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Face Masks
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userJohn52
Posted: 14 July 2020 10:41 AM
Subject: Face Masks
 


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Now that BoJo has finally come around to doing what everyone else has - face masks in shops, looks like you will need one soon. Here in Scotland we have them already. I got the free paper one issued to everyone entering Waverly station.
But when I put it on it made me cough
And the more I try to stifle a cough the stronger the urge gets.
It only takes a tiny wood fibre from the paper in my lungs to make me cough.
I had to slip it down slightly and breathe through my nose.

So maybe best to get one and try wearing it at home before you go out.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/mixed-messages-mess-ups-boris-johnson-face-masks

Edited by John52 2020-07-14 10:42 AM
userBarryd999
Posted: 14 July 2020 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Why now and not months ago? Where is the science and data? What about pubs, offices? Shops only it seems where social distancing and one way systems have been in place for ages now. Pubs open, people get p*ssed and forget all about social distancing. There is no logic to anything this government do.
userJohn52
Posted: 14 July 2020 10:52 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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I've tried the same mask on since and it didn't make me cough - I think it was just the loose wood fibres in the paper when it was new.
But probably best to get a cloth one if paper fibres make you cough like they do me.
And wear it to blow the loose fibres out before you go in the shops with it

Edited by John52 2020-07-14 10:54 AM
userJohn52
Posted: 14 July 2020 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-07-14 10:44 AM

There is no logic to anything this government do.


Maybe their Etonian arrogance and superiority makes them think they know better.
What I find most remarkable is how an old Etonian Tory has convinced the plebs he is not part of the establishment
Some of them even call the PM by his first name like he is their personal friend

Edited by John52 2020-07-14 11:04 AM
userjumpstart
Posted: 14 July 2020 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 
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It’s compulsory in many places in Europe and from today in Mallorca.
I use a cloth mask which is more comfortable than paper ones.
I’ve just come back from the supermarket and other shops and certainly more people are wearing them,but it’s still only about 20% of people in the supermarket.
Quite why this government has taken this long to make a decision is beyond me. They really do faff around.
userJohn52
Posted: 14 July 2020 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-07-14 10:44 AM

Pubs open, people get p*ssed and forget all about social distancing. There is no logic to anything this government do.


Precisely.
They have opened pubs before Gyms
Only logic I can see is BoJo's Brexiteer supporter Tim Martin
His Wetherspoon chain will benefit more than anyone from BoJo's taxpayer subsidy
It could have been designed for him - pubs with a big floor area that do food.
userpelmetman
Posted: 15 July 2020 4:09 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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John52 - 2020-07-14 10:41 AM

Now that BoJo has finally come around to doing what everyone else has - face masks in shops, looks like you will need one soon. Here in Scotland we have them already. I got the free paper one issued to everyone entering Waverly station.
But when I put it on it made me cough
And the more I try to stifle a cough the stronger the urge gets.
It only takes a tiny wood fibre from the paper in my lungs to make me cough.
I had to slip it down slightly and breathe through my nose.

So maybe best to get one and try wearing it at home before you go out.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/mixed-messages-mess-ups-boris-johnson-face-masks


So make one out of a hanky .......

It's not rocket science ........

Any excuse to bash Boris eh? .......

But with a bit of luck we'll both get a win win .......

You will get Independence......and the English will get to save another fortune ........

userJohn52
Posted: 20 July 2020 8:12 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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pelmetman - 2020-07-15 4:09 PM


But with a bit of luck we'll both get a win win .......

You will get Independence......and the English will get to save another fortune ........



But we will save more than you when we haven't got BoJo and Brexit ruining our economy
userJohn52
Posted: 20 July 2020 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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jumpstart - 2020-07-14 11:13 AM

It’s compulsory in many places in Europe and from today in Mallorca.
I use a cloth mask which is more comfortable than paper ones.
I’ve just come back from the supermarket and other shops and certainly more people are wearing them,but it’s still only about 20% of people in the supermarket.
Quite why this government has taken this long to make a decision is beyond me. They really do faff around.


