French gas

[DavidBrown]

Anyone on here use French gas bottles and if so which brand do u use and do u need adaptors to be able to fit to a standard propane calor gas fitting ?

 

Thanks

 

:-D

[Derek Uzzell]

The ‘traditional’ French gas bottle is steel with a nominal capacity of 13kg of gas. The output-valve connector of the bottle (butane or propane) is referred to as 21.8LH, which is the same left-hand threaded connector fitted to UK Calor 4.5kg butane canisters. More recently, French supermarkets have begun to market own-brand steel gas bottles with that connector and a slightly lower capacity.

 

There are significantly smaller capacity French steel bottles (Twiny, Malice, Elfi) holding 6kg(butane)/5kg (propane) and designed so that a pair of bottles can be ‘stacked’ vertically. These use a 20mm-diameter clip-on connector.

 

The composite “Le Cube” container (6kg(butane)/5kg (propane)) has a 27mm clip-on connector and composite ‘see through’ butane bottles (Calypso, Viseo) also use a clip-on connector.

 

Examples of French gas containers are shown here

 

http://tinyurl.com/hk8b7oc

 

To convert a UK-standard POL connection to a French 21.8LH connection you’d this type of adapter

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4331

 

Other Gaslow adapters are listed here

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/Gaslow-Products/Adapters

 

If you wanted to use a French bottle that did not have the 21.8LH connector, you might be better to replace your UK-standard POL-fitting propane gas-hose with a gas-hose with a 21.8LH end-fitting, rather than use a POL-to-21.8LH adapter plus another adapter to connect to the French bottle itself.

 

As you have a Rapido V56 any of the French containers mentioned above SHOULD fit in its gas-locker. But the ‘best’ choice of French bottle would depend on the general availability of the particular bottle if an empty one needed replacement, how much gas one anticipated using while in France, how often one plans to visit France in the future, portability (a 13kg steel bottle is heavy) and the cost of the deposit (consignation) asked when initially acquiring the bottle. Examples of Butagaz bottles are shown on this link

 

https://www.butagaz.fr/bouteilles-de-gaz/choisir-bouteille

 

and the consignation varies from 9€ (13kg steel bottle) to 29€ (Le Cube,Viseo). The deposit for a ‘supermarket special’ bottle may be as little as 1€.

 

This earlier forum discussion may be of interest:

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Propane-getting-ready-for-trip-to-France/40883/

 

 

[RapidoGuys]

Good Evening.

 

I am sorry to hijack this thread but I think I am looking for the same information! Also a Rapido V56 owner!

 

I currently use two Calor Gas Lite propane bottles with a Truma Automatic Changeover regulator fitted to the bulkhead of the van. To avoid needing to worry about the Calor Bottles running out in France or needing to refill a half empty bottle before going to France (which we visit with the Motorhome at least twice a year) I propose to do the following. Does it sound like this plan will work?

 

1. Before departure purchase the following parts online.

 

a) https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/gas/caravan-gas-fittings/gas-regulators/clip-on-gas-regulators-and-adaptors/27mm-adaptor-for-french-le-cube-and-bp-lightweight

 

b) https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/gas/caravan-gas-fittings/gas-hose-and-copper-tube/pigtail-hose-for-butane-and-propane-gas/pigtail-hose-for-butane-20inch-long (is this pigtail hose OK to use with Propane?)

 

2. Before next leaving for France remove the emptier Calor bottle from van, and also remove the pigtail connection and screw the stopper on to that side of the regulator..

 

3. Upon Arriving in France find a Butagaz Propane Cube ASAP. I know I have seen Butagaz all over the place on recent trips so I am confident it will be easy to find replacement bottles wherever we are. I also like the lightweight cylinders for better fuel consumption, lower weight of van etc. Expecting to pay a deposit of about 30 Euro and under 20 Euro for the gas. The retailer should accept a UK address?

 

4. Use the two parts purchased in the links above to connect the Butagaz Cube to the bulkhead regulator. Switch the regulator over and start using the Butagaz Cube.

 

5. If the gas in the Cube is all used, regulator will automatically switch to the Calor Bottle. Get Replacement Cube and switch back to that, so the Calor bottle is used as a contingency only.

