Den Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Hi Just lowered the pressure form 71ppi to 67 rear and 64 front. But the low pressure warning light will not extinguish on the dash board. I've been into the menu and nothing there. Any ideas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Sadly there are no user-configurable settings for the TPMS. A dealer, or anyone else with the relevant Schrader diagnostic equipment, are your only options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 More detail in this earlier forum discussion http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/New-Ducato/37504/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 With the tyres set at 5.5bar equal to 79psi, we don't drive down the road, we bounce along. Dropped the pressure to stop some of the creaks and groans of the rear. But the low pressure warning light is on constantly. In our car you simply push a button to reset. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Steve928 - 2015-12-08 6:43 PM Sadly there are no user-configurable settings for the TPMS. A dealer, or anyone else with the relevant Schrader diagnostic equipment, are your only options. What an absolutely stupid, useless system, tyre pressures non-configurable by the user-driver ?? That's one accessory I would not tick on the options list, and one I would remove at the earliest opportunity. What's the point of having a warning system, if you cannot set the pressure limit,that sets off the alarm? Crying Wolf,and it being ignored, is the danger here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-12-08 10:54 PM Steve928 - 2015-12-08 6:43 PM Sadly there are no user-configurable settings for the TPMS. A dealer, or anyone else with the relevant Schrader diagnostic equipment, are your only options. What an absolutely stupid, useless system, tyre pressures non-configurable by the user-driver ?? That's one accessory I would not tick on the options list, and one I would remove at the earliest opportunity. What's the point of having a warning system, if you cannot set the pressure limit,that sets off the alarm? Crying Wolf,and it being ignored, is the danger here. I would expect anyone planning to have a child to wish to deselect the ‘stupid useless’ vermiform appendix from that child’s anatomical specification if they could. But they can’t do this because the appendix is a standard human feature and not an option. Once the child is born the appendix can be surgically removed, but not before. As I understand it, TPMS continues to be an option for new coachbuilt motorhomes (mandatory from a February 2016 first UK-registration date?) but some converters are including TPMS within their motorhomes’ standard technical specification. Evidently Bailey is one converter choosing to do this. Den owns a 2015 Ducato-based Chausson 610, but I don’t know if his motorhome had TPMS as standard or as an option. Either way (as Steve928 said - and as was discussed in the earlier thread I provided a link to) a Ducato with original-equipment TPMS lacks the capability for the user to lower the vehicle’s tyre pressures significantly from the pressures originally programmed into the system and then tweak the TPMS to match the deliberately reduced pressures. The TPMS could (apparently) be reprogrammed so that lower pressures could be employed without low-pressure warnings being issued, but this would require specialist intervention. As far as I’m aware a Ducato’s TPMS cannot be ‘officially’ disabled even by a Fiat agent. Assuming that Den’s motorhome has 215/70 R15CP Michelin “Agilis Camping” tyres that are the current norm on Ducato 35 ‘light’ chassis, I’d expect the advised tyre pressures to be 5.0bar/72psi(front) and 5.5bar/80psi(rear). A TPMS will need to deal with tyre-pressure drop occurring naturally when the weather is cold, so if the advised pressures are 72(F)/80psi® I’d expect the system not to warn if those pressures were lowered to, say, 67psi(F)/76psi®. I freely admit to not knowing what ‘logic’ the Fiat system uses, but it seems likely that 72/80 pressures could be lowered slightly without triggering warnings. However, as Den says his Chausson has a very bouncy ride and creaks and groans at the back, if tyre-pressure reduction is to be employed to address this, major reductions will be required. Permitting a driver to easily override factory pre-set pressures plainly conflicts directly with a TPMS’s safety-related objectives. In the case of Bailey motorhomes it would seem that the converter has advised a front-tyre pressure well below Peugeot’s factory recommendation and not had the TPMS suitably reprogrammed. When the motorhome’s TPMS consequently warns that the front-tyre pressures are low, it seems fair to blame Bailey for this. In Den’s case it’s likely that his Chausson’s TPMS tyre-valve-sensor settings are based on the pressures advised in the Fiat Ducato Owner Handbook. There’s nothing in the Handbook about owners using different pressures if they so wish, so (unless the Chausson handbook suggests owners may play about with tyre pressures) if a Chausson owner chooses to use lower pressures and triggers the TPMS, the responsibiity for this must lie with the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Derek, appendix operations aside, I would remove any factory fitted TPMS system, easily done by a tyre fitter. And replace it with a user friendly,adjustable aftermarket system. To make it MOT compatable. Surely the Safety feature this system was designed for, was to immediately inform the driver when a particular wheel tyre