Every shop I went in on Sauchiehall street was selling them - Scotland has had them for so long people are wearing patterned ones like a fashion accessory. I got several, but they are all more uncomfortable than the free disposable paper masks they give out at places like Railway Stations. Because the paper ones are lighter I suppose.
But a face mask is still probably the most uncomfortable attire you will wear and you will always be glad to take it off.
Its just an irritation we have to put up with.
Just get a paper one, put it to your lips blow through it to blow out any loose fibres before you breath in through it, and wear it before you go into the shop to see if there are any loose fibres left in it that make you cough.
userjumpstart
Posted: 20 July 2020 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 
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Face masks are now compulsory in all public places in France.
You would have thought more people would wear them in supermarkets here as they will have to in a week’s time. But no most people still choose not to wear them. Amazing.
userJohn52
Posted: 20 July 2020 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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jumpstart - 2020-07-14 11:13 AM

I use a cloth mask which is more comfortable than paper ones.
.


I have to say I found the opposite.
Maybe I just got bad cloth masks and good paper ones,and you got the opposite
The cloth ones I got are quite thick with several layers, wheras the paper ones thin and light.
But they have all been a bit of an irritation I was glad to take off.
userjumpstart
Posted: 20 July 2020 7:56 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 
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THe bandanas I wear are single but you can double them. As I have used various dust masks on building sites I tend to find they make your ears ache. So the Bandana is quite comfortable.
userBirdbrain
Posted: 20 July 2020 7:59 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Riveting stuff fellas ... Almost turned the TV on
userpelmetman
Posted: 21 July 2020 7:40 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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John52 - 2020-07-20 8:12 AM

pelmetman - 2020-07-15 4:09 PM


But with a bit of luck we'll both get a win win .......

You will get Independence......and the English will get to save another fortune ........



But we will save more than you when we haven't got BoJo and Brexit ruining our economy


So will the EU make up the dosh you get from the Barnett formula? .........

BTW what will you call your currency? .........

The Bawbee would be apt .........

userJohn52
Posted: 21 July 2020 8:27 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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pelmetman - 2020-07-21 7:40 AM



So will the EU make up the dosh you get from the Barnett formula? .........



We'll make it ourselves once rid of BoJo
pelmetman - 2020-07-21 7:40 AM
BTW what will you call your currency? ........


The Euro
userpelmetman
Posted: 22 July 2020 7:44 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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John52 - 2020-07-21 8:27 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-21 7:40 AM



So will the EU make up the dosh you get from the Barnett formula? .........



We'll make it ourselves once rid of BoJo
pelmetman - 2020-07-21 7:40 AM
BTW what will you call your currency? ........


The Euro


You have to be a member of the EU to use the Euro ...........

Do you really think the EU will be keen to take onboard another basketcase economy in wake of Chinky Flu? ...........

userJohn52
Posted: 22 July 2020 8:04 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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pelmetman - 2020-07-22 7:44 AM

John52 - 2020-07-21 8:27 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-21 7:40 AM



So will the EU make up the dosh you get from the Barnett formula? .........



We'll make it ourselves once rid of BoJo
pelmetman - 2020-07-21 7:40 AM
BTW what will you call your currency? ........


The Euro


You have to be a member of the EU to use the Euro ...........

Do you really think the EU will be keen to take onboard another basketcase economy in wake of Chinky Flu? ...........



We won't be a basket case economy when all your factories have moved here to be on the right side of EU trade barriers
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 22 July 2020 6:26 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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On the subject of the string title, anyone reached any conclusions? My own take, based on our experience, is that they don't do what it says on the tin!

The virus is extremely small, and is carried in exhaled moisture droplets. Ideally, therefore, the mask should allow one's breath to pass through in both directions, as we breathe in and out, and should trap any moisture droplets/virus as it does so.

But, were air to be able to pass through that freely, it seems the filter medium would then be too coarse to trap either the moisture droplets or the virus.

The best readily available material that achieves the required level of filtration is apparently two/three layers of finely woven cotton, such as in pure cotton bed sheets. Synthetics are apparently of little use, as the fibres are too smooth to trap the droplets or any virus they may contain.

However, when a mask is made with two/three layers of the specified cotton, no breath can be exhaled or inhaled through it, because its resistance is too great. All that happens is that the breath, and so presumably any moisture droplets/virus it carries, is exhaled or inhaled via the periphery of the mask as the route of least resistance (which explains why, if you wear glasses, they immediately mist up!).

The same is true for the pleated paper clinical masks. Almost all air flows around, and not through, the filter medium.

