Campfos Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 After some advice here my present motorhome can tow 2000kgs according to the V5 and the conversion plate in the door jam that gives you the axle weights. Now on the fiat axle plate under the bonnet it gives you 2500kgs. The max axle weights are the same on both plates 1850 and 2000kgs. I know you would have to load the trailer so as you don't exceed these axle weights. Now I have just bought a miniature steam engine with trailer that weight a fraction over 2000kgs, so I have problem either I change the trailer for a lighter one or change the motorhome. So I know some Mercedes sprinters can tow 3500kgs with the heavy duty towbar fitted, does anyone know if you can tow 3500kgs with any other van type conversion motorhome. Now I did ask at a local motorhome dealer and they basically laughed at me which was not very helpful they were of the opinion you can only tow about 1000 kgs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Hi Campbell, The original Fiat towing limit of 2,500 kg will have been reduced by the converter probably because of an extended rear chassis. As an example our Sprinter based AutoTrail has a towing limit of 2,500 kg but the equivalent Fiat based models only have a 1,800 kg limit. Can you easily remove some part of the model engine to get the weight below 2,000 kg? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campfos Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thank you for the reply. I could get by with a 2500kg limit so the Mercedes route looks a go way to go. The layout of the Lunar landstar RL looks good to me The trailer I have is box trailer so kind of reluctant to change that out as I can also store the engine in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 If you uprate your Moho to 3850, bigger tyres and air suspension, (£600.?), you could uprate your towing max at the same time. Phone sv tech, they are very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I assume you are staying within the 'Maximum Train Weight' in your calculations......just a thought as you don't mention it ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Only advice I can offer is that towing with a rear wheel drive is better than a front wheel drive. Also some thought has to be given to the nose weight of the trailer in relation to the m/home towbar recommended weight. From memory the nose weight of a trailer should be about 7% , Most m/homes I suspect have a towbar limit of 75 Kgs or so. so an approximate 7% of your trailer and load could become a problem say 7% 0f 2500kg = 175kg . ?????????? This plus the weight of the towbar could become say 200kg, This inturn could become 225 on the rear axle loading and the front axle load become 25kg lighter 4 wheel trailer is more stable than a 2 wheel trailer, but has more pitch so can make the rear of the towing vehicle dance if the noseweight is too light. Takes some thinking about. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campfos Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 Contacted both Lunar and Autosleepers by email. Now received answers the lunar build on the Mercedes max limit is 2000kgs. But the Auto Sleeper Warrick XL build on the Peugeot boxer chassis is 3000kgs which I found a big strange but that has Al ok air top suspension on it, so don't know if that makes the difference over the Fiat Ducato. So I now think I will look at that van as that's the max I have found so far. Many thanks for everyone's input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 The Warrick XL is a Fiat Maxi panelvan same as my globecar, as standard these have 3000kg towing limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Campfos - 2016-10-26 6:42 PM Contacted both Lunar and Autosleepers by email. Now received answers the lunar build on the Mercedes max limit is 2000kgs. But the Auto Sleeper Warrick XL build on the Peugeot boxer chassis is 3000kgs which I found a big strange but that has Al ok air top suspension on it, so don't know if that makes the difference over the Fiat Ducato. So I now think I will look at that van as that's the max I have found so far. Many thanks for everyone's input. Gross Train Weight (GTW) must also be taken into account, not just the stated towing limit. It will be the highest figure given on the VIN plate, and is the maximum permissible weight of the laden van plus the laden trailer. What you can legally tow is the lower of the GTW or the towing limit. I don't think GTW can readily be increased, if at all. It is a limit set by the vehicle manufacturer and is based on the maximum load at which the vehicle can comfortably start on a hill of a pre-defined gradient. See also this Wiki link: http://tinyurl.com/zkvgu62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campfos Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Thanks for all the views on this subject. Does anyone know the legal position with the gross train weight on the Fiat vin plate as against the converters plate. Which one would the authorities go by as the towbar is connected to the fiat chassis using extension bars. Now been round a few motorhome dealers and it's a question they can't really answer in some places I am showing them where to look for the Vin plates. But there is a lot of people tow things with Motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Motorhomes are completed in stages, and the converter is the "finisher", so their plate becomes the one that sets the legal limit on GTW. The other plates are there to show what was changed. Changes are made in consultation with the other contributors to the build. Where the finisher changes the GTW, therefore, it will have been in consultation with Fiat (or whoever manufactured the chassis) and, if relevant, AlKo or others involved with suspension or transmission modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Good afternoon, If its a panel van conversion then the plate under the bonnet fixed by the vehicle manufacturer and the gross train weight must not be exceeded ,therefore you would need to go to a weighbridge to get a tare for the van on its own then deduct that from the gross train weight. It would stand to reason that a coachbuilt would tow less due to the overhang. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campfos Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Good day All, I am really surprised how many motorhome dealers don't appear to know very much about the GTW of the Motorhomes they sell. As my quest to get a motorhome than can tow my little Foden steam engine in its trailer. The best people I have contacted so far have been Auto sleepers as the gentleman there sent me a copy of the certificate of Conformity for the Peugeot Warrick XL. with gives the GTW of 6500kgs which gives you a towing weight of 3000kgs based on the motorhome being 3500kgs. So now looking to get one of these XL vans. Thanks all for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 As per my post above, all XLWB Sevel panelvans are Maxi vans and have 3000kg towing limit. Some LWB can be specified as Maxi vans (I think Adria Twin and WildAx have this option plus no doubt more makes) and these will also have 3000kg towing limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 tonyishuk - 2016-10-26 3:21 PM Only advice I can offer is that towing with a rear wheel drive is better than a front wheel drive. Also some thought has to be given to the nose weight of the trailer in relation to the m/home towbar recommended weight. From memory the nose weight of a trailer should be about 7% , Most m/homes I suspect have a towbar limit of 75 Kgs or so. so an approximate 7% of your trailer and load could become a problem say 7% 0f 2500kg = 175kg . ?????????? This plus the weight of the towbar could become say 200kg, This inturn could become 225 on the rear axle loading and the front axle load become 25kg lighter 4 wheel trailer is more stable than a 2 wheel trailer, but has more pitch so can make the rear of the towing vehicle dance if the noseweight is too light. Takes some thinking about. Rgds I do hope all scooter rack dealers/manufacturers/fitters take note of your trailer nose weight comment of "75Kgs or so" especially the 'vans with chassis extensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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