had dropped below the pressure that HE SHE had set.NOT to enforce abritary nationwide tyre pressure levels ? Which can produce uncomfortable journey's and harsh rides in motor homes, with no measurable safety advantage. And encourage an ignore the wolf, mentality over the warning signals. A good safety feature, ruined by heavy handed implementation. IMO. Using your own analogy, my appendix are perfectly fine where they were placed.However, if they cause me discomfort , Out they come, and to hell with design specifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-12-09 9:52 AM Derek, appendix operations aside, I would remove any factory fitted TPMS system, easily done by a tyre fitter... My understanding is that if the tyre-valve pressure-sensors fitted to a Ducato’s wheel-rims were removed, the vehicle’s TPMS would become ‘aware' of this and an appropriate warning would appear on the dashboard display and this warning could not be overridden. I don’t know what your approach would mean legally at the moment, but once TPMS became mandatory for Ducato-based motorhomes and it became part of the Type-Approved model’s basic specification, I would have thought that deliberately disabling the system would certainly have regulatory implications. I can’t see adding an aftermarket TPMS changing that. It’s possible that you know more about the Ducato’s TPMS than I do and that a tyre-fitter could indeed easily remove/disable it with no knock-on effect on the part of the system that’s external to the wheels. If so, perhaps you could confirm this, please, and what’s involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Den - 2015-12-08 6:24 PM Hi Just lowered the pressure form 71ppi to 67 rear and 64 front. But the low pressure warning light will not extinguish on the dash board. I've been into the menu and nothing there. Any ideas ? To return briefly to the OP's predicament, the Schrader documentation for their original equipment TPMS states that the system will/should have been set to trigger an alarm at a pressure 25% below placard pressure. The same 25% alarm threshold is quoted for their retrofit TPMS kit, which uses the same EZ sensors. Clearly the addition of later placards by the motorhome converter may muddy the waters somewhat, but if your system is not performing to its manufacturer's published threshold, and it appears that it isn't, then I would have thought that you would have a valid claim to have it re-programmed FOC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 It might be worth looking at the offerings from this place http://www.multiecuscan.net/ . This is software for reading and programming vehicles and various modules in Italian vehicles and certainly list TPMS from TRW as one of the modules it can control. There is a free download version which has limited use but fully functional for each option (its like 20 mins max at a time and limits the total parameters you can display at one time. You need a cheap OBD2 data interface module such as an ELM327 and they are cheap from china and reasonable from UK suppliers, and you need a laptop or netbook of course. So maybe a search will find more info on this and if possible, I am just suggesting as a may be possible route to reprogramming the tyre pressures yourself using a laptop and a cheap interface. If I had TPMS and had to be programmed via computer I would certainly be checking if it could do it with my set up and ELM327. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Darn it!!! Downloaded latest version and also checked list of supported vehicles and think above is a no goer as not listing latest vehicles...yet. Oh well, worth an explore and also worth looking at for earlier vehicles for diagnostics but that is off topic now. Sorry about this mislead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agaric Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I can see a lot of problems with having a fixed parameter TPMS that is not operator adjustable. My Burstner Aviano which is shod with Hankook 215/70 R15C tyres, in the Burstner manual it suggests 4.1F and 4.5R and for camper tyres 5F and 5.5R the max for my tyres is 4.5. Continental suggest 3.6F and 4R for this type of tyre and for their camper tyre 3.75F and 4.75R. I went on the Alco site to see what they recommended, it was the same as my manual. On an earlier post on here Hankook seem to recommend similar front pressures to Continental but lower for the rears. I'm currently using 3.75F and 4.4R. So the recommended pressure for just this one tyre size run from 3.6 to 5.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Brambles - 2015-12-09 11:47 AM Darn it!!! Downloaded latest version and also checked list of supported vehicles and think above is a no goer as not listing latest vehicles...yet. Oh well, worth an explore and also worth looking at for earlier vehicles for diagnostics but that is off topic now. Sorry about this mislead. I have had a look at my fully up to date, paid version of this software and there is no support for TPMS on any of the modules for Ducato at any age. The latest Euro5b or 5+ are supported under Ducato (restyle). As far as i know this is the only after market system that recognises the change from Bosch to Marelli engine management for Euro5. Off topic, but i thought relevant enough. There are some fairly affordable TPMS devices available but i have not yet found out whether they can re-program the sensors. This is a minefield that i am avoiding for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 As far as I can make out the 