So effectively one's choices are masks that don't filter because air, moisture, and virus can freely pass through them, so no virus is trapped, or masks that don't filter because no air, moisture, or virus can pass through them, but instead flows in and out round the edges, so no virus is trapped.

The only potential advantage of masks seems to be that in the latter case, because there is no through flow, and the breath is inhaled/exhaled around the edges of the mask, one does not project one's breath forward into atmosphere, but expels it in a ball of unknown proportion around one's head! I assume that may provide some protection for others (especially if one's been on the garlic!), but would be for all intents and purposes useless as protection from a virus rich atmosphere.

Anyone have any other thoughts? Is there a magic mask somewhere that reliably offers effective, actual, filtration, and where can it be obtained?
userBarryd999
Posted: 22 July 2020 6:52 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-07-22 6:26 PM

On the subject of the string title, anyone reached any conclusions? My own take, based on our experience, is that they don't do what it says on the tin!

The virus is extremely small, and is carried in exhaled moisture droplets. Ideally, therefore, the mask should allow one's breath to pass through in both directions, as we breathe in and out, and should trap any moisture droplets/virus as it does so.

But, were air to be able to pass through that freely, it seems the filter medium would then be too coarse to trap either the moisture droplets or the virus.

The best readily available material that achieves the required level of filtration is apparently two/three layers of finely woven cotton, such as in pure cotton bed sheets. Synthetics are apparently of little use, as the fibres are too smooth to trap the droplets or any virus they may contain.

However, when a mask is made with two/three layers of the specified cotton, no breath can be exhaled or inhaled through it, because its resistance is too great. All that happens is that the breath, and so presumably any moisture droplets/virus it carries, is exhaled or inhaled via the periphery of the mask as the route of least resistance (which explains why, if you wear glasses, they immediately mist up!).

The same is true for the pleated paper clinical masks. Almost all air flows around, and not through, the filter medium.

So effectively one's choices are masks that don't filter because air, moisture, and virus can freely pass through them, so no virus is trapped, or masks that don't filter because no air, moisture, or virus can pass through them, but instead flows in and out round the edges, so no virus is trapped.

The only potential advantage of masks seems to be that in the latter case, because there is no through flow, and the breath is inhaled/exhaled around the edges of the mask, one does not project one's breath forward into atmosphere, but expels it in a ball of unknown proportion around one's head! I assume that may provide some protection for others (especially if one's been on the garlic!), but would be for all intents and purposes useless as protection from a virus rich atmosphere.

Anyone have any other thoughts? Is there a magic mask somewhere that reliably offers effective, actual, filtration, and
where can it be obtained?


As I said earlier. Where is the science and data that the government have made this decision from and why now and not months ago? If they are now so important why are they only going to be enforced in shops and not pubs and offices where arguably you would spend much more time. As with the entire thing, the messages are confusing as we dont have the data. As for the masks themselves, people will just buy any old crap off the internet I suspect. I know Michelle bought two ready for this Friday but I wont be wearing one as I dont go in anywhere that will require one. Michelle goes in the butchers about once a fortnight and thats it.

Maybe its to get people used to it for whats coming but who knows, they dont share anything?
userBirdbrain
Posted: 22 July 2020 7:14 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-07-22 6:52 PM

Brian Kirby - 2020-07-22 6:26 PM

On the subject of the string title, anyone reached any conclusions? My own take, based on our experience, is that they don't do what it says on the tin!

The virus is extremely small, and is carried in exhaled moisture droplets. Ideally, therefore, the mask should allow one's breath to pass through in both directions, as we breathe in and out, and should trap any moisture droplets/virus as it does so.

But, were air to be able to pass through that freely, it seems the filter medium would then be too coarse to trap either the moisture droplets or the virus.

The best readily available material that achieves the required level of filtration is apparently two/three layers of finely woven cotton, such as in pure cotton bed sheets. Synthetics are apparently of little use, as the fibres are too smooth to trap the droplets or any virus they may contain.

However, when a mask is made with two/three layers of the specified cotton, no breath can be exhaled or inhaled through it, because its resistance is too great. All that happens is that the breath, and so presumably any moisture droplets/virus it carries, is exhaled or inhaled via the periphery of the mask as the route of least resistance (which explains why, if you wear glasses, they immediately mist up!).

