Bulletguy Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 This article from The Telegraph......ouch!! (NB: thread title is from The Telegraph). There was never anything to be gained from delaying the lockdown once the brushfire had slipped control due to lack of testing/tracing. Each three days of prevarication meant a doubling of the infection case load. It was to sink deeper into the quagmire. Nor did the SAGE committee ever have a sufficient grasp of the basic facts to fine-tune the timing, let alone to play God. The facts will out but it is hard to escape the conclusion that this secretive body – neither institutional fish nor fowl, with opaque responsibilities – gravely misjudged the speed of contagion long after the danger was obvious to virologists, immunologists, and epidemiologists across the world, and indeed to anybody paying attention. A Covid cardiologist at a top London hospital – friendly to Boris – has been so incensed by the daily charade of bogus omniscience that he vented his spleen in an email to me on Sunday night. It is a poignant indictment, so I pass along a few snippets. Basically, every mistake that could have been made, was made. He likened the care home policy to the Siege of Caffa in 1346, that grim chapter of the Black Death when a Mongol army catapulted plague-ridden bodies over the walls. “Our policy was to let the virus rip and then ‘cocoon the elderly’,” he wrote. “You don’t know whether to laugh or cry when you contrast that with what we actually did. We discharged known, suspected, and unknown cases into care homes which were unprepared, with no formal warning that the patients were infected, no testing available, and no PPE to prevent transmission. We actively seeded this into the very population that was most vulnerable. “We let these people die without palliation. The official policy was not to visit care homes – and they didn’t (and still don’t). https://outline.com/38a3fF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Oh good yet another Government hate thread ... is there really no way you can tie all these hate threads into one as you now have that many Government hate threads on here its slowing down the speed of the site ... Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I'll ignore the usual straw man trolling from Antony so as not to clog up the thread and slow down the speed of the site.The Telegraph article is obviously right, I'm just a bit surprised to read it in the Telegraph, given its history of being a cheerleader for BoJo. Last I heard its circulation had fallen and it was heavily loss making. Not enough people subscribed - and why should they pay for a party political broadcast?So maybe they just can't cover up all BoJo's blunders any more, and are trying to restore some credibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-05-16 11:28 PM A Covid cardiologist at a top London hospital – friendly to Boris – has been so incensed by the daily charade of bogus omniscience https://outline.com/38a3fF No wonder BoJo needs his Spin Doctor on the SAGE committee to deal with the findings before they get to the press :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-17 7:26 AM I'll ignore the usual straw man trolling from Antony so as not to clog up the thread and slow down the speed of the site. The Telegraph article is obviously right, I'm just a bit surprised to read it in the Telegraph, given its history of being a cheerleader for BoJo. Last I heard its circulation had fallen and it was heavily loss making. Not enough people subscribed - and why should they pay for a party political broadcast? So maybe they just can't cover up all BoJo's blunders any more, and are trying to restore some credibility? How is asking a member to club together his/her threads into one thread that covers all his/her dislikes of our Governments handling of the China Virus "trolling" exactly ??? ... Is it your way of trying to shut me down ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-17 7:26 AM I'll ignore the usual straw man trolling from Antony so as not to clog up the thread and slow down the speed of the site. The Telegraph article is obviously right, I'm just a bit surprised to read it in the Telegraph, given its history of being a cheerleader for BoJo. Last I heard its circulation had fallen and it was heavily loss making. Not enough people subscribed - and why should they pay for a party political broadcast? So maybe they just can't cover up all BoJo's blunders any more, and are trying to restore some credibility? By far the best approach John (bib) so his pointless posts and attempts to derail threads are ignored, leaving thread topics open to be discussed among adults. I've found established right wing media previously known for their support of the Conservative party have fast been losing faith and support especially since witnessing this governments handling of Covid-19 and realising Johnson is not fit to lead, as of course many were forewarned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I think Antony should first read the whole article, and then comment. Bullet's link didn't work for me, but by searching for it under the title of this string on the Telegraph website I was able to find it (Telegraph of 12 May, by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard) and then copying its URL into the search box in Outline.com it opened in full to read. After all, this is from the Telegraph (owned by the Barclay brothers!), not some left-wing rag, and it is far more critical, with coalface detail, than anything I have been criticised for posting on here. Those who want to keep their comfort blankets wrapped safely around them while they suck their thumbs through the thunderstorm should probably not read, but anyone who wants to read an apparently well informed critique of the performance of our government over Covid-19, with corroborative detail, definitely should. The author has an impressive Conservative pedigree, is an author in his own right, and has written for the Spectator and the Economist before the Telegraph - so is hardly some pinko anarchist! Go read! It is quite a critique. Talk about friendly fire. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 The Tories will be in trouble if the media turns against them which it seems it is doing. Seems public opinion is changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I could take issue with 'British' when it should say 'English'But its otherwise so good I really don't like to criticise it :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-17 4:51 PM I think Antony should first read the whole article, and then comment. Bullet's link didn't work for me, but by searching for it under the title of this string on the Telegraph website I was able to find it (Telegraph of 12 May, by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard) and then copying its URL into the search box in Outline.com it opened in full to read. After all, this is from the Telegraph (owned by the Barclay brothers!), not some left-wing rag, and it is far more critical, with coalface detail, than anything I have been criticised for posting on here. Those who want to keep their comfort blankets wrapped safely around them while they suck their thumbs through the thunderstorm should probably not read, but anyone who wants to read an apparently well informed critique of the performance of our government over Covid-19, with corroborative detail, definitely should. The author has an impressive Conservative pedigree, is an author in his own right, and has written for the Spectator and the Economist before the Telegraph - so is hardly some pinko anarchist! Go read! It is quite a critique. Talk about friendly fire. :-D If you notice I question only why the OP cant put all his countless China Virus/Tory threads into one , then by doing so I am accused of trolling that cant be backed up by him or the fella that poos in bags and chucks it in public bins ... Strange world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-05-17 5:34 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-17 4:51 PM I think Antony should first read the whole article, and then comment. Bullet's link didn't work for me, but by searching for it under the title of this string on the Telegraph website I was able to find it (Telegraph of 12 May, by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard) and then copying its URL into the search box in Outline.com it opened in full to read. After all, this is from the Telegraph (owned by the Barclay brothers!), not some left-wing rag, and it is far more critical, with coalface detail, than anything I have been criticised for posting on here. Those who want to keep their comfort blankets wrapped safely around them while they suck their thumbs through the thunderstorm should probably not read, but anyone who wants to read an apparently well informed critique of the performance of our government over Covid-19, with corroborative detail, definitely should. The author has an impressive Conservative pedigree, is an author in his own right, and has written for the Spectator and the Economist before the Telegraph - so is hardly some pinko anarchist! Go read! It is quite a critique. Talk about friendly fire. :-D If you notice I question only why the OP cant put all his countless China Virus/Tory threads into one , then by doing so I am accused of trolling that cant be backed up by him or the fella that poos in bags and chucks it in public bins ... Strange world I did, which is why I suggested you read the article. Have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-17 4:51 PM I think Antony should first read the whole article, and then comment. Bullet's link didn't work for me, but by searching for it under the title of this string on the Telegraph website I was able to find it (Telegraph of 12 May, by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard) and then copying its URL into the search box in Outline.com it opened in full to read. After all, this is from the Telegraph (owned by the Barclay brothers!), not some left-wing rag, and it is far more critical, with coalface detail, than anything I have been criticised for posting on here. Those who want to keep their comfort blankets wrapped safely around them while they suck their thumbs through the thunderstorm should probably not read, but anyone who wants to read an apparently well informed critique of the performance of our government over Covid-19, with corroborative detail, definitely should. The author has an impressive Conservative pedigree, is an author in his own right, and has written for the Spectator and the Economist before the Telegraph - so is hardly some pinko anarchist! Go read! It is quite a critique. Talk about friendly fire. :-D Yes i forgot to mention being in The Telegraph the article is paywalled hence why it was opened into Outline. Clicking the Telegraph logo on the left takes you straight to the original link; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/12/governments-handling-covid-19-british-disaster/ Bolded is exactly what i thought when i first read it. Very 'uncomfortable' reading for some.....though i doubt they will read it and prefer to remain in denial with heads buried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-17 5:37 PM Birdbrain - 2020-05-17 5:34 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-17 4:51 PM I think Antony should first read the whole article, and then comment. Bullet's link didn't work for me, but by searching for it under the title of this string on the Telegraph website I was able to find it (Telegraph of 12 May, by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard) and then copying its URL into the search box in Outline.com it opened in full to read. After all, this is from the Telegraph (owned by the Barclay brothers!), not some left-wing rag, and it is far more critical, with coalface detail, than anything I have been criticised for posting on here. Those who want to keep their comfort blankets wrapped safely around them while they suck their thumbs through the thunderstorm should probably not read, but anyone who wants to read an apparently well informed critique of the performance of our government over Covid-19, with corroborative detail, definitely should. The author has an impressive Conservative pedigree, is an author in his own right, and has written for the Spectator and the Economist before the Telegraph - so is hardly some pinko anarchist! Go read! It is quite a critique. Talk about friendly fire. :-D If you notice I question only why the OP cant put all his countless China Virus/Tory threads into one , then by doing so I am accused of trolling that cant be backed up by him or the fella that poos in bags and chucks it in public bins ... Strange world I did, which is why I suggested you read the article. Have you? Before you did ... Und ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-05-17 5:49 PM.................... Before you did ... Und ??? Reaction/conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 “Blind faith in your leaders, or