. I was even advised by a suit and tie salesman to go for a Lotus Elize instead of the MGF, because of said problems, he looked such a fool when I pointed out that Lotus fitted the Rover K series engine in the Elize up until Rover went bust, they then changed to Toyota.

 

What I'm trying to say is sit back,relax and count the days untill your new van arrives, any problems after that will be sorted under warranty.

[LordThornber]

Isn't it funny, (to quote Brian Kirby), how differently we see things. Our Ducato's, 2, 1 from 2000 & 1 from 2003 have been nigh on faultless apart from the odd recall. Some of you may be aware we are in the process of choosing our next van for purchase in approx 12 months and we had no qualms about another Fiat/Peugeot. Until the gearbox caper...

 

So what? I hear some say, well our shortlist consists of 2 Fiats & 1 Peugeot and I can't deny the thought of spending 40K plus and then possibly having to spend time in the garage with a known fault isn't good, to put it mildly. As I have said in an early posting, lets hope it's sorted for everyone by the time our purchase is made.

 

W2G, you and I are on the same hymn sheet about getting out there and enjoy but I believe when you haven't actually made your purchase yet, this subject is not one for the faint hearted.

 

In my ever so humble opinion...

 

Martyn

[Way2Go]

LordThornber - 2008-02-13 3:51 PM Isn't it funny, (to quote Brian Kirby), how differently we see things. Our Ducato's, 2, 1 from 2000 & 1 from 2003 have been nigh on faultless apart from the odd recall. Some of you may be aware we are in the process of choosing our next van for purchase in approx 12 months and we had no qualms about another Fiat/Peugeot. Until the gearbox caper... So what? I hear some say, well our shortlist consists of 2 Fiats & 1 Peugeot and I can't deny the thought of spending 40K plus and then possibly having to spend time in the garage with a known fault isn't good, to put it mildly. As I have said in an early posting, lets hope it's sorted for everyone by the time our purchase is made. W2G, you and I are on the same hymn sheet about getting out there and enjoy but I believe when you haven't actually made your purchase yet, this subject is not one for the faint hearted. In my ever so humble opinion... Martyn

Yep, I totally agree.  Having made the purchase there ain't a lot I can do about it apart from getting the recalls done when requested.

Thinking about buying one at the moment?  Well, that IS a different viewpoint.

To be honest, who buys a chassis then decides what habitation to bolt on the back?  Surely, most people fall in love with the design and layout and only afterwards do they say - "Hey, well I never thought I'd ever own a Fiat"

I can honestly say that knowing what I know now, I'd STILL buy the same model we have put 5,000 miles on and still enjoy every mile.

[Geoff Cole]

Hi Stewart,

No do not loose your deposit I am sure you will love your new camper The new chassis is much more stable than the old one with a lot less body roll, and far nicer cab layout. hopefully the recalls will be carried out by the time you get yours. Mine is based on the x250 chassis with the 2.2 100 multijet it is a dream to drive and I have not had any problems with the engine gearbox or reversing.

I have just put another 800 miles on the clock last week, making the total milage just over 7000mls in the first year at an average fuel consumption of about 25mpg.

I have had the recalls carried out locally but that did not include sealing the windscreen scuttle. The Fiat engine irrigation problem I have fixed myself and added extra drains on the scuttle as per colin friers solution (Feb MMM) I have had a few teething troubles with the camper conversion over the last year mostly minor which I fixed myself (my dealer is a boat trip and a long drive away) and have relocated the waste water tank raising it 5" so that it clears the ferry ramp at low tide, and re-routed the waste plumbing so that it does not run uphill to the tank. We love our camper and it does exactly what it says on the tin, we love the time we spend in it and enjoy it to the full.

I am sure you will enjoy yours just as much as we do.Would I buy one now? definitely but with the recalls carried out.

good luck regards Geoff

[dshague]

i to have ordered a new van for first march , cannot  Waite.

have had a lot of sleepless nights reading all the posts

and all the problems ,then thought how many vans are out there and how many are on here with problems .

went for it...  if the van as to go in so be it .

its a very nice to read  w2g and the rest of these post

thanks ...to all

[Keith T]

We have the new Fiat 2.3/130 on our Burstner, and took delivery last July, having now done about 4500 miles. Yes, there have been water problems on the engine, and they are being sorted. Other than that, so far, there's nothing of great concern, and I would say no more or les likely than any other make.

I guess one thing is to ensure there's a good Fiat agent nearby, and in my experince they vary hugely - when we lived in Cornwall, the main Fiat dealer down there was the worth (of any manufacturer) I have ever come across. However, with teh Burstner, I think we have been Ok in that the same dealer has the Burstner and Fiat serrvicing.

