handyman Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 on the way back from siena 2 days ago, i stayed at the french side of the mont blanc tunnel (in lorry park at the enterance). My fully winterised Euramobil 06 622SB should be fully functional in minus 10 with a gale blowing that would cut you in half. Heating fine, everything worked, appart from the water pump/pipes etc located in a 'wooden box' which is then located in the cupboard under the sink.......and it isnt heated. The whole lot was frozen solid in the morning. >:-( Took top off box and left the door open, and it defrosted on the drive, then worked fine 6 hrs later. Appears to have survived being frozen. I presume i need to look at getting a tube of hot air in this area from the heater or something........or just tell euramobil to fix it, as it is they who sold it as fully winterised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry1956 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Hi, like so many things re motorhomes, I sometimes wonder if they are designed to be used at all, Look at some that are so say able to sheep upto 6 people yet with a pay load that would not allow for the 6 people to have any bedding, Its all a bit of a joke realy on us that buy these expensive toys. terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Handyman sorry for your troubles at least it survived with no big damage costing you . Still not funny though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 what do you think about complaining to euramobil, and asking them to fix it............peeing in the wind springs to mind (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I don't know enough But heres my two penneth .If they sold it as fully winterised I would imagine its not fit for the sale of goods act ? And they should not be allowed to do this after all if you were living in that country and only used in winter you have the right to use it and if you bought it with fully winterised on it thats what you should be sold.IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Sorry to hear you've had problems. The first thing I'd say is read through all the vehicle handbooks to see what is said in there. If it states its winterised (or supposed to be) to withstand temperatures down to minus ten C and you didn't experience such a drop in temperature when your pipes froze then I'd say you have a good case for getting them to sort it. If it doesn't give a specific temperature range or define "winterised" then I think you're on a hiding to nothing. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Well, so long as the fully winterised claim didn't just come from the dealer, and so long as you didn't forget to activate something, take it up with Euramobil direct. You may get a fix, or a suggestion for a workaround, and all it will cost you is the time to compose a note. Of course, you may get nothing, but at least you'll know! Otherwise, it seems you may need a bit of (Truma?) small diameter heater trunking into the cupboard/box to take the chill off. Presumably the pump etc are mounted on the external wall of the van, and the enclosing box is there to prevent damage from goods in the cupboard? As an alternative to heating the box, could you fit air grilles to the box to allow warmer air to circulate through it, or could you replace the box (or part of it) with a perforated metal cage to ensure air movement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Handyman, Would you mind popping to chatter to give us a run down on the weather in general.?Snow chains and all that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 cheers for all the info and thoughts from everyone! I will look through the euramobil pack tonight and see what it says about the winterised part of the van...... as for fixing it, i will e mail them and see what they say.......... as for a fix by myself, I can put a grill on the boxing, but not on the cupboard door, as it would take away from the look. So, i see the solution is to duct heat into it. Will update once i get some feedback from euramobil, but i presume it will be 'nothing to do with them', and will fit some ducting into the 'box' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Surely as your contract is with the supplying dealer, not Euromobil, they should be your first point of contact, and the dealer in turn should seek a cure from the maker at the maker's expense. So as long as your dealer's postcode is in Utopia you should be OK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Rich, can see Brian's point though if it only came from the dealer then the supplier is not at fault .............NO? Says OXO on the side of buses but they dont sell em :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 michele - 2007-12-19 2:03 PM Rich, can see Brian's point though if it only came from the dealer then the supplier is not at fault .............NO? Says OXO on the side of buses but they dont sell em :D It may not be the dealer's fault Michele, but legally the buyer's contract is with the dealer NOT the maker and it is up to the dealer to rectify any faults, although the dealer may well need the maker's input to be able to do this. Apart from which it is a darned long way back to the Euromobil factory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest machra Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Handyman: Other postings are correct. Your contract is with the dealer not the manufacturer. The dealer supplied the vehicle so it is up to them to put it right. I have condensation issues with my new Hobby (Recent Post). My dealer had to speak with Hobby who has given the go ahead for them to investigate and rectify the problem. Be careful about altering things yourself. You may fall foul should you have a warranty claim in the future. In my case it is now documented that Hobby have authorised any necessary work and the warranty is still valid. I rang the Caravan Club legal helpline in the first instance to confirm my rights under the sale of goods act. I was surprised to find that you have 6 months in which to refuse a new vehicle. (The longer you keep it the less of a case for returning it) However dealer will be loathed to give you any money back so if you were to go down this route the advice I was given was to document everything, write to dealer with your complaint (recorded letters only) and you will be required to get an independent report done setting out your problems and stating why the vehicle is not fit for purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 will contact the dealer then. Its a bit ott to start talking about sending it back. money back etc........it isnt that big a deal, easily sorted, but annoying that it isnt correct. As far as i can see, all the vans we looked at had stupid design flaws, that mainly could be sorted if the company that made it, used the bloody van for a few days, and seen what was wrong. Brand new van, and I had to get sockets put in correct places, remove and reposition the front cab certain rail, and other wee things that were just plain stupid (wardrobe door dropping to the floor being one really stupid one, as the gas tank locker was in the bottom 1/3rd of space). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 And a most annoying one is this is build from the ground up, and they dont fit brackets/rails on the back to take ladders/bike racks etc. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 and 4 of the lockers not having shelves in them, so half the space is wasted. Anther job I had to do on a brand new van :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Tracker - 2007-12-19 2:10 PM It may not be the dealer's fault Michele, but legally the buyer's contract is with the dealer NOT the maker and it is up to the dealer to rectify any faults, although the dealer may well need the maker's input to be able to do this. Apart from which it is a darned long way back to the Euromobil factory! Yes, you are quite right about where the legal liability lies. However, the existence of a fault has to be proved, and in this case I'm not entirely sure that would be straightforward. Didn't the conditions exceed the -10C protection claimed? Well, how does one prove they didn't, at some time during the night; and does the -10C standard relate to an average temperature across the whole vehicle, or the lowest temperature that any part of it experienced, and is wind chill taken into account?What I suspect handyman really wants is a fix so that the problem won't reoccur, and for that I think the designer, and not the seller, may well prove the best place to turn. Playing legal hardball isn't often (ever?) a quick or certain a route to a solution, so best reserved for serious problems. If handyman will forgive me, I don't think this is all that serious a problem. The pipes etc shouldn't have frozen, but the conditions were quite severe and my impression is of a minor design defect that should be quite easily rectified.I also suspect the job will be far neater done by handyman than by the dealer. Not as it should be, but once a poor job is done, it is very difficult to rectify. I know who I'd want to do this irritating bit of work - me!If there have been a number of complaints back to Euramobil along similar lines already, it is just possible they may have a ready-made fix. That is the main reason I suggested contacting them direct. It is, after all, their cock up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 machra - 2007-12-19 3:22 PM ......I have condensation issues with my new Hobby (Recent Post). My dealer had to speak with Hobby who has given the go ahead for them to investigate and rectify the problem. .....In my case it is now documented that Hobby have authorised any necessary work and the warranty is still valid. ...... KevinWho is your dealer, and has an arrangement yet been made with them for the repairs? I ask, because Brownhills, who seemed to be the largest UK Hobby outlet, no longer do Hobby, their Role having been taken over by Lowdham. However, when I enquired, Lowdham won't touch warranty work on vehicles sold by Bh, whereas Bh are supposed to be retained as an authorised repairer for warranty work on vehicles they originally supplied.Does / has this affect(ed) you? Seemed a right mess to me! Apologies for the off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 brian, i never thought vents would look very good where I'd need to put them to solve this problem, but was at camperlands today, and they have beech wood coloured vents with look ok..........even better, the salesman thinks he can get vents that have a beechwood print on them ! , he is phoning me back in morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wills Wagon Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 While I enjoy the Forum many people are just wasting everybody else's time by gossiping. This thread has a quote by Handyman about their vehicle without naming the manufacturer and model. Bit like pissing in the wind. You get wet but no help to anybody else!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Wills Wagon - 2007-12-19 9:25 PM While I enjoy the Forum many people are just wasting everybody else's time by gossiping. This thread has a quote by Handyman about their vehicle without naming the manufacturer and model. Bit like pissing in the wind. You get wet but no help to anybody else!!!!!!!!!!! May I respectfully suggest Chris that you put your reading glasses on and read the opening posting again please! Thank you for your urination experiences and I am sure that we will all be content to take your word for the result of an upwind sprinkle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Craig, Where did you get the minus 10 from ? the dealer a book ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 i think Wills has been smoking something illegal (lol) .........I'll await a groveling apology, van is also stated in my info below my avatar, most people appear to have this. Michele, it was minus 10, i didnt 'get it' from anywhere. This area of the van would freeze with time at minus anything, as its not heated, and is double insulated from the heat of the main living area by 2 layers of wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 i would think the phrase 'winterised' means that it has been designed with winter use in mind, it has a double floor and the pipework runs through this and this void is heated. As far as i can can see when i was looking into this aspect when buying a van, this was what it mainly meant. Other than that, they normally had thicker walls, water within the heated area, and that was it. The outside temp it should withstand would then be just what a 6kw gas heater can keep up with? Cant actually see anything on the subject in the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 "Cant actually see anything on the subject in the manual." And there might lie the problem for any action against dealer or manufacturer (yes I know you said you would probably fix it yourself). If they haven't said in writing that the 'van, in normal use, can withstand a defined outside temperature without freezing then its difficult to argue that its not fit for purpose. The manufacturers might well be interested to hear of your problem though so that they can redesign to prevent it happening on other 'vans. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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