25%-below-placard-pressure advice relates back to a 15-year-old US TREAD Act that stated that TPMS warning lights do not need to illuminate until the tyre pressures recommended by a vehicle manufacturer have reduced by 25%. However, there’s apparently nothing to prevent a manufacturer from employing a TPMS where warnings begin to be issued at a smaller percentage pressure-reduction. (If I’ve got that wrong, I’m happy to be corrected.) Agaric - 2015-12-09 12:05 PM I can see a lot of problems with having a fixed parameter TPMS that is not operator adjustable... The primary difficulty with the TPMS that is factory-fitted to Boxers/Ducatos/Relays comes when owners of motorhomes based on those vehicles want to reduce the high tyre pressures advised by Peugeot/Fiat/Citroen, find that this causes the TPMS to issue warnings, and then discover that reprogramming the system to tolerate the desired reductions isn’t simple and (realistically) can’t be carried out by themselves. Peugeot/Fiat/Citroen have (evidently) chosen to inhibit the vehicle owner/driver from ‘resetting’ the TPMS, whereas the latest Ford Transit Mk 8 has a owner/driver TPMS resetting capability accessed through the dashboard-display menu (though I’m not sure what this ‘resetting’ procedure actually does!) This Caravan Club forum discusses the Bailey motorhome TPMS (hence the system fitted to Peugeot Boxers) http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/community/discussions/information,-technical-tips-advice/motorhomes/Tyre-Pressure-Monitoring-Bailey/rt/1094983/?p=0 and it will be seen on Page 3 (posting of 27 July 2015) that an Auto-Sleepers owner was able to have his Boxer-based motorhome’s TPMS reprogrammed by a Peugeot dealer for £39. It’s probable that a Fiat main agent could do likewise for TPMS-equipped Ducatos if an owner insisted, though it would obviously be wise to experiment carefully with reduced pressures before having the TPMS reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Thanks Nick. It is a p p p pain for those wanting different pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Hi Derek Yes it was an option and because my Wife's car alarmed with a rear tyre deflating I thought it a good idea. Even at 67psi it's still alarming, set by our local friendly tyre fitter and checked with my digital pressure gauge. I think some blue tac over the eliminated warning light till I sort it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Den I chose to have TPMS when I bought my 2009 Skods as the option was just £80. The system is ‘indirect’, exploiting the vehicle’s ABS system, comparing the wheels’ rotational speed and warning if an unusual difference in comparative speed is recognised. It’s a simple system (with a reset button to deal with tyre replacement) but has technical limitations explained on this (Schrader-sponsored ;-) ) webpage. http://tpmsmaderight.com/direct_vs_indirect.php The Ducato TPMS option is priced at £180 (VAT inc.) on my 2014 UK X290-model price-list. But the option wasn’t available for my Ducato-based Rapido motorhome, so I couldn’t have had it even if I would have liked to. Assuming that Peugeot (and Al-Ko) would advise inflation pressures of 72psi(front) and 80psi(rear) for 'camping-car’ tyres fitted to Bailey Boxer-based motorhomes, and that the TPMS system fitted to those vehicles should not warn until those pressure have dropped by at least 25%, a pressure reduction to 54psi(F) and 60psi® should be possible in principle without the TPMS issuing a warning. If Bailey motorhomes’ TPMS is warning at higher pressures, then either the system is designed to warn at a lower than 25% reduction from the ‘placard pressure’, or the system needs reprogramming to meet Baileys’ revised tyre-pressure recommendations before the motorhomes are delivered to customers. There’s a 2-page spread devoted to Bailey motorhomes in the January 2016 issue of MMM magazine (Pages 110-111) with lots of good words from Bailey senior management and, if Bailey owners are unhappy with the way their motorhomes’ TPMS is functioning, I suggest they get together and badger Bailey high-ups to get this sorted out satisfactorily and at no cost to them I think you might have more difficulty with Chausson as you wish to reduce the ‘placard pressures’ to improve your motorhome’s ride quality, but your TPMS does not warn when the tyres are inflated to the pressures advised by Fiat and (presumably) also by Chausson. I suspect that, if you want to use the pressures you’d like to, you’d need to fund the TPMS reprogramming yourself. (Worth contacting whoever sold you the Chausson though to see if they will be sympathetic.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I have recently bought a Bailey motorhome and on the N/S is sticker giving tyre pressures of 80 front 80 rear, this is the maximum allowed pressure for the continental CP 217/75-15 tyres with a load index of 109. If the tyres are set to this cold then with higher temperature the pressure will increase. My last van Peugeot Boxer 111 2012 the pressures were 60F 65R. I used to work for Goodyear tyres and one of my tasks was to inspect various fleets CV, light truck and truck. The pressures for CV Transit style vehicles would vary with the type of loads generally carried and operators wanted the best possible mileage so axle weight would determine the tyre pressures to be used and I would use as a reference a technical data books with tables. I feel the ride in my new van is too harsh and bouncy and as said if setting at 80PSI cold then the tyre pressure will increase