 

6. Repeat as necessary

 

7. Upon returning to UK finish the Cube then remove from van, along with its pigtail hose, and reconnect the second Calor bottle and it's pigtail.

 

8. Use Calor until next due to go to France, when again I reinstall the Cube and it's pigtail, and go over with a full Calor bottle and an empty cube, replace the cube ASAP and use the Cube as the primary gas source and the Calor as the contingency.

 

9. Return to step 5 :-D

 

Thanks for any feedback! B-)

[Brian Kirby]

If a) your gas locker will accommodate two 13kg cylinders, and b) you are comfortable installing a full, steel, 13kg cylinder (about 25kg), I can't see why you would not merely install the UK butane pigtail and obtain a 13kg Butagaz propane cylinder on arrival in France. The large Auchan filling station in Avenue Roger Salengro, Calais, has racks of them.

 

Keep one of your UK cylinders and return the other, and then run with one UK cylinder and one French. I have been doing this for over 10 years now, and find it works very well.

 

I should add that we don't go winter sports camping, when gas heating will cause consumption to soar, and we do use campsites with EHU, so our gas consumption is mainly cooking, with occasional water heating and space heating if cold. We travel mainly during April, May and June, and again, September/October. Used thus, one 13kg cylinder lasts just over 12 weeks. Swap the empty UK cylinder whan at home, and the empty French cylinder when in/passing through France. Butagaz has very wide availability, especially at rural supermarkets (Intermarché etc.).

[RapidoGuys]

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for your reply. We have sort of decided that the smaller lightweight bottles are the better option for us for various reasons, and in any case I am not convinced the 13kg bottles would fit in our gas locker - it would be a very tight fit if it does! I am more looking for confirmation that the option we have decided on above works, and that we have the right connections etc.

[Derek Uzzell]

RapidoGuys

 

Your Rapido V56’s gas-locker will have been sized to accept two French-norm 13kg steel gas bottles. These bottles have a nominal diameter of 31cm and a height of around 57cm (butane) or 60cm (propane).

 

http://aide.butagaz.fr/contenu/gaz-en-bouteille/caracteristiques-des-bouteilles/quelles-sont-les-dimensions-et-caracteristiques-de-nos-bouteilles-poids-taille-quantite-energie/

 

It has to be said though that inserting/removing these large bottles may well be a challenge and opting for the smaller “Le Cube” container makes a good deal of sense.

 

My Rapido 640 has a gas-locker that can accommodate two 13kg French bottles and has a Truma DuoControl CS automatic changeover regulator attached to the locker’s roof. I use a 5kg-capacity composite user-refillable gas-bottle and a Gaslow 11kg-capacity steel user-refillable bottle, and inserting the bigger Gaslow canister into the locker certainly isn’t easy.

 

Your strategy sounds OK to me.

 

You could consider the option I mentioned earlier of keeping your existing ‘propane’ pigtail and using a POL-to-21.8LH adapter plus a “Le Cube” adapter, rather than changing to a ‘butane’ pigtail plus a “Le Cube” adapter. However, as you plan to travel to France with just one Calor GasLite bottle and block off the now ‘open’ outlet of the Truma changeover regulator, the butane pigtail + adapter approach will be tidier.

 

If your V56 has Truma ‘rupture protection’ UK-propane gas pigtails I guess you should really replace one of these with an equivalent Truma ‘rupture protection’ UK-butane pigtail, but that’s up to you. The 20” pigtail you gave a link to would equally be suitable for propane - it’s just its 21.8LH end-fitting that makes it a ‘butane’ pigtail.

 

Based on the Butagaz link I provided above, the current cost of obtaining a “Le Cube” (butane or propane) is 29€ deposit, plus 16.90€ for the gas and subsequent refills.

 

How to initially obtain a Butagaz bottle is described here:

 

https://www.butagaz.fr/bouteilles-de-gaz/consigne

 

In principle - when initially obtaining a “Le Cube” - you should be provided free of charge with an appropriate (butane or propane) clip-on regulator, but that would be of little use to you as you are going to need a ‘full pressure’ clip-on adapter. I don’t know if the latter would be offered to you free of charge instead of the regulator, but it might be wisest to do as you’ve suggested and obtain the adapter in the UK before you go abroad.

