spospe Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Given how widespread is the gassing of motorhome / caravan occupants is, has anyone heard of an attack on an outfit containing animals; especially dogs? Come to think of it, has anyone heard of a gassing attack on tent occupants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabino Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Or, has anyone ever heard of a case of "gassing" that has been properly confirmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 sabino - 2019-08-04 7:42 PM Or, has anyone ever heard of a case of "gassing" that has been properly confirmed? Yep ........Confirmed by medical tests :-| ......... "French police were called out and sent the family to hospital for tests, whey they were informed they had been poisoned by gas. They had all suffered carbon monoxide poisoning and were told they could have died." https://www.thelocal.fr/20140812/thieves-gas-british-family-in-their-campervan Naturally the forum expert skeptics will say the the Chadwicks, French plod & medical services are wrong ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmike Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-04 8:01 PM sabino - 2019-08-04 7:42 PM Or, has anyone ever heard of a case of "gassing" that has been properly confirmed? Yep ........Confirmed by medical tests :-| ......... "French police were called out and sent the family to hospital for tests, whey they were informed they had been poisoned by gas. They had all suffered carbon monoxide poisoning and were told they could have died." https://www.thelocal.fr/20140812/thieves-gas-british-family-in-their-campervan Naturally the forum expert skeptics will say the the Chadwicks, French plod & medical services are wrong ;-) ......... Just like Brexit the article was a little short on facts?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 fjmike - 2019-08-04 8:21 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-04 8:01 PM sabino - 2019-08-04 7:42 PM Or, has anyone ever heard of a case of "gassing" that has been properly confirmed? Yep ........Confirmed by medical tests :-| ......... "French police were called out and sent the family to hospital for tests, whey they were informed they had been poisoned by gas. They had all suffered carbon monoxide poisoning and were told they could have died." https://www.thelocal.fr/20140812/thieves-gas-british-family-in-their-campervan Naturally the forum expert skeptics will say the the Chadwicks, French plod & medical services are wrong ;-) ......... Just like Brexit the article was a little short on facts?????? It's been going on for a long time ;-) ......... Beware sleeping gas gang, caravanners told By Martin Beckford12:01AM BST 17 Aug 2007 The Foreign Office is advising caravanners to instal alarms after a string of tourists in France were gassed and robbed as they slept. It is also suggested that they stay only on official campsites after Britons who had parked overnight at roadside rest areas had valuables stolen, apparently after gas was pumped into their vans to render them helpless. In the most recent incident, an elderly couple who had parked in a lay-by near La Croix Valmer, in southern France, woke to find £1,200 in cash stolen as well as their passports, bank cards, mobile phones and satellite navigation system. Diane Bezer and Geoff Sillito believe thieves piped sleeping gas through the vents of their camper van, knocking them out so they could raid their camper van without fear of being disturbed. Mrs Bezer, of Winterbourne Bassett, Wilts, said: "When we woke up everything was gone and we had a really woozy feeling. The gas had an effect because we didn't wake up until 9am and we are usually awake at 7am. "We carried on with our holiday but it was ruined. I couldn't sleep at night after it happened because I kept thinking I was breathing gas. I still feel traumatised and can't get it out of my mind." A spokeswoman for the Foreign Office said there had been a number of reports about British holidaymakers being gassed and then robbed across France in recent years, mainly when they had parked in lay-bys and rest areas. She added: "There have been enough cases to warrant us mentioning it in our travel advice." The Foreign Office's advice on crime in France now states: "There is also a continuing problem of burglaries taking place during the night whilst travellers have been asleep in their caravans, mobile homes or other vehicles. "Thefts have occurred in rest areas on the A25 (Dunkirk to Lille) and A16 (Calais-Dunkirk) motorways. In some cases, victims had first been rendered unconscious by the thieves using gas. Try to avoid parking in isolated or dark areas of camping grounds or car parks, and consider installing an alarm in your caravan or mobile home." The Caravan Club said it had also received reports from victims and advises British tourists not to stay overnight in roadside rest areas known as Aires de Service, where most of the crimes are thought to have taken place. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560520/Beware-sleeping-gas-gang-caravanners-told.html But of course the forum "expert" skeptics know better ;-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmike Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 What really happens in the MAJORITY of cases is they drive too far, park at a service area, drink too much and go to bed forgetting to lock the doors. They get robbed but can't admit their stupidity as the insurance company won't pay out so make up stories about being gassed. Some have been caught and prosecuted for fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 fjmike - 2019-08-04 8:37 PM What really happens in the MAJORITY of cases is they drive too far, park at a service area, drink too much and go to bed forgetting to lock the doors. They get robbed but can't admit their stupidity as the insurance company won't pay out so make up stories about being gassed. Some have been caught and prosecuted for fraud "Mugging incidents have occurred at isolated rest areas on some French motorways, usually those without petrol stations