in anything, will get you killed.”Bruce Springsteen 1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Just one tiny flaw in the argument. Who discharged the elderly from Hospital and into Care Homes? Was it the Conservative Government or was it the NHS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 747 - 2020-05-17 9:57 PM Just one tiny flaw in the argument. Who discharged the elderly from Hospital and into Care Homes? Was it the Conservative Government or was it the NHS? That might well become the Governments new slogan : " Everything that went wrong was organised by the NHS Everything that went right was organised by the government " :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 747 - 2020-05-17 9:57 PM Just one tiny flaw in the argument. Who discharged the elderly from Hospital and into Care Homes? Was it the Conservative Government or was it the NHS? Who issued the directives and advice......the NHS, or government? Draw your conclusion from this; At PMQs on Wednesday Boris Johnson denied an accusation by Sir Keir Starmer that early in the crisis hospital patients with Covid-19 had been "seeded" into care homes because people with symptoms did not require a negative test result before being discharged. The prime minister claimed the government had "a system of testing people going into care homes" and that testing was being "ramped up". However, government care home advice prior to April 15 said: "Negative tests are not required prior to transfers/admissions into the care home." Following the row in PMQs, NHS Providers CEO Chris Hopson issued a statement denying NHS Trusts were "systematically discharging" patients into care homes. "Trusts deeply resent this suggestion," he said. "It is categorically not true to say that NHS trusts have been systematically discharging patients they know or suspected had Covid-19 into care homes." However, the statement also admits that capacity issues meant tests could not be carried out consistently on all patients going into care homes until "mid-April". https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-14/care-homes-coronavirus-crisis/ Sir Keir Starmer also challenged Johnson about it at PMQ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-17 10:08 PM 747 - 2020-05-17 9:57 PM Just one tiny flaw in the argument. Who discharged the elderly from Hospital and into Care Homes? Was it the Conservative Government or was it the NHS? That might well become the Governments new slogan : " Everything that went wrong was organised by the NHS Everything that went right was organised by the government " :-| No i think they will use "following the science" for anything that goes wrong Malc. But Johnson is currently writing the 100th volume of his Encyclopedia of Lies aided and abetted by Controller Cummings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 747 - 2020-05-17 9:57 PM Just one tiny flaw in the argument. Who discharged the elderly from Hospital and into Care Homes? Was it the Conservative Government or was it the NHS? I dunno because, with BoJo's spin doctor in the SAGE committee and everything censored, the line between Government and NHS has become hopelessly blurred :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-17 10:35 PM 747 - 2020-05-17 9:57 PM Just one tiny flaw in the argument. Who discharged the elderly from Hospital and into Care Homes? Was it the Conservative Government or was it the NHS? I dunno because, with BoJo's spin doctor in the SAGE committee and everything censored, the line between Government and NHS has become hopelessly blurred :-S If you dont know ;-) ..........Why are you blaming Boris? *-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2908801322506222 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-18 7:35 AM John52 - 2020-05-17 10:35 PM 747 - 2020-05-17 9:57 PM Just one tiny flaw in the argument. Who discharged the elderly from Hospital and into Care Homes? Was it the Conservative Government or was it the NHS? I dunno because, with BoJo's spin doctor in the SAGE committee and everything censored, the line between Government and NHS has become hopelessly blurred :-S If you dont know ;-) ..........Why are you blaming Boris? *-) .......... I can't see anywhere in Johns post where he did. :-S Ever heard the quote "the buck stops here"? It wasn't said by a British politician but applies to anyone with overall charge meaning ultimate accountability....something Johnson shirks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-05-18 2:57 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-18 7:35 AM John52 - 2020-05-17 10:35 PM 747 - 2020-05-17 9:57 PM Just one tiny flaw in the argument. Who discharged the elderly from Hospital and into Care Homes? Was it the Conservative Government or was it the NHS? I dunno because, with BoJo's spin doctor in the SAGE committee and everything censored, the line between Government and NHS has become hopelessly blurred :-S If you dont know ;-) ..........Why are you blaming Boris? *-) .......... I can't see anywhere in Johns post where he did. :-S Ever heard the quote "the buck stops here"? It wasn't said by a British politician but applies to anyone with overall charge meaning ultimate accountability....something Johnson shirks. You mean John52 did a post not blaming Boris??? 8-) ........... .......and I missed it? (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-18 3:32 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-18 2:57 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-18 7:35 AM John52 - 2020-05-17 10:35 PM 747 - 2020-05-17 9:57 PM Just one tiny flaw in the argument. Who discharged the elderly from Hospital and into Care Homes? Was it the Conservative Government or was it the NHS? I dunno because, with BoJo's spin doctor in the SAGE committee and everything censored, the line between Government and NHS has become hopelessly blurred :-S If you dont know ;-) ..........Why are you blaming Boris? *-) .......... I can't see anywhere in Johns post where he did. :-S Ever heard the quote "the buck stops here"? It wasn't said by a British politician but applies to anyone with overall charge meaning ultimate accountability....something Johnson shirks. You mean John52 did a post not blaming Boris??? 8-) ........... .......and I missed it? (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ The post you quoted didn't. If you were referring to an entirely different post then you should have quoted that. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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