The van is an absolute joy to drive, the engine extremely quiet, the only thing I find fuel consumption not very brillaint (about 24/25mpg), but the van drives beston 'fast roads' at 65/70 mph so perhaps I can't expect much better...!

I would say as previous contributors, stay with it, go out and enjoy it, and just ensure the servicing and any recalls are done on time.

[colinfrier]

Hi

I have a Burstner Solano T700 which I collected last August 2007 it has now covered some 8,000 kilometers with out a problem,I did of course have the water problem and the rustyes engine you have ever seen but I fixed that in a day.I have still to test for the reversing judder and I find that a matter of considerable concern we will see.

On the positive side the vehicle as stated by others is a joy to drive :quite responsive engine,light positive steering,26mpg on 7.2m and 3500kg,relaxed cruising at 70+,many nice cab features I could go on.

Previously I had a LWB panel van conversion by Globecar 2006 on a Citreon 2.9 chassis it was fine but the 2.3 is so much better than the 2.9.

It is such a pity that Fiat and their partners don't get ther act together and respond to customers in a prompt and positive manor.

With the problems solved this is a world class van and when you do the price comparison must come out as number 1

Come on Fiat you are loosing sales with all the adverse publicity

Do I regret buying it NO

 

Colin Frier

[Ukase]

Stewart,

 

I think it would be unwise to ignore the information on recalls, driving problems and faults posted about the new Ducato.

 

Refer to:-

 

www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-34317,html

www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-38100,html

www.fiatforum.com/ducato

 

It may also be worthwhile e-mailing Andy Stothert about the information he has collected on this subject and talking to Dave Newell.

 

At least I would want the dealer to put in writing that all known recalls and fault fixes have been completed before accepting the vehicle. I take the point of the postings by WaytoGo and Donna Miller but if it all goes pair shaped are they going to help get any problems resolved.

 

KB

[Miami]

Geoff Cole - 2008-02-13 7:20 PM  The Fiat engine irrigation problem I have fixed myself and added extra drains on the scuttle as per colin friers solution (Feb MMM) I have had a few teething troubles with the camper conversion over the last year mostly minor which I fixed myself (my dealer is a boat trip and a long drive away) and have relocated the waste water tank raising it 5" so that it clears the ferry ramp at low tide, and re-routed the waste plumbing so that it does not run uphill to the tank. We love our camper and it does exactly what it says on the tin, we love the time we spend in it and enjoy it to the full. I am sure you will enjoy yours just as much as we do.Would I buy one now? definitely but with the recalls carried out. good luck regards Geoff

What a delight to hear someone (Geoff) who has the guts to put the problems right on his MH without resorting to moaning about everyone connected to the industry and outside (including the government!).

We don't have a Fiat and our Renault has given us no trouble at all. There were one or two issues with habitiation area but I too put them right. Our Truma boiler was corrected by Truma free of charge and the fridge corrected by the dealer. We have enjoyed 15,000 miles of great fun in the 18 months we have had it. Off again next week!

Any new vehicle is bound to have a problem so accept that this may be the case. Get on with it and get out there and enjoy and don't listen to the doom mongers!

[diydoolittle]

I have a new peugeot with the ingress problem. The van is a dream to drive responsive and more economical than the previous incarnation. I have been frustrated however by the dealer and peugeots less than helpful attitude to the problem and 7 months later have now had it fixed. However the fix did not work and the problem is still there. I do not understand how they cannot put this right, how hard can it be to stop a leak??

If I were in the position of purchasing a new van I would definately want some assurances that everything is as it should be and that all recalls campaigns and whatever else they want to call them are attended to BEFORE you take possesion. I would not let it stop me but I would with knowledge aforethought take steps to prevent being left in the lurch. Perhaps people who have not had to fight every step of the way to get them to even look at the van in question would think differently of the moaners were they in their position. :-(

Would I cancel............... No. But be proactive you know what the problems are!

[Miami]

I forgot to mention that we also had a leak at the front and the water dripped in onto the dashboard. I decided that it was coming from the joint where the roof joined onto the cab. I stripped out the sealant and replaced it with flexible bathroom compound. It took me two hours and we have had no more leaks. Decided I could make a better job of it than than either the dealer or the factory. No! Leaks shouldn't happen but they do.

Hey! Life's too short to keep moaning and worrying if your new motor home will have something wrong with it. Check it out before you get it and I bet you will be amongst the thousands who love their purchase and don't ever moan about it on forums like this. 

