Confused newbie needs help...

[simon_g]

Hello - I'm sure there's already a thread on this topic, but after reviewing the first 30 of 699 pages of threads I gave up looking for the very basic.

 

I know I want to buy a motorhome/campervan [and I know the terminology is flexible]. But the market is so fragmented, I'm totally confused (eg Swift Escape, four suitable models all between £45-48k new, all on the same base; and that's only one of five or six ranges from ONE manufacturer: how does one start to make a decision?)

 

So let's start with a basic question: if MH/CV's were cars, which brand would be a Lexus, and which would be a Great Wall (other Chinese cars are available ;-))? And I'm looking for the Kia/Hyundai equivalent. No doubt a contentious question, opinions will vary, but some help please?

 

I need at least 4 travelling seats and 4 berths, preferably 1 x double & 2 x single. Preferably full-time standing headroom, so a low profile coach-built or a high-top PCV. TBH I expected there to be a huge price-break between PCV and coach-built, so there's my first preconception debunked!

 

Both drivers have C1 licences, and I've read about payloads (in a newbie thread I found) so no need to go there yet.

[EJB]

Price range does generally indicate quality.

Look at layouts and decide which would suit you.

Traipsing around lots of dealers and/or shows is time well spent.

Then you may well have a few specific questions?

PS. All coachbuilts have similar headroom whether it's high or low profile....that is normally dictated by a double berth above the cab.

[Zydeco Joe]

Sounds like you need to visit many dealers that allow you to look around all the vans they have and please look at used ones too. Most used are in great condition as motorhomers usually look after them as they do cost quite a lot of money. If you can go to a motorhome show and you will see many makes and models so you may be able to narrow your search down. Make sure that if buying from a show that the dealer is close to your home address and not 100,s of miles away at the other end of the country. People on here will have their own opinions of what is a Lexus or a Lemon.... usually the Lexus is what they own LOL. B-)

It is a great hobby that you can have great cost effective value out of long as you use the van regularly and not just 2 weeks a year.

Have fun.

[PJay]

Look for the layout that you THINK will suit you . I assume 2 children? What ages? Do they need child seats? These can be a problem fitting in some vans! Remember kids grow ! Also bear in mind that you will need space inside when it rains! They need some space to maybe play?As you both have C1 licences you do not have to keep to 3500 Where will you keep it? i would not buy new for a first van, you lose money on a new van if you find it not suitable.

Come back and ask more questions when you find what you think you like!

 

have fun in your search

PJay

By the way, welcome to the forum that gives you opinions and advice from personal experience

PJay

[Solomongrundy]

Going round the Shows helps a great deal - but if you have the chance - try and hire one for a week or so to see which layout suits you best.

We hired for a couple of years before deciding on the 'best' layout for us and a few hundred spent before paying a lot of thousands is, we found, money well spent.

Despite not wanting to worry about payloads I would suggest that with four of you the best payload possible is a must - payload weights given by Manufacturers and Dealers are usually written on the back of a fag packet and rarely bear any resemblance to reality - weigh the MH fully laden before buying.

Upgrading the weight after buying is both expensive and unnecessary if your choice of vehicle is good.

Only you know what size, length and weight will be suitable for you to drive but remember that when the weather is poor (rain, snow, wind) and there are four of you the space inside seems to reduce considerably.

The Shows often have MH with added goodies and a few miles on the clock and can help you save a few thousand.

Best of luck in your search.

[Brock]

As EJB suggests, visit dealers and Motorhome Shows to see what is available. That will give you a few ideas. Warners produce a list of their shows [see Shows tab] and also various guides [see second topic on the forum from Duncan MMM]. Chat to other motorhomers you meet.

 

You choose the perfect van by eliminating those that are not. Start with budget. Set one and this will limit your choice. Then think about size - where are you going to park it [not all neighbours like motorhomes on drives]. You worked out you are not limited to 3500kg which opens up the market for you. Think about where you will be motorhoming and how. For example, UK touring usually requires a bigger lounging area whereas the sun always shines on the Continent [so I'm told] so more outdoor living possible. Are you motorhoming throughout the year and if so, are you using it for skiing? Will you prefer to use campsites or wild camp whether on something similar to Aires in France or hidden in the mountains of Scotland? For how long will you be going away on each trip? Are you the active sort such as bikes or walking boots, canoes? Or do you like a more leisurely lifestyle - you'll need comfy outdoor chairs.

 

How big and mobile are the 4 people and how will this change over time? No dogs I presume.

 

Refine your needs, wants and can't haves and you'll find it easier! As EJB says, price is an indicator although defining quality can be subjective and inconsistent. Have a lookk at:

 

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/globalassets/pdfs/content/whats-on/leisure-vehicle-survey-results.pdf

 

Started typing this response after EJB's post and then the mug of tea arrived. In the meantime others have posted good advice.