The same is true for the pleated paper clinical masks. Almost all air flows around, and not through, the filter medium.

So effectively one's choices are masks that don't filter because air, moisture, and virus can freely pass through them, so no virus is trapped, or masks that don't filter because no air, moisture, or virus can pass through them, but instead flows in and out round the edges, so no virus is trapped.

The only potential advantage of masks seems to be that in the latter case, because there is no through flow, and the breath is inhaled/exhaled around the edges of the mask, one does not project one's breath forward into atmosphere, but expels it in a ball of unknown proportion around one's head! I assume that may provide some protection for others (especially if one's been on the garlic!), but would be for all intents and purposes useless as protection from a virus rich atmosphere.

Anyone have any other thoughts? Is there a magic mask somewhere that reliably offers effective, actual, filtration, and
where can it be obtained?


As I said earlier. Where is the science and data that the government have made this decision from and why now and not months ago? If they are now so important why are they only going to be enforced in shops and not pubs and offices where arguably you would spend much more time. As with the entire thing, the messages are confusing as we dont have the data. As for the masks themselves, people will just buy any old crap off the internet I suspect. I know Michelle bought two ready for this Friday but I wont be wearing one as I dont go in anywhere that will require one. Michelle goes in the butchers about once a fortnight and thats it.

Maybe its to get people used to it for whats coming but who knows, they dont share anything?


Think you'll be safe in ya bedroom princess
userjumpstart
Posted: 22 July 2020 8:37 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 
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In answer to your question Brian, there is no manic bullet. From the information I have read wearing a mask of any sort is likely to reduce the possibility of getting CV19 by about 60% compared with someone not wearing one.
As I have said above I wear a bandana doubled over and certainly it gets a little moist inside with prolonged use say 1 hr. It’s more comfortable than elastic hooked over ears,it also covers more of the face and under your chin.
userpelmetman
Posted: 22 July 2020 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-07-22 6:26 PM

On the subject of the string title, anyone reached any conclusions? My own take, based on our experience, is that they don't do what it says on the tin!

The virus is extremely small, and is carried in exhaled moisture droplets. Ideally, therefore, the mask should allow one's breath to pass through in both directions, as we breathe in and out, and should trap any moisture droplets/virus as it does so.

But, were air to be able to pass through that freely, it seems the filter medium would then be too coarse to trap either the moisture droplets or the virus.

The best readily available material that achieves the required level of filtration is apparently two/three layers of finely woven cotton, such as in pure cotton bed sheets. Synthetics are apparently of little use, as the fibres are too smooth to trap the droplets or any virus they may contain.

However, when a mask is made with two/three layers of the specified cotton, no breath can be exhaled or inhaled through it, because its resistance is too great. All that happens is that the breath, and so presumably any moisture droplets/virus it carries, is exhaled or inhaled via the periphery of the mask as the route of least resistance (which explains why, if you wear glasses, they immediately mist up!).

The same is true for the pleated paper clinical masks. Almost all air flows around, and not through, the filter medium.

So effectively one's choices are masks that don't filter because air, moisture, and virus can freely pass through them, so no virus is trapped, or masks that don't filter because no air, moisture, or virus can pass through them, but instead flows in and out round the edges, so no virus is trapped.

The only potential advantage of masks seems to be that in the latter case, because there is no through flow, and the breath is inhaled/exhaled around the edges of the mask, one does not project one's breath forward into atmosphere, but expels it in a ball of unknown proportion around one's head! I assume that may provide some protection for others (especially if one's been on the garlic!), but would be for all intents and purposes useless as protection from a virus rich atmosphere.

Anyone have any other thoughts? Is there a magic mask somewhere that reliably offers effective, actual, filtration, and where can it be obtained?


Those of us who recall their NBCD ( Nuclear Biological Chemical Defence ) training will know that a mask will help ......

If used sensibly .......

Which is why I can see why Boris is reluctant in telling our 48% resident Loser population to use them .......

Coz they're as thick as mince ........

userpelmetman
Posted: 22 July 2020 8:59 PM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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jumpstart - 2020-07-22 8:37 PM

In answer to your question Brian, there is no manic bullet. From the information I have read wearing a mask of any sort is likely to reduce the possibility of getting CV19 by about 60% compared with someone not wearing one.
As I have said above I wear a bandana doubled over and certainly it gets a little moist inside with prolonged use say 1 hr. It’s more comfortable than elastic hooked over ears,it also covers more of the face and under your chin.


