DavieR Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I cannot fit a Type I SOG kit to my camper because the interior trim of the side door would hit the SOG filter housing on the cassette hatch. Fitting a Type II seems a bit more complicated but the easiest way for me would seem to be have the pipe from the Thetford vent exiting under the toilet unit at the front (marked X in the attached image). I'm 99% sure there are no cables, heating or water pipes in the way. Exiting to the side into a bed locker is also possible but harder as there is a small void between the locker and toilet, plus water pipes are there too. Before I commit can anyone point out why I shouldn't do it this way? Also, I have a suitable hole in the floor already but it's one I cannot or should not seal as the gas filler pipe runs through it. So I plan to run the pipe from the SOG filter under the van a metre or so from the hole. Finally, I came across a picture (2nd one) of a SOG II Type D installation but don't understand how the filter inlet pipe is where it is! As seen here - http://www.outdoorbits.com/sog-system-kit-type-p-2790.html Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Such a lot of work for such a smelly bit of kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavieR Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 starvin marvin - 2017-06-11 4:50 PM Such a lot of work for such a smelly bit of kit. Well, thanks. But I've read the debate here and elsewhere and I want one. I'll find out if you are right or wrong! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 starvin marvin - 2017-06-11 4:50 PM Such a lot of work for such a smelly bit of kit. AGREE!! Just empty the toilet regularly! Never had a problem with our van in 11 years. Why stink others out ? PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Excellent job Davie, just ignore the luddites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I note that you asked about this last month http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Thetford-c400-toilet-vent/47066/ As your Shire motorhome’s Thetford toilet is a C402 model with integrated flush-water reservoir, this would (apparently) prevent the SOG II Type D approach shown in your lower photo being used. Thetford does not ‘approve’ fitting SOG kits to their toilets and few motorhome manufacturers offer a SOG kit as part of the vehicle’s original specification or as a factory option. Consequently, although it would often be relatvely easy to install a SOG kit when a motorhome is being built, retro-fitting a kit can prove very tricky. Each SOG kit will contain the parts required to fit the SOG system in the manner shown in the kit’s installation instructions, but it does not automatically follow that those instructions can be followed rigidly. I can’t tell you why (in your lower photo) the filter’s inlet hose emerges above the cassette’s emptying-spout. As the hose MUST connect back to the cassette’s underside vent-valve, presumably this was just the way in which the installer chose to link the vent-valve to the filter. Whether this was the only practicable approach, or the best approach, is anybody’s guess, but it sure ain’t pretty and (I suspect) the length of hose provided in the kit would have not been long enough to reach from the vent-valve to the filter. I can’t see any particular reasons why you should not have the hose from the cassette’s vent-valve exiting from the point you marked “X” in your upper photo, but I don’t know exactly what the kit contains that would allow you to go from Point X to the filter, so be prepared to need to make modifications to the methodology advised in the kit’s instructions. SOG II Type D installation instructions can be found here http://www.sognz.co.nz/sogii-c400-installation-instructions/ For optimum efficiency the pipework/hose leading from the cassette’s underside vent-valve to the fan/filter unit should be kept as short as practicable. A drawback of the door-mounted Type D SOG system is that the extractor-fan is relatively low-powered and quite a distance from the vent-valve. As a result there’s a notieceable delay between the fan beginning to run and air commencing to flow downwards from the toilet-bowl. It’s an inherent and unavoidavle characteristic of the system and should be (largely) circumvented by the SOG II system’s more powerful extractor unit. I’m not sure about the effect on efficiency of running a metre-long pipe from the filter to the outside air, but in principle it would be best to keep the length of the pipework both to and from the filter-unit to a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavieR Posted June 19, 2017 Author Share Posted June 19, 2017 Many thanks Derek, much appreciated. I'll let you know how I get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Good luck... One thing I omitted to mention is that, when fitting a SOG I kit to my Rapido, I found that the position of the aluminium bracket carrying the microswitch was absolutely critical. Fitting the bracket is described at the top of page 2 of the instructions I provided a link to in my last posting and the positioning advice is underlined. The snag is that (besides having to attach the bracket at arm’s length deep within the cassette-locker) when the cassette is inserted in the locker it may well affect the positional relationship of the micro-switch to the ’slide cover’. It’s not possible to predict the potential effect, but I found that, when the cassette was in place, the extractor-fan was switched off (ie. the microswitch was closed) only just before the ‘valve’ in the toilet-bowl’s base was fully shut. This is perfectly OK, but it was easy to see that unless the microswitch was positioned so that it was in contact with the very end of the 'slide-cover' (as shown in the 2nd drawing on Page 2 of the link) the microswitch would not have closed and the fan would not have turned off. Suggest you take care over this and mark exactly where the bracket needs to go before the final fitting. The ‘adhesive film’ has a very strong grip and, if you get the position of the bracket wrong, you’ll have a helluva job repositioning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavieR Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 Well, that all went well. The trickiest bit is certainly the positioning of the micro switch! However, there is a problem. I have a functioning fan that is blowing air out of the filter when testing the system without the cassette but, when I try with the cassette fitted, no air exits the filter despite the fan spinning. I'm guessing that that the automatic vent in the cassette is stuck closed (which is disappointing for an almost brand new unity if correct) I found these repair instructions - http://www.thetford.pl/serwis/naprawa_toalety/C400.pdf which are well worth saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 DavieR - 2017-07-12 10:06 PM However, there is a problem. I have a functioning fan that is blowing air out of the filter when testing the system without the cassette but, when I try with the cassette fitted, no air exits the filter despite the fan spinning. But surely the SOG fan should only run when the cassette blade is open (?) If the fan is running with the blade closed then something else is wrong. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavieR Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 Keithl - 2017-07-12 10:23 PM But surely the SOG fan should only run when the cassette blade is open (?) If the fan is running with the blade closed then something else is wrong. Keith. Sorry Keith, perhaps my poor explanation. The fan switches on correctly when the blade is open but it fails to draw any air through the cassette. If I withdraw the cassette and operate the micro switch manualy the fan draws air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Keith I’m guessing you are unfamiliar with a Thetford C400 cassette. The cassette’s automatic vent valve is hidden beneath a small plastic cover in the cassette’s upper surface and access to that valve is gained by removing the cover. (See Pages 51301 headed “SC400 Automatic Valve”, about halfway down the Thetford repair instruction document in the link DavieR provided in his posting of 12 July 2017 10:06 PM above). When a C400 cassette is not in the cassette-locker the automatic vent valve is in its closed position. Inserting the cassette fully into the locker causes a movable ‘component' in the lower surface of the cassette to marry up with an opening in the locker’s floor. The movable component is attached by an ‘arm’ to the automatic vent valve and, when the cassette is in the locker, the component is moved upwards. This opens the vent valve and air in the cassette can then vent through the locker’s floor-opening.The movable component is visible in three photos on Page 51313 (the next one down from Pages 51301 in the Thetford repair instruction document) and the locker-floor opening on Page 51317 (“SC400 Outside vent”). Normally it should be straightforward to access the automatic vent valve and check it’s operation, but the SOG instructions advise that a large self-adhesive label (included in the SOG kit) should be positioned over the vent valve’s access cover, presumably to ensure that no air can be drawn through the cover from outside the cassette when the SOG fan is running. So, if DavieR has already fixed the label to the cassette, he will now have to remove it to get at the vent valve. As I touched on above, a SOG I kit fitted to a Thetford C400 does not produce immediate and powerful air-flow through the toilet bowl’s blade valve. I’ve assumed that a SOG II kit’s bigger fan unit is more powerful, but I’ve no hands-on experience of the SOG II product. SOG advises that an operational test should be carried out to prove that the fan is drawing air through the blade-valve in the toilet bowl. This test involves using cigarette smoke (or smoke from a taper/incense stick) and, if DavieR has carried out that test and no smoke is being drawn into the cassette, his diagnosis that the automatic vent valve is not opening is almost certainly correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 PJay - 2017-06-12 8:35 AMstarvin marvin - 2017-06-11 4:50 PMSuch a lot of work for such a smelly bit of kit.AGREE!!Just empty the toilet regularly! Never had a problem with our van in 11 years. Why stink others out ?PJay Jumping in with this sort of put down is neither helpful nor welcome, especially since the pair of you are merely riding the same old hobby horses again. Give it a rest and respond to posts in a more constructive way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I have jumped from the first post to the last so if anyone else has said this I apologize from your photo it looks as if where the cross is is inside your back doors? Why dont you do as we did on our panel van EXIT UNDERNEATH , you can buy that bit of kit we bought ours when in Germany and O.H fitted it so the fumes exit underneath. Make enquiries from SOG and find out just what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Maggyd In DavieR's original posting he said that he planned to use an underfloor outlet for the fan-unit. Although he has not said so, I’m pretty sure DavieR’s Shire PVC is the “XLR” model that has its washroom amidships with the toilet’s cassette-locker door on the left side just behind the rear edge of the sliding entrance door (as may be seen from the attached photo). As DavieR mentioned above, this prevents him fitting a SOG I kit that would have the fan-unit mounted on the cassette-locker door. I note that your 2013 Autocruise Alto has its toilet (a Thetford C200 swivel-bowl model I believe) at the rear, with access to the cassette being gained by opening the vehicle’s rear doors. In this case it makes perfect sense to vent a SOG kit through the floor - in fact, it’s difficult to envisage doing otherwise. It’s perhaps worth adding that fitting a SOG kit to a Thetford C200 toilet is normally quite easy, whereas fitting a kit to a C400 is always likely to be a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I see what you mean Derek , I wouldn't bother if it cant be done to come out underneath ! I find them annoying anyway I'm always conscious of the fan running anyway, and on the KonTiki we had it going outside ! I hated it if we were on an Aire where vans park up close!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavieR Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 That's the one Derek, an XLR Twin. Maggyd - my SOG is exiting through the floor, I've just chosen an unusual exit from the Thetford unit. So, armed with my PDF and Derek's advice I took a look at my cassette this afternoon. Happily, just looking at it made it work! I guess a little lubrication is required. Many thanks again Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Its good to have an expert on the job. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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