and cafeterias. There is also a continuing problem of burglaries which have been reported as taking place whilst travellers have been asleep in their caravans, mobile homes or other vehicles. Such thefts have been reported throughout France. In some cases, victims may first have been rendered unconscious by the thieves using gas. Try to avoid parking in isolated or dark areas of camping grounds or car parks, and consider installing an alarm in your caravan or mobile home." https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20080612135251/http://www.fco.gov.uk/content/en/travel-advice/fco_trv_ca_france Perhaps you should let the Foreign Office and French plod know their advice is duff ;-) ......... After all you skeptics MUST know better >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 What a load of tosh! Why does this rubbish keep re-surfacing? A moment's thought about the cost of anaesthetic gas, method of delivery, calculation of dose for different weights of individuals and animals, dispersion of anaesthetic afterwards and you come to the conclusion that "sneak thieves" have been able to gauge when families are sound asleep for years and break in. That 2008 reference was absolute rubbish and has now been refuted. But then who listens to experts who know about facts nowadays? Ignorance is much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasnt Me Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Another thought. Who travels with £1200 cash and doesn't hide it or have a safe? We don't carry much cash at all, and even we have a safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solwaybuggier Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Presumably the Royal College of Anaesthetists are bogus experts when they’ve dismissed the gassing scare stories as technically impossible or impracticable? But then Pelmetman will always know better and dismiss them as “experts”? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Well the RCA still has this statement on their website from five years ago... "Statement on alleged gassing in motor vehicles Despite the increasing numbers of reports of people being gassed in motor-homes or commercial trucks in France, and the warning put out by the Foreign Office for travellers to be aware of this danger, this College remains of the view that this is a myth. It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor. Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs would be too expensive for the average thief to use. The other important point to remember is that general anaesthetics are potentially very dangerous, which is why they are only administered in the UK by doctors who have undergone many years of postgraduate training in the subject and who remain with the unconscious patient throughout the anaesthetic. Unsupervised patients are likely to die from obstruction of the airway by their tongues falling back. In the Moscow seige approximately 20% of the people died, many probably from airway obstruction directly related to the agent used. If there was a totally safe, odourless, potent, cheap anaesthetic agent available to thieves for this purpose it is likely the medical profession would know about it and be investigating its use in anaesthetic practice. 14 July 2014" https://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottypam Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 So the thieves are supposed to have pumped carbon monoxide into the van through the exhaust, presumably from a vehicle with a running engine. I would think a running engine next to your van for the time it would take to fill it with gas would wake you up and how did they know when the occupants were unconscious? The report says the family all woke at the same time. Surely the children would have been more seriously affected than the adults and would have remained unconscious for longer? At least if these gassing reports are true and are due to carbon monoxide, we just need to fit a detector, or do as we do and travel with a dog. No one can come within in a metre of our van without our canine burglar alarm going off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Keithl - 2019-08-04 9:29 PM Well the RCA still has this statement on their website from five years ago... "Statement on alleged gassing in motor vehicles Despite the increasing numbers of reports of people being gassed in motor-homes or commercial trucks in France, and the warning put out by the Foreign Office for travellers to be aware of this danger, this College remains of the view that this is a myth. It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor. Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs would be too expensive for the average thief to use. The other important point to remember is that general anaesthetics are potentially very dangerous, which is why they are only administered in the UK by doctors who have undergone many years of postgraduate training in the subject and who remain with the unconscious patient throughout the anaesthetic. Unsupervised patients are likely to die from obstruction of the airway by their tongues falling back. In the Moscow seige approximately 20% of the people died, many probably from airway obstruction directly related to the agent used. If there was a totally safe, odourless, potent, cheap anaesthetic agent available to thieves for this purpose it is likely the medical profession would know about it and be investigating its use in anaesthetic practice. 14 July 2014" https://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles The RCOA are experts in the use of anesthetics.........Not the use of Carbon monoxide as they stated in their reply to me ;-) .......... Thank you for your recent email concerning The Daily Mirror article. However, it appears to have given rise to some misunderstanding. Although the article identifies in the headline that it refers to exhaust fumes, it then goes on to quote from a statement on the Royal College of Anaesthetists' (RCoA) website (http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles). ***Exhaust fumes contain carbon monoxide, which is a poison, and is never used in anaesthetic practice.