TheoOlsen Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Hi Folks, Newbie here. My wife and I are thinking of purchasing a motorhome. We now live in Luxembourg and mainly will be cruising in central Europe. After extensive research, we shortlisted our options to 2 brands: Morelo Palace vs. Niesmann Bischoff Flair. We had a close look at both models in Dusseldorf this year and liked them both in terms of design and functionality. Technology and innovation wise they both seem to be ahead of other German brands. Unfortunately, we haven't made up our mind yet :( In the meantime, a web site that we came across raised some question marks. As we were crawling through forums/blogs/social platforms to read reviews, we came accross a blog called "Morelo Experience" on Medium.com. Seemingly, the blog has been recently started by an angry Morelo customer who faced a lot of problems. At first I thought it was some sort of bogus page to bad-mouth Morelo but as I continued reading, I saw many screenshots of their email exchanges with the factory. He talks about his order being cancelled, then some items in his order being removed, and worst of all, he says he could not pickup his motorhome since weeks because the factory sent original registration docs to wrong address and consequently got lost, and that they were doing nothing about it since then. I've heard that doing business with German companies could be sometimes complicated for foreigners, but never thought it would reach such levels that made someone start a blog! Anyways, if any of you folks in this forum had any experience with either of these brands or models, I would really appreciate a feedback. Thanks a lot... Theo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Hi Theo and welcome!!! First question, have you ever driven either make? Start by reading these recent threads and then ask your dealer for an extended test drive... https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=carthago&author=TheEscapist&days=365&Submit=Search Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Yes try to do a test drive whit that truck looking like a dream. And fit The intelligent shock absorbers from VB and Air suspesion on the axles and front seats. if you decide provide the correct chassis code, and i can give you advise on the air suspesion Prefer to buy factory fitted instead of a retrofit. Hans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 The main German forum will be more productive with many more owners. https://www.wohnmobilforum.de/kategorien.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Theo I don’t think any O&ALive forum-member will have practical experience of Morelo motorhomes, but I am aware that one member purchased a Niesmann + Bischoff Flair quite recently. Some 2017-2019 UK owner comments on both makes can be found here https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/club-together/discussions/welcome-hobby-talk/caravan-motorhome-chat/any-morelo-owners/ and there are dedicated N+B and Morelo ’sub-forums’ on the MotorHomeFun website where you might well be able to get comparative feedback. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/forums/niesmann-bischoff-owners-club.101/ https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/forums/morelo-motorhomes.100/ Alternative German makes to Morelo and N+B would be Concorde or Phoenix, with the latter receiving excellent scores in past customer-satisfaction surveys. https://www.concorde.eu/en/ https://www.phoenix-reisemobile.de/modelle/fahrzeuge/ For anyone wanting to read the blog you refer to, the following link relates https://medium.com/morelo-experience (Over the years there have beem plenty of criticisms of motorhome manufacturers regarding lack of interest once a vehicle has been completed, with an insistance that all subsequent enquiries be dealt with through the selling dealership. This naturally irritates buyers, but what may irritate when the motorhome costs €60K is likely to infuriate when the price is €360K.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 I have had a burstner Aviano. And excellent direct contact whit burstner customer service in Kehl. For sure it is the same for Niesmann. Having a Flair in our club. Of course your dealer is always involved having a contract whit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 I just remember a problem whit the flair at the dealer which is mine also. I bought 3 motor homes from them. At the time of delivery of the flair which can be up nearly a year there was a recall by Iveco. About the hand brake cable near the rear axle.. Bolts to weak on the fixing point. Remember this point on ducato and alko chassis. And understand the function of it. Anyway the dealer said you have pass iveco after delivery New. I said to him the plate is still not there, and in that case the dealer should do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 TheoOlsen - 2019-09-16 5:51 PM Hi Folks, Newbie here. My wife and I are thinking of purchasing a motorhome. We now live in Luxembourg and mainly will be cruising in central Europe. After extensive research, we shortlisted our options to 2 brands: Morelo Palace vs. Niesmann Bischoff Flair. We had a close look at both models in Dusseldorf this year and liked them both in terms of design and functionality. Technology and innovation wise they both seem to be ahead of other German brands. Unfortunately, we haven't made up our mind yet :( In the meantime, a web site that we came across raised some question marks. As we were crawling through forums/blogs/social platforms to read reviews, we came accross a blog called "Morelo Experience" on Medium.com. Seemingly, the blog has been recently started by an angry Morelo customer who faced a lot of problems. At first I thought it was some sort of bogus page to bad-mouth Morelo but as I continued reading, I saw many screenshots of their email exchanges with the factory. He talks about his order being cancelled, then some items in his order being removed, and worst of all, he says he could not pickup his motorhome since weeks because the factory sent original registration docs to wrong address and consequently got lost, and that they were doing nothing about it since then. I've heard that doing business with German companies could be sometimes complicated for foreigners, but never thought it would reach such levels that made someone start a blog! Anyways, if any of you folks in this forum had any experience with either of these brands or models, I would really appreciate a feedback. Thanks a lot... Theo. Please note ;-) ...... After Brexit we will demand all you "funny foreigners" include a foot bath on your campers before you step onto UK soil :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 TheoOlsen - 2019-09-16 5:51 PM Hi Folks, Newbie here. My wife and I are thinking of purchasing a motorhome. We now live in Luxembourg and mainly will be cruising in