goldi Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Good evening folks, How long do you expect your leisure battery to last before replacement. ? norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 goldi - 2017-03-19 7:53 PM Good evening folks, How long do you expect your leisure battery to last before replacement. ? norm Good evening folks, How long is a piece of string? Keith. :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Deleted, as it didn't seem quite so funny after I posted it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Hi Norm, It all depends on a large number of factors, such as, what quality was the battery, how has it been treated, has it ever been allowed to go completely flat, is it on constant charge, etc, etc. So it is almost impossible to answer how long a battery will last. I fitted a Varta LFD90 five and a half years ago and it still appears to be going strong but then again we are very light electrical users and it has never been allowed to go flat. As for how long it will last from now, who knows? So the question really is 'How long is a piece of string? Keith.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 goldi - 2017-03-19 7:53 PM Good evening folks, How long do you expect your leisure battery to last before replacement. ? norm To give you an answer, for our use, we work on the basis of replacing the leisure battery after 3 to 4 years. Our normal use of the 'van is 140+ days a year and we do not have a TV, but do watch a DVD most nights for about an hour. The battery is charged (when off ehu) by a 100 watt solar panel and by normal driving. Most of our use is off ehu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 AMG 1 - 2 years, Gel 6 - 10 years, never used a standard wet cell so can't comment on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-03-19 8:04 PM Deleted, as it didn't seem quite so funny after I posted it! Oh come on Allen, it couldn't be as bad as Keith's bit of string and your view on gel batteries lasting 6 to 10 years would interest me?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 Good morning folks, Thanks for the replys. The other day I went out to the van to prepare for a couple of hours run whichI like to do to keep everything ok. The van is a little over three years old and still has the original leisure battery. It had been stood for two weeks without hook up and the step would not retract until the engine had put some more juice into the battery .The battery was in the red zone on the battery condition indicator so wondered what others expected of their leisure batteries. I am going to have to keep an eye on this as we are now coming to the travelling season for us.Thanks again for the replys norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 If your leisure-battery was well-charged to begin with, then - after just two weeks of ‘idleness’ - had become so discharged that it would not retract the step, I strongly suggest you replace it now even though its age is not much more than 3 years. You could test the battery’s present capacity by fully charging it and then placing a known electrical load on it, but the symptoms you’ve described indicate that it’s on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-03-21 8:55 AM If your leisure-battery was well-charged to begin with, then - after just two weeks of ‘idleness’ - had become so discharged that it would not retract the step, I strongly suggest you replace it now even though its age is not much more than 3 years. You could test the battery’s present capacity by fully charging it and then placing a known electrical load on it, but the symptoms you’ve described indicate that it’s on the way out. hello again Thanks for that Derek , that's what I am thinking, The last thing I want is to get somewhere pleasant and then have to start buggering about finding a new battery. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 keninpalamos - 2017-03-21 5:24 AM aandncaravan - 2017-03-19 8:04 PM Deleted, as it didn't seem quite so funny after I posted it! Oh come on Allen, it couldn't be as bad as Keith's bit of string and your view on gel batteries lasting 6 to 10 years would interest me?? It was about Keith's 'string'. I wrote that I had one very long piece of string and a very short piece, so did it help Keith with an answer? You can see why I deleted it!! I was trying to stay out of the thread as it is a really difficult one to comment on, most likely end up with me taking a lot of flak for going against the 'folklore'. Gel batteries and AGM batteries are generally (broad brush stuff) harder to consistently manufacture to a high standard, with out quality issues, than Wet batteries. In one survey of thousands of batteries they found that the failure rate of Gel/AGM's (VRLA) varied by manufacturer from an astonishing 86% to 25% or thereabouts. In other words, buying the best manufacturers batteries if you were 'lucky', resulted in only a 25% chance of it failing prematurely. But if you choose the worst manufacturer the chances of premature failure rose to 86%, which, when they cost close on £200 would make me cry!! So when we talk about Gel and lifetime it can be a bit of a minefield, as you have absolutely terrible Gel batteries and then you have top of the range Victron Energy Gel with claimed 4,500 cycle life. However, The Exide G80 gel battery usually found in Motorhomes has a really good reputation for long life and quality. In our experience 6 - 7 years is typical. Those that have 'lasted' beyond that age, are generally well down on capacity. The Exide G80 Gel battery generally doesn't shed paste as it corrodes/becomes used up, so it doesn't generally 'fail' from the like of Shorted Cells etc. What seems to happen is that it just slowly becomes exhausted as less material is converted back after each discharge. The 'effect' the owner sees is a battery that still holds a charge, charges up and discharges, but each charge cycle is shorter. Possibly only delivering 