*** The RCoA statement refers specifically to actual or potential anaesthetic agents as follows: 'It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor. Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs would be too expensive for the average thief to use'. I hope this clarifies the situation and the RCoA will be asking The Daily Mirror for a correction. Kind regards, Mrs Mandie Kelly Website and Publications Officer Communications Department Clinical Quality Directorate The Royal College of Anaesthetists | 35 Red Lion Square | London WC1R 4SG ANAESTHESIA CLINICAL SERVICES ACCREDITATION (ACSA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Solwaybuggier - 2019-08-04 9:15 PM Presumably the Royal College of Anaesthetists are bogus experts when they’ve dismissed the gassing scare stories as technically impossible or impracticable? But then Pelmetman will always know better and dismiss them as “experts”? Have to say if I had the kinda luck that enabled me to randomly target a campervan, where I knew ALL the occupants would be p*ssed or so exhausted that I was able to break in and rifle through their belongings without them waking up? 8-) .......... I wouldn't be out robbing campers ;-) ..........I'd be doing the lottery :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 As well as the RCoA comments published above there are also reports in French from members of the Gendarmerie that dispute the use of gas in these incidents. There has never been any physical evidence found of the use of gas in this type of attack. But the medical profession have to take the possibility into account when they are presented with patients. They might not believe it, but they will not dispute it with their patients. It is not their job to do so. My own view is that some people who suffer burglaries whilst they are asleep in a MH jump to the conclusion that they have been gassed because they cannot believe that they have slept through the incident. And a lot of dogs sleep just as heavily as people do. For some perverse reason many people also report that they have just disturbed burglars when returning home and yet the time scale and physical evidence rarely corroborates that claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-05 7:17 AM Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards... The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day... Equally if car exhaust had been used as the source of the Carbon Monoxide the smell would be obvious to anyone even several days later. All the soft furnishings in the MH would become impregnated with the smell and it would be extremely hard to get rid of completely. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 spospe - 2019-08-04 7:34 PM Given how widespread is the gassing of motorhome / caravan occupants is, has anyone heard of an attack on an outfit containing animals; especially dogs? Come to think of it, has anyone heard of a gassing attack on tent occupants? You might be better asking if anyone who has overnighted on a French motorway service area or on a French road-side lay-by, and whose motorhome/caravan was fitted with a gas detector, has had the detector go off inexplicably during the night. There again, anyone who chooses to fit a gas detector to their leisure-vehicle probably has enough common sense not to overnight in France on service areas or lay-bys where there’s a well-recognised risk of theft from vehicles occurring. This 2015 link https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33821661 mentions a dog "Gordon Doig, from Edinburgh, was on holiday in Orange near the Cote D'Azur when his motorhome was robbed in the night. He is convinced he and his wife were gassed. Mr Doig says he woke up later than usual and felt groggy. "I reached for my trousers to visit the loo but they weren't there," he says. "My keys were in the trousers. I ran outside to look for evidence. We were both in a daze. They took everything bar the mobile phone. The dog didn't even bark.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roryboy Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Gassing – the Ultimate Confession - a tear jerking account of gas attacks on British Motorhomes 'Allo, it is I, René Francois Artois. This is my confession about the spate of Gassing incidents reported in Newspapers and on the Internet. It was I who has been responsible for the Gassing of those visitors to our shores in Motorhomes, we in France call them Camping Cars, and I would like to make a full confession of the incident involving the latest family. If I may I will relate the story. After the War I moved from my Café in the little village of Nouvion in Northern France to Antran where I opened a new Café at a Motorway Service Station My lovely wife Edith, Yvette and Mimi came with me to help and I was lucky to also have Lieutenant Gruber who cooks in the kitchen and goes to the Cash and Carry in his little tank. The incident happened when a family stopped at my little café and parked their Camping Car in the nearby Service Station car park. They were oblivious to how hurtful it is to a renowned Proprietor such as I when they brought their own food with them into the Café and irritated me by not buying any of dear Guber's delightfully cooked produce. They asked for my finest Red wine, I wasn't going to waste any of that on the tight fisted group, and they were given a few bottles of the worst vintage I could muster. During their long drinking session one of the members of the Resistance, Michelle, heard something that they had mentioned and she told me, only once, the words 'Madonna' and 'big boobs'. This of course brought back memories of the picture of 'The Fallen Madonna and the Big Boobies' by Van Klomp and its whereabouts because it hasn't been seen in decades and must now be worth a fortune. Apparently they had a suitcase in the Camping Car with the possibility that the long lost painting was inside the case. They left my little Café in an alcohol induced state after drinking the rough, but expensively priced, wine I had so generously served and we