central Europe. After extensive research, we shortlisted our options to 2 brands: Morelo Palace vs. Niesmann Bischoff Flair. We had a close look at both models in Dusseldorf this year and liked them both in terms of design and functionality. Technology and innovation wise they both seem to be ahead of other German brands. Unfortunately, we haven't made up our mind yet :( In the meantime, a web site that we came across raised some question marks. As we were crawling through forums/blogs/social platforms to read reviews, we came accross a blog called "Morelo Experience" on Medium.com. Seemingly, the blog has been recently started by an angry Morelo customer who faced a lot of problems. At first I thought it was some sort of bogus page to bad-mouth Morelo but as I continued reading, I saw many screenshots of their email exchanges with the factory. He talks about his order being cancelled, then some items in his order being removed, and worst of all, he says he could not pickup his motorhome since weeks because the factory sent original registration docs to wrong address and consequently got lost, and that they were doing nothing about it since then. I've heard that doing business with German companies could be sometimes complicated for foreigners, but never thought it would reach such levels that made someone start a blog! Anyways, if any of you folks in this forum had any experience with either of these brands or models, I would really appreciate a feedback. Thanks a lot... Theo. I'm a little puzzled. You live in Luxembourg, but your penultimate paragraph suggests you may buy your van in Germany. If so, you would presumably need to arrange for it to be registered in Luxembourg? Or is your reference to dealing with German companies a reference to the manufacturers, and not to the selling dealer? If you are referring to the manufacturers, it is quite normal for the manufacturer to direct warranty issues back to the selling dealership, as they are likely to be the people with whom you have a direct contract of sale, so legal responsibility for the adequacy of the goods, but also because they are expected to employ technicians competent to handle most such issues. The Morelo case seems to be in a different league. Hans makes good points regarding Burstner and Neismann, and their customer service. I understand much the same extends to Hymer itself (the parent company of both Burstner and Neismann). However, Hymer and their subsidiaries have recently been bought by an American company, so they may find that their past attitudes to customer service are subject to change under the new ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Hi Theo, We bought a new NB Flair 830LE, and have run it now for a year. Our other consideration was a Morello Loft, and indeed we had signed an order with Morello, but changed our mind for the following reasons. Mainly, you will always see Morello and indeed Concorde with their steering wheels off, which is a great option, but I found that with the wheel in place, after I got myself comfortable, the driving position (for me) was bordering on uncomfortable, and with the seat fairly well forward, access, due to the "cool box" was also restricted. With the Niesmann, it is comfortable, and the seat fully turns without problem. Next, practicality. The Morello dashboard, lovely as it looks, is not practicable. If you want to put a motorhome sat nav on the dash, it would probably slide off, and there is not as much storage in the cockpit area as in the Niesmann. At the time, there was a narrow shelf that ran under the lockers, and that was not useful for anything other than tissues or similar. The Niesmann dash is nearly standard Iveco. I felt that, for the money, it could have been improved, as in the Le Voyageur Liners, but overall the finish and fit is excellent on our Flair, and 10,000 miles later, all is well. Both Niesmann ant Morello are on the same chassis and power train, and this works well, however the engine noise levels are quite high, but acceptable, and I can't comment on the Morello as we never drove one. Both companies have lovely bathrooms, but the Niesmann's twin shower wins it! My buying experience from Travelworld in the UK has not been a pleasant one, and I wish I had gone to Durrwang in Dortmund who offered a good discount, and were very happy to deal with us. Another owner also bought from Durrwang and all went well. I have contacted Niesmann customer service on a few occasions and they have always come back quickly with an answer. We also use a local Niesmann approved service agent in the UK, and all work done by them has been excellent and free of charge where applicable. I did not opt for the Goldschmitt air suspension and self levelling which is the standard (and owned by Hymer) fit, but retro fitted VB air and E&P self levelling, which was cheaper, and arguably better. The systems talk to each other and work well. Would I buy Niesmann again? The answer is probably yes. BUT, we previously had a Le Voyageur, and found their customer service, even out of guarantee, to be excellent, and would probably have given a lot more consideration to buying a Liner, but the interior was all white, with no option to customise, and we felt that we couldn't live with that. They have since bought out a "classic" with a better interior, and I would be sorely tempted to give that further consideration! The UK Niesmann owners are on this site https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nandbdriversclub/ There is the Niesmann open weekend in Polch, early in November, and it could be worth your while visiting there at that time. We are going for the first time this year, and any make of Motorhome is welcome. If I can be of further help, please feel free to contact me by PM. Best of luck Ainsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Can you upload pictures of the retro- fitted Vb air suspension on the front and rear axle ? In case of a iveco chassis. What is the lift on the rear maximum. Just a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Sorry for the repeat of the most important. How soft is the air suspension. Is it harch to drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Unfortunately, my van is in Spain and I am in the UK, so no pictures at the moment. As to driving, the van is very stable especially in cross winds, and does not bounce. I drove it after we picked it up for 300 miles, and then had the air suspension fitted. There was a noticeable difference in the ride, being less harsh. The change in ride height should be available from the VB website, or any approved fitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Vb can not provide ride height tables . Only a AL-Ko chassis can do it. In case of air on front or rear the ride height REMAINS the same. The preload is the factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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