Peter R Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 We are looking to swap for a Autocruise Starspirit van. 55registration. Like the layout, pity about the space heater, a Webasto diesel only - no mains or gas as in our present Autosleeper Executive. Friends have same van and year. They warn us that the fuel line to the Webasto became very badly corroded and leaked diesel. Replacement cost for said line was so high that eventually they had the whole heater removed and replaced by a gas heater. They carry a mains halogen heater for when on hookup. ( Yes, I don't like the sound of a halogen maybe some other heater. (Do modern electric heaters have quick overheat disconnect?) So, questions are - is the supply pipe a known problem with Webastos on vans (guess it's a retrofit as usually no heaters in vans)? Anyone ever done this job? As Autospirit already has mains/gas hot water heater almost co-located, would that be easy as it sounds? Peter R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hi Peter - Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forum. I believe that the standard heating system on a 2005 Autocruise Starspirit would have comprised a gas/230V Truma Ultrastore water-boiler and a diesel-fueled air-heater. Based on on-line adverts for Starspirits, the diesel-fueled air-heater would normally have been made by Eberspacher rather than Webasto, but it's not unknown for motorhome manufacturers to fit a Webasto air-heater instead of an Eberspacher, or vice versa. As similar output air-heaters from Webasto or Eberspacher are similar in size, shape, installation requirements and cost, it presents little difficulty swapping one for the other. I'm not aware of corroded fuel-lines being a particular problem with these heaters, but if the fuel-line's material is not corrosion resistant, or the line is not regularly treated to provide protection against corrosion, then road-salt will attack it. I'm guessing that the reason why replacement of the damaged fuel-line on your friends' Starspirit would have been so costly that it merited replacing the heater with a gas one, was down to the amount of work involved, not the cost of the fuel-line itself. It shouldn't be that difficult to replace a diesel-fueled air-heater with an equivalent gas-fueled air-heater if you needed to, but it would definitely not be cheap and (as you have realised) you'd still end up with an appliance with no 230V air heating capability . I guess it's worth bearing in mind for the future but, if you are seriously concerned about a potential big bill hanging over your head, I suggest you don't buy a Starspirit. If you do decide to purchase one, then (having been forewarned by your friends) it would be commonsense to make everry effort to ensure that the complete diesel-fueled heating system is in excellent condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8LEY Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 We have a Webasto diesel space/water heater on our Autotrail. The fuel line is plastic. Webasto specify steel, copper and plastic. I suppose what you get is up to the constructor. We like the heater because we can fire it up on the move, unlike gas appliances, and arrive on site with a warm van; a priority if you motorhome in the winter months, like us. Also, we have no issues with gas supplies on the continent, which is nice! We carry electric heaters as well, for when paying for juice is unavoidable (home thoughts from abroad). Not sure what you are looking for but we have a halogen heater that cuts off if it's knocked over but it has no heat control. We also use a thermostatically controlled fan assisted electric heater for quick warm-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 T8LEY - 2012-01-25 12:35 AM ...We like the heater because we can fire it up on the move, unlike gas appliances... Just for the record, it's likely that the majority of motorhomes factory-fitted in the last few years with gas-fueled air-heaters can have those heaters operating (practicably and legally) while the motorhome is being driven. Any Truma gas-fueled air-heater approved for use in a motorhome will technically be capable of being operated while a motorhome is in motion. Whether such 'en route' operation will be legal in every country where a motorhome might be driven is another matter, as is the advisability safety-wise of driving a motorhome with an operating gas-fueled appliance. Similar potential usage constraints will not, however, apply to diesel-fueled air-heaters that can be operated (safely, legally and practicably) in a moving vehicle in any country. I don't know where Autocruise fitted the air-heater in a Starspirit, but whether it's inside the motorhome or outside, it shouldn't be that hard to replace with a Truma E-Series gas heater or a Propex product. Despite saying otherwise earlier, I now see that Propex markets a gas/230V air heater that might suit people who regularly use campsite hook-ups. http://www.propexheatsource.co.uk/HS2000E.php http://www.rainbowconversions.co.uk/Equipment/Heaters/heaters.htm I suspect that converting the air-heating of a 2005 Starspirit from diesel-fueled to gas-fueled would prevent the gas heater from be operated legally in countries like France that have a national ban on such usage, but that limitation might not concern many UK motorcaravanners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The two biggest drawbacks of diesel fired heating are the amount of 12 volt battery drain if you are not on hook up, in which case I would strongly suggest two leisure batteries, and the need for specialist attention when they go wrong. They tend to be quite reliable, but it pays to fire it up at least once a month to keep it in top shape. Finding someone to fix it if it does fail can be difficult - especially abroad - and a heavy truck dealer is aften a good place to start asking as 'official' dealers can be few and far between. On the plus side they preserve your gas supplies which is more of an issue abroad than at home. Halogen heaters glow very brightly which can be annoying in a small space but most of them have a falling over safety cutout and they are cheap. A small thermostatically controlled convecter is probably better? We would prefer to use a small 1 kw thermostatically controlled fan heater - if we had one this is and if we used elecric hook ups! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I didn't realise that the Starspirit didn't have 'the full works' of a diesel heater, Our Starburst also of 2005 vintage has an Eberspacher Hydronic, which heats the water as well as supplying blown hot air around the van, it also has electric elements in both Water and Hot air generation, which saves on diesel when on Hook Up. As a 'Back-up' we carry a small oiled filled radiator, which has both overtemp and 'knock-over' cut-off switches(and is very quiet in use). We are very pleased with it compared to our previous van which only had a Truma with blown air.