John52 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-07-22 6:26 PM The virus is extremely small, and is carried in exhaled moisture droplets. Ideally, therefore, the mask should allow one's breath to pass through in both directions, as we breathe in and out, and should trap any moisture droplets/virus as it does so. I don't know, but imagine the moisture droplets more likely to be absorbed by the fabric than the air. Also, being heavier than air, more likely to be projected into the fabric. Like if you have ball bearings blasted by a current of air (the equivalent of an infected person coughing) The ball bearings would keep going straigh into the face mask, whilst only the air curls around it? But I think its the reopening the pubs that will create the second wave. Drunks don't do social distancing. Walking around the windswept harbour in Oban, I went into the pub area and there is a sign saying you are now entering a 1 metre social distancing area. How absurd that outside in the windswept harbour its 2 metres, whilst indoors its only 1 metre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-07-22 8:37 PM In answer to your question Brian, there is no manic bullet. From the information I have read wearing a mask of any sort is likely to reduce the possibility of getting CV19 by about 60% compared with someone not wearing one. As I have said above I wear a bandana doubled over and certainly it gets a little moist inside with prolonged use say 1 hr. It’s more comfortable than elastic hooked over ears,it also covers more of the face and under your chin. Fine, but does it actually work. What mask did those who arrived at the 60% reduction figure actually test? What is actually ordered is a face covering, so what actually qualifies as a face covering? As it stands, this is no more than legally required virtue signalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-07-22 8:53 PM...…………………..Those of us who recall their NBCD ( Nuclear Biological Chemical Defence ) training will know that a mask will help ;-) ...... If used sensibly :-| ....... Which is why I can see why Boris is reluctant in telling our 48% resident Loser population to use them *-) ....... Coz they're as thick as mince >:-) ........ Says he who can't see any difference between nuclear fallout and a virus. No s**t, Sherlock! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-07-23 8:58 AM pelmetman - 2020-07-22 8:53 PM...…………………..Those of us who recall their NBCD ( Nuclear Biological Chemical Defence ) training will know that a mask will help ;-) ...... If used sensibly :-| ....... Which is why I can see why Boris is reluctant in telling our 48% resident Loser population to use them *-) ....... Coz they're as thick as mince >:-) ........ Says he who can't see any difference between nuclear fallout and a virus. No s**t, Sherlock! :-D Classic (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-07-23 8:56 AM Fine, but does it actually work.. Good Question. I have just held a thin cloth over the spout of a boiling kettle. Best I can do to replicate someone coughing up the virus in water droplets. I thought the cloth would catch the water droplets in the steam, but it didn't. Steam came straight through and the cloth remained dry 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-07-23 8:58 AM pelmetman - 2020-07-22 8:53 PM...…………………..Those of us who recall their NBCD ( Nuclear Biological Chemical Defence ) training will know that a mask will help ;-) ...... If used sensibly :-| ....... Which is why I can see why Boris is reluctant in telling our 48% resident Loser population to use them *-) ....... Coz they're as thick as mince >:-) ........ Says he who can't see any difference between nuclear fallout and a virus. No s**t, Sherlock! :-D Did you miss the word Biological Brian? ;-) ...........AKA GERM WAREFARE *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-07-23 3:29 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-07-23 8:58 AM pelmetman - 2020-07-22 8:53 PM...…………………..Those of us who recall their NBCD ( Nuclear Biological Chemical Defence ) training will know that a mask will help ;-) ...... If used sensibly :-| ....... Which is why I can see why Boris is reluctant in telling our 48% resident Loser population to use them *-) ....... Coz they're as thick as mince >:-) ........ Says he who can't see any difference between nuclear fallout and a virus. No s**t, Sherlock! :-D Did you miss the word Biological Brian? ;-) ...........AKA GERM WAREFARE *-) ......... Er, no Dave, but it never occurred you'd be wandering around your local Tesco wearing one of those! The requirement is a face covering, not the full NBC Monty. Surely, even you must feel a bit of a tit in that! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I think that would suit Pelmetfeatures down to the ground.. He said he likes to put his money where his mouth is....but hey presto this should fill the gap between his lips just as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-07-23 7:12 PM pelmetman - 2020-07-23 3:29 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-07-23 8:58 AM pelmetman - 2020-07-22 8:53 PM...…………………..Those of us who recall their NBCD ( Nuclear Biological Chemical Defence ) training will know that a mask will help ;-) ...... If used sensibly :-| ....... Which is why I can see why Boris is reluctant in telling our 48% resident Loser population to use them *-) ....... Coz they're as thick as mince >:-) ........ Says he who can't see any difference between nuclear fallout and a virus. No s**t, Sherlock! :-D Did you miss the word Biological Brian? ;-) ...........AKA GERM WAREFARE *-) ......... Er, no Dave, but it never occurred you'd be wandering around your local Tesco wearing one of those! The requirement is a face covering, not the full NBC Monty. Surely, even you must feel a bit of a tit in that! :-D If I could get one I would wear it ;-) .......... I'd rather be a live Tit than a dead Tw :D t......... BTW why do you think NHS staff wear a MASK and a VISOR (?) ........ Because they know the virus can enter through the eyes *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-07-24 9:32 AM BTW why do you think NHS staff wear a MASK and a VISOR (?) ........ It's because most of the people they get in close contact with, sometimes for long periods, are ILL, Dave. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Why do you think Hospital staff wearing PPE still died. It’s because they were exposed to so much virus. The point of the masks we wear is just to limit the risk of us getting it ,not to stop it 100%. Having just been to two large supermarkets I noticed that whilst every customer was wearing a mask most of the staff were not ,in both stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-07-24 10:58 AM 1 Why do you think Hospital staff wearing PPE still died. It’s because they were exposed to so much virus. 2 The point of the masks we wear is just to limit the risk of us getting it ,not to stop it 100%.……………………….. 1 Not really. It is basically because even the NHS issue clinical masks plus vizors did not adequately protect them from the virus. 2 Again not really. It has been accepted that the "mask" offers little to no protection to the wearer, and only limited protection for others if the wearer is infected. But, for this to be true, we have to know what is meant by a "mask", or "face covering". There has to be a specification of some sort, to be able to a) decide if its absence opens liability to a fine, and b) to decide if its presence eliminates that liability. Would wearing a drawing of a mask be OK? How about an imaginary mask? Dave's NBC job would undoubtedly be OK (the picture came from Amazon Dave, where they're on sale.) but at the moment the requirement is about as clear as asking someone to go out and buy "some wood". The requirement is: "Under the new regulations laid today, members of the public will need to wear face coverings – for example, a fabric covering, scarf or bandana – that covers the nose and mouth………….." It goes on "Face coverings will not be mandatory for: •anyone under the age of 11 •those with disabilities or certain health conditions, such as respiratory or cognitive impairments that make it difficult for them to wear a face covering...…………." And adds: "There is evidence to suggest that, when used correctly, face coverings may reduce the likelihood of someone with the infection passing it on to others, particularly if they are asymptomatic." So, if it hasn't worked, whatever it was you weren't using it correctly! :-D So, in the case of "fabric covering", what fabric? In the case of "scarf, or bandana", made of what, FGS? Or doesn't it matter so long as it "looks like"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-07-24 1:09 PM jumpstart - 2020-07-24 10:58 AM 1 Why do you think Hospital staff wearing PPE still died. It’s because they were exposed to so much virus. 2 The point of the masks we wear is just to limit the risk of us getting it ,not to stop it 100%.……………………….. 1 Not really. It is basically because even the NHS issue clinical masks plus vizors did not adequately protect them from the virus. 2 Again not really. It has been accepted that the "mask" offers little to no protection to the wearer, and only limited protection for others if the wearer is infected. But, for this to be true, we have to know what is meant by a "mask", or "face covering". There has to be a specification of some sort, to be able to a) decide if its absence opens liability to a fine, and b) to decide if its presence eliminates that liability. Would wearing a drawing of a mask be OK? How about an imaginary mask? Dave's NBC job would undoubtedly be OK (the picture came from Amazon Dave, where they're on sale.) but at the moment the requirement is about as clear as asking someone to go out and buy "some wood". The requirement is: "Under the new regulations laid today, members of the public will need to wear face coverings – for example, a fabric covering, scarf or bandana – that covers the nose and mouth………….." It goes on "Face coverings will not be mandatory for: •anyone under the age of 11 •those with disabilities or certain health conditions, such as respiratory or cognitive impairments that make it difficult for them to wear a face covering...…………." And adds: "There is evidence to suggest that, when used correctly, face coverings may reduce the likelihood of someone with the infection passing it on to others, particularly if they are asymptomatic." So, if it hasn't worked, whatever it was you weren't using it correctly! :-D So, in the case of "fabric covering", what fabric? In the case of "scarf, or bandana", made of what, FGS? Or doesn't it matter so long as it "looks like"? Not sure you are completely right Brian. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent According to the Center for Disease Control in America they say cloth masks are what they advise as it tends to limit the spread. It is effective both for those with cv19 and those who are clear. The concept is risk reduction rather than illimination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 24, 2020 Author Share Posted July 24, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-07-24 10:58 AM I noticed that whilst every customer was wearing a mask most of the staff were not ,in both stores. I can understand that - seems to me staff are unlikely to go in if infected, but shoppers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-07-20 7:59 PM Riveting stuff fellas ... Almost turned the TV on Post some Riveting stuff on the subject yourself then *-) You must be interested in Face Masks to click on a thread titled Face Masks You haven't paid to read this, the forum content is provided free by the members, of which you are one. So the forum content is as much your responsibility as anyone else's. There is no better lesson than a good example. So show us what you can do *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 John52 - 2020-07-25 6:47 AM Birdbrain - 2020-07-20 7:59 PM Riveting stuff fellas ... Almost turned the TV on Post some Riveting stuff on the subject yourself then *-) You must be interested in Face Masks to click on a thread titled Face Masks You haven't paid to read this, the forum content is provided free by the members, of which you are one. So the forum content is as much your responsibility as anyone else's. There is no better lesson than a good example. So show us what you can do *-) Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-07-24 3:36 PM………………………... Not sure you are completely right Brian. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent According to the Center for Disease Control in America they say cloth masks are what they advise as it tends to limit the spread. It is effective both for those with cv19 and those who are clear. The concept is risk reduction rather than illimination. Good find, John, thanks. It's fairly dense, but your conclusion coincides with my own. I followed the lead author (Jeremy P Howard) to the University of San Francisco, where he has further related papers published. The problem with the American stuff is that suitable mask materials are suggested under trade names which are not present in UK. He concludes that the principal benefit is to others rather than to the wearer, and that because masks will be of varying materials no performance criteria can be established, so risk reduction is the best that can be expected. It is also clear there is no "gold standard" design, just that anything is better than nothing, albeit the benefit may be small, and is likely to depend on the chance properties of what is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 I sort of feel something is better than nothing. Interestingly the only person I have got near to recently is my granddaughter who was going to preschool. . About 5 days ago I had a sore throat. Then blowing my nose a lot so first thought ...oh god ..is this it. No other symptoms. 3 days later all gone. But just shows how easy it is to pick something up even when trying to be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 malc d - 2020-07-24 9:43 AM pelmetman - 2020-07-24 9:32 AM BTW why do you think NHS staff wear a MASK and a VISOR (?) ........ It's because most of the people they get in close contact with, sometimes for long periods, are ILL, Dave. :-| So the people they were in close contact with for long periods before Chinky Flu weren't ill? *-) .......... Stop being obtuse Malc.......it dosen't suit you ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-07-26 10:16 AM malc d - 2020-07-24 9:43 AM pelmetman - 2020-07-24 9:32 AM BTW why do you think NHS staff wear a MASK and a VISOR (?) ........ It's because most of the people they get in close contact with, sometimes for long periods, are ILL, Dave. :-| So the people they were in close contact with for long periods before Chinky Flu weren't ill? *-) .......... Stop being obtuse Malc.......it dosen't suit you ;-) .......... You asked the question " what do you think " - and I told you what I think Dave. That's not obtuse - that's helpful. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted July 26, 2020 Author Share Posted July 26, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-07-26 10:16 AM :D .......... Your best post so far If only the others were as brief :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 malc d - 2020-07-26 11:01 AM pelmetman - 2020-07-26 10:16 AM malc d - 2020-07-24 9:43 AM pelmetman - 2020-07-24 9:32 AM BTW why do you think NHS staff wear a MASK and a VISOR (?) ........ It's because most of the people they get in close contact with, sometimes for long periods, are ILL, Dave. :-| So the people they were in close contact with for long periods before Chinky Flu weren't ill? *-) .......... Stop being obtuse Malc.......it dosen't suit you ;-) .......... You asked the question " what do you think " - and I told you what I think Dave. That's not obtuse - that's helpful. :-| Nope........That's being naive ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.