and the tyre would be over its 80psi limit.. I have read all this tread but there are no conclusions and the last post was Dec 2015, so questions what is the TPMS tolerances figures quoted above are 25% has anyone tried this, are they any after market electronic devices able to reset the TPMS and as well as the dash warning light is there an audible warning and like some audible on Boxers can the audible warning be deleted by the mode button?. Does the TPMS give a warning if over pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malo37 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 80 psi seems excessive in any case. Have you checked your axle weights and consulted your tyre manufacturer ? My 3.5 tonne van pressures as recommended by Continental are 45psi front and 50 psi rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 urbanracer - 2016-06-19 7:43 PM I have recently bought a Bailey motorhome and on the N/S is sticker giving tyre pressures of 80 front 80 rear, this is the maximum allowed pressure for the continental CP 217/75-15 tyres with a load index of 109. If the tyres are set to this cold then with higher temperature the pressure will increase. My last van Peugeot Boxer 111 2012 the pressures were 60F 65R. I used to work for Goodyear tyres and one of my tasks was to inspect various fleets CV, light truck and truck. The pressures for CV Transit style vehicles would vary with the type of loads generally carried and operators wanted the best possible mileage so axle weight would determine the tyre pressures to be used and I would use as a reference a technical data books with tables. I feel the ride in my new van is too harsh and bouncy and as said if setting at 80PSI cold then the tyre pressure will increase and the tyre would be over its 80psi limit.. I have read all this tread but there are no conclusions and the last post was Dec 2015, so questions what is the TPMS tolerances figures quoted above are 25% has anyone tried this, are they any after market electronic devices able to reset the TPMS and as well as the dash warning light is there an audible warning and like some audible on Boxers can the audible warning be deleted by the mode button?. Does the TPMS give a warning if over pressure? I've always thought that a tyre's marked maximum PSI was in its cold state and that the tyre then had sufficient reserve to cope with predictable pressure increase from heat, change in altitude etc. Up until last year Bailey fitted only Michelin tyres and I believe that the 80psi rear axle recommendation is derived from Michelin's blanket advice that all motorhome rear tyres should be set to that pressure. Now that Bailey's are fitting other makes then they could perhaps specify lower rear pressures if they discussed this with their new suppliers i.e. Continental in your case, who may suggest a lower pressure for your axle weight. Regarding the 80psi front I wasn't aware that any Bailey had this recommended pressure (my 740 is stickered at 55psi) but looking through Bailey's published axle weights at MRO the 765 model has the highest front axle weight at 1700kg, so with passenger onboard and perhaps 2 people seated at the dinette seats it will be knocking on the door of its 1850kg front axle maximum (and possibly over with all belted setas occupied..). You don't say which model you have but if it were a 765 then this may be the reason for that 80psi front recommendation. Nothing can be set or reset regarding the TPMS via the MODE button. Dealers can adjust the trigger pressures and any device compatible with the Schrader EZ-TPMS system should also work, but I don't have any experience of this. I believe that TPMS warnings are only generated by under-pressure and not over-pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 ....just a quick update on this. The Multiecuscan software mentioned above is now (from 18/02/17) listed as supporting the Schrader TPMS, including adjustment. (The proof of the pudding, however.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong2 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I am in the process of trying to get my tpm settings lowered.peugeot dealer in my town said he cannot alter them .which I find hard to believe.sent a email to Peugeot to see if they can help me.terrible ride with such high pressures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 ....just to remove any confusion, Multiecuscan is designed to work with Fiat vehicles (many more than just the Ducato), but is unlikely to offer any usable function on the Peugeot Boxer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Armstrong2 It’s plain from previous comments here and on other motorhome forums that the TPMS system fitted to Peugeot Boxers can be adjusted by a Peugeot agent to cope with driver-specified tyre pressures. However, that doesn’t mean that every Peugeot agent will have the equipment and/or know-how to perform that task, or (as TPMS is a ‘safety’ system) will be willing to do it. It will be interesting to learn what Peugeot’s response to your query will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Robinhood - 2017-05-23 9:52 AM ....just to remove any confusion, Multiecuscan is designed to work with Fiat vehicles (many more than just the Ducato), but is unlikely to offer any usable function on the Peugeot Boxer.. Apparently it worked with Boxers based on the Ducato 250 in 2014, so I expect it will work on all Fiat derived vehicles. Can but try it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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