(an Autosleeper Talisman). As to corrosion of the diesel pipe, I had our van 'Waxoyled' as soon as i bought it (as I intend to keep it for a while) and had them take particular 'care' around the Underfloor heater and pipes, as i live near the sea. A quick look underneath, shows that all pipework is well 'waxoyled'. Wouldn't it be cheaper to 'upgrade' the present Eberspacher/Webasto to 'mains' operation as well, rather than completely replacing the whole thing ?? We also find having the heater and hot water working 'on route' a great boon, as the Cab heater and draughts leave a bit to be desired. When we arrive the van is already warm, and we can shower straight away. Ray ;-) Does the 'Enroute' regulator (for want of a better description) work on ALL gas systems retrospectively ? as I am sure not everyone knows that, if it is so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Rayjsj - 2012-01-25 11:49 AM I didn't realise that the Starspirit didn't have 'the full works' of a diesel heater, Our Starburst also of 2005 vintage has an Eberspacher Hydronic, which heats the water as well as supplying blown hot air around the van, it also has electric elements in both Water and Hot air generation, which saves on diesel when on Hook Up. As a 'Back-up' we carry a small oiled filled radiator, which has both overtemp and 'knock-over' cut-off switches(and is very quiet in use). We are very pleased with it compared to our previous van which only had a Truma with blown air.(an Autosleeper Talisman). As to corrosion of the diesel pipe, I had our van 'Waxoyled' as soon as i bought it (as I intend to keep it for a while) and had them take particular 'care' around the Underfloor heater and pipes, as i live near the sea. A quick look underneath, shows that all pipework is well 'waxoyled'. Wouldn't it be cheaper to 'upgrade' the present Eberspacher/Webasto to 'mains' operation as well, rather than completely replacing the whole thing ?? We also find having the heater and hot water working 'on route' a great boon, as the Cab heater and draughts leave a bit to be desired. When we arrive the van is already warm, and we can shower straight away. Ray ;-) Does the 'Enroute' regulator (for want of a better description) work on ALL gas systems retrospectively ? as I am sure not everyone knows that, if it is so. There is an Eberspacher "Airlectric" retro-fittable option (£300-£400 depending on specification) that allows 230V air-heating to be added to an Eberspacher D2 or D4 air-heater, but (as far as I'm aware) Webasto offers no equivalent product. http://www.eberspacher.com/downloads/products/22339_airlectric_(web).pdf As long as a motorhome's gas system is designed to use a 30mb regulated gas supply, retrofitting a Truma's SecuMotion regulator + pigtails should present no great technical difficulties. However, Truma now advises that SecuMotion should not be retrofitted. SecuMotion has been superseded by Truma's "MonoControl CS" that is designed for easy(-ish) retrofitting (and is also available as a 50mbar version), but it's anybody's guess whether retrofitting a MonoControl CS regulator to a motorhome that didn't have a 'safety' regulating system as original equipment fully 'legalises' the vehicle regarding pan-European en route usage of its gas heater. Replacing a standard regulator with a MonoControl CS regulator should make a motohome safer in the event of a road accident (assuming that the supply from the vehicle's gas bottle(s)/tank has not been turned off), but I'm wary that it would make a previously 'illegal' motorhome 'legal'. Not a thing that bothers me much - I'm no Jesuit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter R Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Very impressed by all your replies. Since inputting our request, we've been back to the dealer and read all the technical docn. Unable to check the condition of the fuel line to the Eberspacher (Webasto was wrong info.) Checked out space available for carrying extra heaters. Must agree with some of you re drain on the leisure battery. Bad news if no hookup for a few days. Of course, with a big truck, the driver will be driving on the next morning thus recharging the battery. Anyway, we won't be doing the deal. As any addons would have to be done for us, it would/could add up to a lot of extra pennies. We were also saddened by the lack of storage space. The more we looked aroung the Starspirit, tthe more we appreciated the space and easy access on board the A/S Executive. What we need are a diesel motor, rear lounge AND same length as Executive. Oh, no TV, and a few years younger than our HX51 regisn. (anyone know what is special about the HW regis. letters?) Should I now cancel this thread or let the discussion run its course? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Peter R - 2012-01-26 1:14 PM anyone know what is special about the HX (W?) regis. letters Peter, HX means it was registered in Portsmouth. Link. I assume HW was a typo as that is the Isle of Wight! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Peter You could ask for no more postings to be added to this thread if you wanted to, but the general 'rule' is to let a thread run its course even if the postings' contents may have diverged radically from the original subject. (And, of course, even if you asked for the thread to stop, there's no certain guarantee forum members would cooperate with your request) ;-) Apparently the HW registration digraph applies to Isle of Wight residents only. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_United_Kingdom#Current_system If you'd like to seek suggestions regarding which motorhome models might suit your requirements - maximum 5.7m (?) long, rear lounge and plenty of storage - you'd reach a wider audience by starting a new thread on the Motorhome Matters forum section. I don't think you'd need to specify the motor type (it's pretty much bound to be diesel), nor to indicate a TV nil-requirement, but it would be wise to state a firmish budget limit and a maximum vehicle-age if you can (eg. price below £30k and no earlier than 2005-registered). As shortish rear-lounge motorhomes are relatively rare, I don't think there will be a vast choice. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Having owned several A/S Executives and Talisman vans over the years as well as a 2004 Starspirit my perception is that the Starspirit, being bigger, has a lot more storage space than the A/S vans? Certainly all of our clobber went in very easily on transfer! The roly-poly handing and in particular ferry ramps was an issue with the Starspirit with it's long overhang but overall we liked the van. We did find the 2.0 hdi with which ours came a bit wanting in mountainous areas but otherwise adequate and considerably quieter than the old 2.5 diesel in the A/S! Overall it was a well built, although not as solid as a bomb proof 80/90s monocoque A/S, and much better insulated and easier to live in and with if not to drive than the Talisman. Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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