25Ah real power by the time it is 8 years old. Yet it has happened so slowly over so many years the owner often doesn't notice how little real power the battery gives on each cycle. Most people seem to rate a battery as 'failed' when it will no longer hold a charge, but the industry says a battery should be regarded as past it when it can no longer deliver 80% of it's rating. So it's a tricky question, should we say a battery has 'failed' when it will no longer deliver 80% of the rating on it's label or do we wait until it fails with a shorted Cell, a burnt out cell interconnect, dryed out, etc causing some charging systems failure as it goes? If we define a G80 battery as expired when it is below 80% of rated capacity, then probably about 4 - 5 years life on average? We used to say replace a battery at twice it's warranty period, but budget battery manufacturers brought out 'warranties' that had ridiculous periods of time, but multiple exclusion clauses, like you can't claim if you have ever used it. The Exide G80 is a really tough, deep cycle battery but it works best in cool environments. It doesn't like higher temperatures, fast charging or larger current draws than around 20 amps. Some mains chargers will charge a Gel at a much slower rate because of this. Just a 10 degree rise at the Plates can drop it's life by half. With more and more Motorhome owners drawing more power, charging faster, etc. all in hotter climes it is going to be a bigger issue. Long term Float charging by Solar panels isn't their favourite past time either, unless the voltage is down at 13.2v, they dry out. So while the G80 has delivered in the past, I think it might struggle a bit more in the future. In the image below see how on really high quality Victron Energy Long life batteries temperature absolutely decimates a Gels battery life. Just 20 degree rise drops a 12 year life battery to just 3 years. These batteries are the best of breed but you can see the effect of temperature quite clearly. As I say on the website AGM battery page, 40 degrees is not exactly a temperature that will burn your hands!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 So what happens to batteries that are beyond all life ? Are they - opened and re-built as new - melted to nothing - buried - or all the ingredients collected for future use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Hello, I don't know the answer to that but I do remember reading somewhere that the Lead Acid battery is the most recycled product on the Planet. Most Metal recyclers will pay around £10 for a motorhome sized battery to recover the Lead, how it is done or where it goes I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-03-21 10:47 PM So it's a tricky question, should we say a battery has 'failed' when it will no longer deliver 80% of the rating on it's label or do we wait until it fails with a shorted Cell, a burnt out cell interconnect, dryed out, etc causing some charging systems failure as it goes? Just out of interest. For telephony use and using wet-cell batteries, we used a figure of 70% as the replace figure i.e. When the measured capacity at the 20 hour rate was down to 70% of the rated figure, the batteries were changed. The 20 hour rate was chosen as the benchmark figure because batteries were expected to be able to power an exchange for a full day if required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Very interesting and a good read thanks Allen. I had two Exide gel 85ah batteries years ago and think they lasted about 3 years in North Africa and along the Med in Spain. Because my batteries are easy to access now I use open cell batteries. U.S. Trojan traction batteries 2 x 6v @ 240ah in series and a Sterling B to B charger with an up rated alternator. The down side is the weight but they are in a Hymer Tag axle van. I don't really need that much power now what with LED lighting etc and they rarely drop below 12.4/5v and then the sun comes up and the panels on the roof recharge at 12 to 13 amps available on a good day. When the batteries eventually die I will look for something not quite so industrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I didn't expect a 'Thanks', appreciated. I like the Trojans, very tough deep cyclers, but the major disadvantage (as per most of these old style units) from our point of view is the lower efficiency compared to the best, especially as they age. This obviously results in the charging systems working harder with less real power in return. I think most people view a battery as 100% efficient, when the worst can be less than 90%. Not sure about the Trojans technology, but most of the really deep discharge batteries have a high Antimony content. Antimony used to be the substance of choice for strengthening batteries, but it suffers from a number of issues, the 'worst' of which is Antimony poisoning. This occurs when a high Antimony based battery is kept on long term Float charge, such as permanent Solar charging. So, in our view, they are becoming less than ideal for most modern Motorhomes. If you have Solar on your Trojans, you will most likely prolong their life if you only Solar charge when the batteries need it, not use it as a battery maintainer. Unless your Solar regulator is one of the new style and only outputs 13.0v when in 'storage' mode?. A very good article on Antimony based batteries by Steve Clark at the bottom of our 'How does a battery Work' page : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/how-does-a-battery-work.php Please bear in mind that all the 'Battery' pages are currently being rewritten, I have a real battery expert helping me now. So although they will still be as unreadable as ever, some of the technical information should be a bit more accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I replace in 3 years in my experiences after that their not up to much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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