 

The paperwork involved in obtaining the French bottle allows you to obtain a refund of the deposit later should you so wish. I can’t answer your question definitively about the acceptability of a UK address, but I suspect that a French Butagaz retailer won’t care.

 

These earlier forum discussions may be of interest:

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Connections-to-connect-a-Le-Cube-to-your-bulkhead-regulator/38670/

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Warning-Gas/38630/

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/French-gas/38479/

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Propane-getting-ready-for-trip-to-France/40883/

 

 

[RapidoGuys]

Hi Derek,

 

Thank you for your extremely useful and comprehensive information.

 

You have raised a very valid point about the rupture protection system. I therefore propose to leave the existing pigtail on and use the "Gaslow 21.8 to UK propane adaptor"

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4331

 

combined with the "27mm adaptor for French Le Cube"

 

https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/gas/caravan-gas-fittings/gas-regulators/clip-on-gas-regulators-and-adaptors/27mm-adaptor-for-french-le-cube-and-bp-lightweight

 

to connect the Butagaz Cube to the existing pigtail and system. I trust that is the correct combination?

[Derek Uzzell]

Should be OK.

 

A 27mm “Le Cube” adapter and a POL-to-21.8LH adapter are both available from Hamilton Gas Products Ltd.

 

http://gasproducts.co.uk/gaslow-27mm-clip-on-adaptor-side-entry.html

 

http://gasproducts.co.uk/propane-pol-to-butane-adaptor.html

 

This may well be your cheapest source (I’ve bought from Hamilton in the past).

 

A couple of caveats...

 

1: To obtain a leak-proof joint you should expect to have to screw the POL-to-21.8LH adapter VERY tightly on to your existing propane pigtail’s POL end-fitting.

 

2: I believe a V56 has a top-loading gas-locker, but I don’t know how the bottles are retained inside it.

 

Presumably some sort of strapping system is used (a better one than my Rapido 640’s hopefully!) and that you’ve managed to securely tether your CalorLite bottles securely.

 

I think a CalorLite bottle has a diameter of 256mm, whereas a Le Cube has a square-ish cross-section measuring 282mm from side to side. I doubt this will be an issue, but it might be worth you assessing whether you should be able to secure a Le Cube in your V56’s locker without any modifications being required.

[RapidoGuys]

Thanks Derek, adaptors now ordered!

 

Measured the locker before deciding the Cube was the way to go in the first place. The locker is side loading, but sounds like we have the same securing straps as you. They hold the Calor bottles fine though!

 

Thanks for your help.

[Derek Uzzell]

Your motorhome must be a recentish model, as the first V56s had a top-loading gas-locker as shown in this video-clip.

 

 

While the top-loading design would have produced a very sturdy (and inexpensive) structure, inserting full 13kg bottles into the locker must have been challenging and it’s not too surprising that Rapido moved to the side-loading arrangement shown in the attached photo.

 

I’ve revamped my 640’s gas-bottle securing arrangement as the original set-up wasn’t suitable for my composite bottle and I thought the straps Rapido used were cheap and nasty. The composite bottle is now retained by a couple of these

 

http://www.caravanningequipment.com/onlinestore/prod_3721780-G80462-Gas-Bottle-Retainer-Belt-Buckle.html

 

and the steel Gaslow canister is held by a pair of ratchet tie-down straps

 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/ratchet-tie-down-straps-5m-x-25mm-2-pack/24567

 

[RapidoGuys]

Our locker has two of the retainer belt buckles you mention in your link (2 per bottle). We also carry several bungee straps which we will have to use if for some unforeseen reason they will not hold the Butagaz Cube!

[Derek Uzzell]

The attached photo shows the gas locker of a current model (French left-hand drive) V56 and I’m assuming it matches yours. The positioning of the straps indicates that Rapido anticipates that two large gas bottles would be carried.

 

My 640 came with two pairs of nasty rubbery straps set quite close to the locker’s metal base. They were too low to hold my tall but narrow composite bottle and I was lukewarm about their ability to retain the Gaslow canister. Probably OK I suppose if there were two 13kg bottles in the locker as there would be limited room for them to move about.

 

You could always stick a folded up towel behind the Le Cube before strapping it in. That should allow for its more square shape.