formed a plan to steal the suitcase and relieve them of the picture of the 'Madonna and the Big Boobies'. When everyone inside the vehicle, suffering from the after effects of my 'finest' wine, finally succumbed to sleep Gruber parked his ageing exhaust emitting smoky little tank next to the Camping Car. He climbed on top of his little tank and lowered a hook on a rope through the open sky light of the Camping Car and, bless him, lifted the suitcase out without disturbing the slumbering occupants. We hurried back to the Café and eagerly opened the case. To our bitter disappointment the suitcase only contained a couple of Madonna CDs, some sweaty shirts and a couple of bras that would have fitted Mama Cass - and not the picture we so dearly craved. When the family came back to my café the next morning complaining about bad headaches and a stolen suitcase I immediately referred them to Officer Crabtree. His grasp of French and English completely bemused them, their own Midlands accent nullifying Crabtree's attempt at sorting out the English version of the problem, and he directed them to our local Hospital for some headache relieving tablets. Yvette and Mimi's daughters work as Nurses at the Hospital, and with my guidance and advice, both girls intimated that it was obviously Carbon Monoxide poisoning that had effected the six English and not the worst tasting and smelling wine that anyone could possibly consume and get away without severe repercussions. To my horror, and my horror has often been tested, the family claimed around 1,500 of your English pounds for replacing the contents of the stolen suitcase. I, Edith, and the two English airmen, who still haven't gone home despite frequent efforts to get rid of them, have trawled the Internet to find the real value of the contents and I'm afraid the optimistic estimate to be round €40 as most the items we saw were either possibly pirated versions of the delightful Madonna's DVDs or poor quality shirts and bras bought from a market. I admit my involvement in the crime that your Newspapers reported in chilling detail but feel I have truthfully put my side of the story and insist that normally we would only serve such appalling wine to those who are naïve, stupid or downright thick – and that can't be you, can it? If anyone knows whether they get away with their alleged ?s?c?a?m? claim, or if they were refused compensation, please let me know and I will send Michelle and her Resistance colleagues round to their houses and sort them out. Thank you for taking the time to read my confession, René. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Fortunately the threat of gas attack is one which, if you believe that it's real, can be mitigated by taking precautions in where you stay overnight, in the way you secure and alarm your vehicle and you can also moderate your use of alcohol to improve your alertness. So there is no need to prove the risk to anyone else (except perhaps for purposes of an insurance claim) and motorhomers are all free to make their own choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Keithl - 2019-08-05 7:57 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-05 7:17 AM Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards... The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day... Equally if car exhaust had been used as the source of the Carbon Monoxide the smell would be obvious to anyone even several days later. All the soft furnishings in the MH would become impregnated with the smell and it would be extremely hard to get rid of completely. Keith. My mechanic removed the batteries of my CO alarm because it kept going off in his workshop ;-) ......... Cant say the camper stunk of exhaust fumes :-| ........... But there again it does stink of dog :$ ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Nicepix - 2019-08-05 7:45 AM As well as the RCoA comments published above there are also reports in French from members of the Gendarmerie that dispute the use of gas in these incidents. There has never been any physical evidence found of the use of gas in this type of attack. But the medical profession have to take the possibility into account when they are presented with patients. They might not believe it, but they will not dispute it with their patients. It is not their job to do so. Hmmm?........So in the case of the Chadwicks the French medical profession just pretended their blood tests showed Carbon Monoxide poisoning? 8-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-05 8:17 AM Hmmm?........So in the case of the Chadwicks the French medical profession just pretended their blood tests showed Carbon Monoxide poisoning? 8-) ......... Unlikely, but more plausible than any other explanation that has been put forward so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 aandy - 2019-08-05 8:54 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-05 8:17 AM Hmmm?........So in the case of the Chadwicks the French medical profession just pretended their blood tests showed Carbon Monoxide poisoning? 8-) ......... Unlikely, but more plausible than any other explanation that has been put forward so far. So the French medical services will pretend you have Carbon monoxide poisoning? 8-) .......... That's more scary than the thought of being robbed 8-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teccer1234 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 their blood tests showed Carbon Monoxide poisoning? 8-) ......... so maybe their fridge was not completly sealed from the inside the of the van letting carbon monoxide into the van that would give them a bad headache next day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 5, 2019 Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 Carbon Monoxide is a poison, not an anaesthetic. Amongst other effects it turns the victim pink and often highly nauseous. Use of Carbon Monoxide would by now have caused a significant number of fatalities (given the number of reported cases of people being, 'gassed') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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