Actually there is ........

They're called gas masks ......

Because face masks only prevents the Chinky Flu from entering via mouth and nose .....

The eyes are equally capable of admitting the lurgy ........







Edited by pelmetman 2020-07-22 9:00 PM
userJohn52
Posted: 23 July 2020 8:05 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-07-22 6:26 PM


However, when a mask is made with two/three layers of the specified cotton, no breath can be exhaled or inhaled through it, because its resistance is too great. All that happens is that the breath, and so presumably any moisture droplets/virus it carries, is exhaled or inhaled via the periphery of the mask as the route of least resistance (which explains why, if you wear glasses, they immediately mist up!).


Yes thats the ones I got from the shops on Sachiehall Street - which has given me a different opinion to jumpstart, because I find this type of cloth mask is heavier and more irritating than the paper ones.
userJohn52
Posted: 23 July 2020 8:10 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-07-22 6:52 PM


As I said earlier. Where is the science and data that the government have made this decision from and why now and not months ago?


Because if everyone had been wearing them months ago it would increase the shortage on the NHS.
Policy was to avoid the political embarassment of the NHS being overwhelmed, hence we were told not to call them if we got the virus, just go home and die so we were not counted as a Covid death.
userJohn52
Posted: 23 July 2020 8:20 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-07-22 6:26 PM



The virus is extremely small, and is carried in exhaled moisture droplets. Ideally, therefore, the mask should allow one's breath to pass through in both directions, as we breathe in and out, and should trap any moisture droplets/virus as it does so.


I don't know, but imagine the moisture droplets more likely to be absorbed by the fabric than the air. Also, being heavier than air, more likely to be projected into the fabric. Like if you have ball bearings blasted by a current of air (the equivalent of an infected person coughing) The ball bearings would keep going straigh into the face mask, whilst only the air curls around it?

But I think its the reopening the pubs that will create the second wave.
Drunks don't do social distancing.
Walking around the windswept harbour in Oban, I went into the pub area and there is a sign saying you are now entering a 1 metre social distancing area.
How absurd that outside in the windswept harbour its 2 metres, whilst indoors its only 1 metre.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 23 July 2020 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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jumpstart - 2020-07-22 8:37 PM
In answer to your question Brian, there is no manic bullet. From the information I have read wearing a mask of any sort is likely to reduce the possibility of getting CV19 by about 60% compared with someone not wearing one.
As I have said above I wear a bandana doubled over and certainly it gets a little moist inside with prolonged use say 1 hr. It’s more comfortable than elastic hooked over ears,it also covers more of the face and under your chin.

Fine, but does it actually work. What mask did those who arrived at the 60% reduction figure actually test? What is actually ordered is a face covering, so what actually qualifies as a face covering? As it stands, this is no more than legally required virtue signalling.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 23 July 2020 8:58 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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pelmetman - 2020-07-22 8:53 PM...…………………..Those of us who recall their NBCD ( Nuclear Biological Chemical Defence ) training will know that a mask will help ......
If used sensibly .......
Which is why I can see why Boris is reluctant in telling our 48% resident Loser population to use them .......
Coz they're as thick as mince ........

Says he who can't see any difference between nuclear fallout and a virus. No s**t, Sherlock!
userJohn52
Posted: 23 July 2020 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-07-23 8:58 AM

pelmetman - 2020-07-22 8:53 PM...…………………..Those of us who recall their NBCD ( Nuclear Biological Chemical Defence ) training will know that a mask will help ......
If used sensibly .......
Which is why I can see why Boris is reluctant in telling our 48% resident Loser population to use them .......
Coz they're as thick as mince ........

Says he who can't see any difference between nuclear fallout and a virus. No s**t, Sherlock!


Classic
userJohn52
Posted: 23 July 2020 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: Face Masks
 


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Brian Kirby - 2020-07-23 8:56 AM

Fine, but does it actually work..


Good Question.
I have just held a thin cloth over the spout of a boiling kettle.
Best I can do to replicate someone coughing up the virus in water droplets.
I thought the cloth would catch the water droplets in the steam, but it didn't.
Steam came straight through and the cloth remained dry
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