[catinou]

We have a Fiat Ducato based Autotrail Dakota and could not be more pleased with it. We had the water ingress problem and contacted Fiat Customer services in the UK - they could not have been more helpful. OK we had to contact them but they kept us up to speed with progress on the "fix". We knew that the tray had to be manufactured for the biggest engine (3 litre) and were told it would be ready to be fitted in January.

 

Fiat contacted our designated Fiat dealer direct (not the one we purchased from as they had let us down so badly several times) and they called us to arrange fitting and full remedy (including resealing etc.). This was done yesterday, under warranty, and we picked the MH up at 3 pm. At 4 pm we had a call from Fiat in Milan to ask what we thought of the dealer and asking if there was any way they (dealer and Fiat) could improve their service. We were impressed....

 

We are very pleased with our MH and particularly the performance and fuel consumption of the Fiat - our only advice is to go for it and enjoy - if you have any problems - contact Fiat and they will sort things out - just have your chassis number handy and be prepared to listen to them as well as expect them to listen to you. It works.

 

Have fun.... B-)

[AndyStothert]

Knowing what I know now I would run away from any motorhome which has a Fiat, Peugeot or Citroen base vehicle sat underneath it right now.

 

Yes, it drives superbly. Can't argue with that. In fact I'm one of the people who said that it was the best base vehicle of the lot, and potentially it is.

But it is also flawed, in quite a major way.

Ours has now done 8000 miles, of which probably a little over 7999 have been in the forward direction.

Unfortunately we found ourselves on a steep narrow road in the hills last July and because a wagon towing a small trailer was approaching in the opposite direction I had to reverse it for about 500 yards up a steep hill with bends in it. The juddering was horrendous. During which time the gearbox suffered internal damage. Synchro on second gear went missing, and this was probably caused because second gear is adjacent to reverse and all the juddering caused some contact.

What bothers me (and it should bother everyone) is that this will probably happen every time one of these vehicles gets itself in this situation.

It may not happen until you've had it four years, but once is all it takes to create mechanical and financial havoc.

Also it took Fiat six weeks to locate a new gearbox, and they have since been very evasive about the ongoing juddering problem.

It has been suggested that an easy fix isn't on the horizon, so I would think avoiding these vehicles, no matter how hard it is, will be the best course of action until this issue is resolved.

Of course if any mug wants to buy mine..........I'm open to offers

[tp002c784tp002c784tp]

When I first saw the Talbot Highwayman I eventualy bought I entered the vehicle from the rear and did not know what the base vehicle was the layout of this vehicle more than ticked the boxes of our ideal vehicle, Then I found out It was a Talbot ahhh I hated Talbots with a passion, the salesman assured me that it was a cracking vehicle ( He would of course)

We bought it and we had twelve cracking years with it , yes we had problems but they where minor and I always enjoyed driving it.

Next was the Renault Master Lunar Telstar Loved it joy to drive never got sick of driving then lost it in the floods, Always said I would never by a FIAT because of all the trouble that they had with there previous model Ducato 15 2.8jtd but when I started looking for a replacement for the Renault I wanted nothing but a Renault, The wife wanted an end lounge and did not matter what the vehicle was, I have never seen such a load of rubbish that dealers tried to palm off and the prices I could not believe the prices that they wanted for 4 and 5 year old vehicles.

 

Then we came across the Lunar Roadstar 620 did not take much notice of the drive train as the wife was exited at the very roomy END Lounge and fell in love with this vehicle I then realised it was a FIAT brand new but old model Ducato 15, I had much thought about this vehicle and realised that the problems that people had with this model fiat where ironed out many years ago and it has been a much tried and tested and money making vehicle for Fiat, So I bit the bullet and bought it at much reduced price than some of the second hand vehicles.

 

My point to all the drivel above ( as some people may say ) that Fiat have got it wrong again, the water ingress they had with my model they eventually got it right but you would think with all there previous troubles that they would have made sure it did not happen with this New Model.

 

I certainly not even think of buying this model Fiat for at least a couple of years until all the teething troubles have been ironed out.

 

Terry

 

[tonyishuk]

Stewart - 2008-02-13 2:03 PM

 

I ordered a new Fiat Ducato-based, coachbuilt motorhome (with the 2.3l engine and 6 speed gearbox) before any major issues were raised about this base vehicle. My understanding is that the Fiat chassis will be delivered to the motorhome manufacturer in March.

 

I find it very disturbing to read all the posts about judder while reversing and water ingress to the engine compartment. As an observer at this stage, it is difficult for me to judge how serious these issues are.

 

I would welcome any suggestions about what I might do to minimise the risk or are these problems so bad that I should consider cancelling the order and just forfeit my £2k deposit?

