Brian Peters Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 can towing a smart car with an a frame damage a smart car, and if so,why do so many people do it? brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peters Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 sorry i clicked my mouse twice,lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 The answer is potentially yes. The reason as I understand it is that some of the transmission is lubricated by an oil pump that is engine driven. No running engine and no regularly replenished lubrication. So it will be OK for a while using the remnant oil left behind, but when that is dispersed what next?. Many people take the risk but also many pull the smart car on a trailer. Brian James for example make one specifically for the smart car. Its your money and your risk and your decision. Should add that its easier to reverse the trailer than an "A" frame. Good luck C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peters Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 thanks for info clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 This is also a problem with 'conventional' automatics, i.e. those with torque converter, the gearbox lubrication is driven by the input from engine, towing for long distances may damage gearbox, also not recomended for some(if not all) 4x4s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Hi Brian I towed a Smart on an A frame. I did a lot of research into the possible problems first. I was told by MB that I could not, but they could not give me any reason why I should not, except it says so in the handbook. I asked the questions on many forums (but not this one) and Smart forums if anyone had had, or new of any problems. I spoke to Towtal who fitted my A frame and since they had been fitting them since the car was branded as a Swatch (many years ago) they had only heard of 2 cases. Both of the cases were due to the owners leaving the car in gear and then setting off on tow. I even found the manufacturer of the gearbox for MB and spoke to them. They said it would not cause any problem and the gearbox was bullet proof (their words) and would probaly outlast the life of the car. Bases on the info I collated I purchased a Smart Pulse and during my ownership I towed it over 10,000 miles without any problems whatsoever. Either mechanical or legal ;-) The are many many people towing Smarts on A frames without problems. As you say " why do so many people do it?" They do it because it's a cheap fun car and is easy to tow. Do it. Enjoy it. We did. BTW the oddometer does not increase the miles on the Smart whist being towed. Our Smart had 12,000 mile on the clock, but had actually "covered" nearer 23,000 miles. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Le Thou Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 There has been many heated debate over this subject mainly about the legalities so please,please lets not get into that one, I have a Smart Pulse which I have towed on a specifically designed trailer but have recently sold the trailer and now use a braked A frame bought from the very helpful "Car-a-Tow" , it's easier, lighter to tow and much cheaper. I feel very comfortable with the A frame so it's whatever is your preference, finally I would never recommend towing any vehicle on an unbraked frame and certainly wouldn't touch the cheap and nasty A Frames usually found on Ebay. Apart from being totally illegal they are dangerous. Have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 If this is any help to you Brian. I have a Mitsubishi Colt CZ2 car which is built in the Smart factory in Holland and has all the same running gear as the Smartfor4. The instructions for towing the Automated Manual Transmission is ensure that it is "N", no mention of lubrication problems. It has a single dry plate clutch which only engages when the engine is running at the appropriate driving revs, and the gear lever is in "A" automatic or the central position for use as a sequential manual box. My motor home is a Transit normal automatic can not be towed unless extra oil is put in the gear box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Ranger - 2008-03-01 11:02 AM If this is any help to you Brian. I have a Mitsubishi Colt CZ2 car which is built in the Smart factory in Holland and has all the same running gear as the Smartfor4. The instructions for towing the Automated Manual Transmission is ensure that it is "N", no mention of lubrication problems. It has a single dry plate clutch which only engages when the engine is running at the appropriate driving revs, and the gear lever is in "A" automatic or the central position for use as a sequential manual box. My motor home is a Transit normal automatic can not be towed unless extra oil is put in the gear box. are you towing the colt on an A frame? as when I inquired regards a 3 door colt they were unsure as to if they could install the fixing kit behind front bumper as they had not done one before. Please, where did you get yours fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Hi Judgemental, the Colt must only be towed by the towing eye, and care must be taken to avoid any diagonal towing force, so it is stricktly straight line towing. I don't tow it behind the van, but I get the impression that frame towing is out of the question. Mitsubishi advise towing with two wheels off the ground, preferably rear wheels off the ground as the front bumper gets caught on the frame if lifted by the front wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Since this is a public forum, it should be pointed out that the last post could be taken to imply towing on a "dolly". This is not legal on public roads under normal circumstances.For the benefit of anyone reading this who may not have read the legal arguments about use of A frames, it would be wise to run a search of this forum using the keywords "A Frame". Set time to one year, select "Motorhome Matters", and then make up your own mind before jumping in.And no, I am not trying to re-run all the old debates. However, I do think folk should be able to acquaint themselves with the facts, before making their buying decisions, especially on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 oh bugger, fred as been towing alice around fer yers me andsums, and he didnt no it was illegal. unsafe yes, but illegal no. fiveupfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Hi, As clive has pointed out gearboxs do get damaged through lack of lub'. The gearbox gets very hot and the seals go on the gearbox drives. I had to replace 3 in the last 2 years after being towed to south of France and one to Spain. they may be fine over short distances and not fast speeds as I do know some do get away with it. Trailer or A-frame? It is a hard one to call. Be careful and enjoy. There is no replay. Regards, Brendan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I don't know the legal side of it, just copy what info is in the Colt CZ2 hand book. The frames shewn in there for towing are the ones fitted to the backs of break down vehicles not ones for towing behind a motor home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Chief - 2008-02-29 8:19 PM BTW the oddometer does not increase the miles on the Smart whist being towed. Our Smart had 12,000 mile on the clock, but had actually "covered" nearer 23,000 miles. :-) Did you tell the new owner? Just because it hadn't 'driven under it's own power' all the other components had still covered that mileage. One very good reason why I would never buy a Smart car if I suspected it had been towed on an 'A' frame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 onecal vw - 2008-03-01 9:10 PM Hi, As clive has pointed out gearboxs do get damaged through lack of lub'. The gearbox gets very hot and the seals go on the gearbox drives. I had to replace 3 in the last 2 years after being towed to south of France and one to Spain. they may be fine over short distances and not fast speeds as I do know some do get away with it. Trailer or A-frame? It is a hard one to call. Be careful and enjoy. There is no replay. Regards, Brendan. Surely this was not on a Smart car? See my earlier post re my mileage WITHOUT problems. Some days I towed on Autoroutes for 300 miles, only stopping or slowing down for tolls. I cruise at 60mph with the Smart on the A frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I part exchanged it for a Matiz with a Vauxhall dealer. I sold it with the A frame complete. He knew fully what the car was used for and in fact gave me a premium price for it because he knew exactly where to sell it on. He did not ask about the mileage or even the basic question "is the oddometer correct to you knowledge?" If he had asked the mileage then of course I would have been completely honest and told him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicwo Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 I am a Smart car. My Dad is happy to pull me all over the place. I feel fine and my gearbox still works. Sometimes he puts me on a trailer because he wants me to have a holiday too but I do worry about his back. It is so much easier for him to pull me on an a-frame. I trust my Dad because he has had Smarts for 10 years without any problems( but what does he know?). This will not go away because I have friends in Renault Peugeot Citroen who say they are having funny gearboxes too. Lets move on please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I quite fancy the new Smart electric. Ideal for communting to work and as a tow car on site. Charge it up from the hook up overnight on site. I wonder if it can be towed on an A frame same as a convential car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 HI Yes all smarts, The seals were gone. I dont know if they left them in gear or not but like I have already stated some people do get away with towing them over long distances at speed. Not my choice I think the trailer is better for the job in hand. Its all a matter of choice and its your choice. Take care out there and happy motoring. Regards, Brendan. PS The three people involved one has gone back to a caravan + car the other two are now using trailers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Peters Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 thank you all for your replies, i guess the sensible way is a trailer or risk a healthy repair bill. thanks again for all replies brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicwo Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 The entire transmission on Smart cars is splash lubricated. The box is made in Germany by Getrag who make the gearbox and clutch. They say that it's fine to tow or flat tow in Neutral at legal towing speed for as many miles as you like. Only smart added the maximum distance rule. The information was gained by a very well known guy into Smarts I would suspect that any cars damaged have been left in gear. So to put this one to bed its a manual gearbox operated electronicaly and influenced by the ECU. Anyone saying any different either hates Smarts or or is guessing. To round off----This is not what I think personaly but it is fact. Cheers Vicwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Hi. It is no good if your gearbox is damaged and guessing somone said that the gearbox manufacture implied it was ok to tow long distances at speeds and the car manufacture does not. Not much help on a low mileage car maybe under warranty. The ECU has no influence over the lubrication of the gearbox when OFF and I am not guessing. I dont hate Smarts, I think they are lovely car to tow behind a motorhome which opens up opportunities to visit areas that are less accessible by motorhome. Regards, Brendan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicwo Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Hi Brendan if you look at my posting again I did say the ECU influenced the operation, not the lubrication. Thats one of the reasons the ECU can help to make gearchange slow on the older Smart. If I put it down wrong well I apologise. I agree that a car low on miles and under warrantee may be very costly if anything broke. I have also a trailer which I use sometimes depending on my mood. It can be a pain at times if only one person is able bodied as in my cicrumstances to mess with a trailer. Its a choice that people have to make for themelves I think. Regards Vicwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Hi, Understood, Its a very hard one to call . I hope you have great holidays with your motorhome and car. Dont forget to give everyone a wave. Regards, Brendan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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