 

If I were in your position I would take some legal advice, Trading standards or similar. Expressing your concern and see what the position is if the vehicle does have faults.

 

You may be one of the lucky ones with no problems, but on the other hand ?

 

Fortunately, or otherwise, any technical forum (cars, hifi, computers, motohomes, etc, )will always manage to convince you that there is major problem with your goods. A very vocal minority will be present (and rightly so) but in all honestly the other ninety five plus percent probably have no problems.

 

I do not have the language skills to read other country forums, but would be interested to know if this is a continental problem as well.

 

Anyone ?

 

Rds

 

Just to add, that it is a quiet time of the year, come spring and summer, a lot more Fiat based M/homes will be in use and problems may come home to roost with Fiat. Our continental neighbours will be the first to complain if they cannot reverse up the Alps.

 

 

[AndyStothert]

The problem seems to be that very few owners take their pride and joy into steep places, so I would say that 20 of us from such small sample of motorcaravanners who see this forum, and the patterns of use, is actually am unexpectedly large number, and not a vociferous minority.

After 8 months of ownership, collating a collection of complaints from other owners, and driving so many of these vans for the magazine tests I can now say with some certainty that there is an endemic design fault which needs rectifying.

If you do buy one and it proves to be defective then can I respectfully suggest that you have got exactly what you deserve.

Harsh maybe, but I wish somebody had done all this research before we bought ours.

[bigal55]

AndyStothert - 2008-02-16 9:23 PM

 

The problem seems to be that very few owners take their pride and joy into steep places, so I would say that 20 of us from such small sample of motorcaravanners who see this forum, and the patterns of use, is actually am unexpectedly large number, and not a vociferous minority.

your probably right andy,5mths, 3000m, only reversed it on the flat,i,m going to put it to the test this weekend.

 

with the water ingress fiat didn,t even acknowledge their was a problem until on the advice of trading standards i threatened my dealer with legal action,suddenly the dealer,swift, fiat, where in contact, the upshot is i now have a promise from fiat that any engine bay corrosion, will be fixed even if it is out of warranty, how many of the self fixers have got that.

 

i am also concerned, like you about spares, iv,e twice had a problem with the engine management warning light coming on,egr valve, iv,e been waiting since 9.11.07. to get it sorted, it goes in AGAIN on thursday for a software fix so we will see.

 

unlike you this is my ist mh, long time tugger, and i,m amazed at the amount of people on this forum who find it acceptable that a purchase of £30000+ should have faults that they should fix themselves, yet would scream at comet etc if there £20 microwave didn,t work.

 

before any of you start having a go,mh are not complicated,iv,e worked for 35yrs in aerospace, half at rolls royce, but if i was getting on a plane and saw a leak from a engine i,d tell the pilot, not get the spanners out. :D

[colinfrier]

Hi

I have fixed my water ingress problem rather than wait months/years for Fiat to come up with part solution while watching my £45k investment being ruined.

It cost under £10 and took less than a day never mind the endless phone calls, dealer visits,high blood preasure, etc etc.

I agree Fiat should take all problems far more seriousley and deal with them in a timeley manor appart from the reversing problem the other problems I know of are all easily resolved if Fiat are minded to do so.

Fiat and ther partners are shooting themselves in the foot because it's a great van drive one and you will agree.

Come on Fiat admit your mistakes and fix them Pronto.

Colin

[bigal55]

i agree and have taken the steps you have to protect my investment, but i will still complain despite the objections of some, fiat have only done the recalls because of the pressure put on them by owners and the mh converters, who had been the recipient of complaints from mh owners.

fiat are not alone, my wife has a vauxhall,4yrs old, 30000m,gear linkage worn out.

garage" we,ve done a few of these they have now beefed it up"

 

vauxhall must have realised there was a problem and quietly beefed the linkage up without recalling older cars, they got away with it because there isn,t a forum like this one where owners can complain and find out if other owners have the same problem

[dshague]

have been told that all new vans arriving now have a water ingress cover fitted .bet they have. allso told that if its not fitted then you can be waiting weeks

[Rayjsj]

I wouldn't forgo my 2k deposit, but i would certainly go and have a chat to your dealer and tell him about your concerns, push him for an extended warranty on the problems mentioned, get your worries and any extra warranty down in black and white and make copies, £30000 + is alot of money to be taking a chance with. :D

[Stewart]

Thanks to everyone who has offered me advice about my new motorhome. All these comments are really useful and have given me more to think about. I will be going to the Birmingham show on Thursday and will see what response I get from the dealer.