 

[Billggski]

The hierarchy of moho's is a bit like that of cars, big German manufacturers (Hymer, Burstner etc.) At the top with their affiliated brands (Dethleffs etc.) following on, unfortunately most British made makes languish low down in the list, although many owners defend them vociferously, their record is not encouraging.

Someone may come up with a detailed "top 20" list, but all are hand made and rely on the expertise (and thoroughness) of their craft people.

[david lloyd]

Hi simon_g and welcome to the forum.

 

As you may have gathered by now asking which are the best Motorhomes is very subjective. Some people believe that only by paying a great deal of money can you get the best. Others may say you can get a very good motorhome for half the price of these expensive ones so I'm afraid you may not get a definitive answer on that. The advice given so far is very good and looking at as many vans as you can will help you enormously to narrow down your search.

 

What I would advise, during your search, is to prepare a list of what you think you want. This may change as you look around. The list should consist of Must Haves - these maybe the minimum berths, automatic or manual, engine size etc and are usually things you cannot easily change once the vehicke has been built. Next would be Should Haves and would include things you would really want but are prepared to compromise on. For instance you may like a microwave but are not too worried if there isn't one. Finally, there are the Could Haves and these may be the extras that often come with a used vehicke such as roll out awning, bike rack and so on. If they are not there you can either live without them or have them fitted later.

 

My other advice, whilst you are looking at vehicles, is not to be drawn in solely by the visual effects of the beautiful, glossy interior. If you like the look of a vehicle and think it may be what you are looking for then start to try EVERYTHING you can. Don't just sit on the seats and open a couple of cupboards but make up the beds to see how easy (difficult?) they are to do. Even with fixed beds try them out. Take your shoes off and get comfortable. In the bathroom stand in the shower and go through the motions of washing - see if you bang you elbows or, when washing in the sink, that you do not crack your head on that shiny chrome tap when trying to rinse your face. Even the toilets vary enormously in terms of usability so close the door and be seated, dies it work without your feet dangling? In the kitchen have a look to see where all your essentials will go and that you can manage with the worktop available. Even the driving position can vary because of furniture built behind the driving seat and restricting leg room fir taller drivers.

 

As you have found there are hundreds of variants out there and there will be something that meets your needs so enjoy the searching process.

 

Good luck,

David

[RogerC]

Hi and welcome.  You're not the first and won't be the last to be in the 'buying dilemma'.  All I can suggest and reinforce is as has already been said.....go along to one or more of the big shows (Warners link has been posted already) then there's a list here for you to peruse:

http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-shows-and-events-news/24-motorhome-show-calendar

Once or indeed if you decide on a particular model might I suggest you do 'not' buy at a show unless you know beforehand what the price 'should' be.  I have been at a show and seen a MH a year older than mine, same model/chassis etc and the 'special show price' was £2000 more than we paid for ours new....so look and beware.

Good luck.

[Bop]

simon_g - 2017-06-05 11:26 AM

 

 

And I'm looking for the Kia/Hyundai equivalent. No doubt a contentious question,

 

Simon,

 

That'll be a new Autotrail then. It's a bit like a Kia/Hyundai but with a smattering of Vauxhall to boot.

 

Cheers,

 

Andrew

 

 

[crocs]

Bop - 2017-06-05 5:27 PM

 

simon_g - 2017-06-05 11:26 AM

 

 

And I'm looking for the Kia/Hyundai equivalent. No doubt a contentious question,

 

Simon,

 

That'll be a new Autotrail then. It's a bit like a Kia/Hyundai but with a smattering of Vauxhall to boot.

 

Cheers,

 

Andrew

 

 

Ha, I think he was just kidding after a bad experience, Simon.

 

Autotrail is one of those brands that has multiple sub-brands ranging from Kia (Tribute/Imala) through Vauxhall (Apache) to Audi (Frontier).

 

There's something for everyone in there.

[Bop]

crocs - 2017-06-05 6:00 PM

 

Bop - 2017-06-05 5:27 PM

 

simon_g - 2017-06-05 11:26 AM

 

 

And I'm looking for the Kia/Hyundai equivalent. No doubt a contentious question,

 

Simon,

 

That'll be a new Autotrail then. It's a bit like a Kia/Hyundai but with a smattering of Vauxhall to boot.

 

Cheers,

 

Andrew

 

 

Ha, I think he was just kidding after a bad experience, Simon.

 

Autotrail is one of those brands that has multiple sub-brands ranging from Kia (Tribute/Imala) through Vauxhall (Apache) to Audi (Frontier).

 

There's something for everyone in there.

 

Ha ha, indeed, that made me smile. I had a massive hunch that Crocs would be the first to respond to my Autotrail comment. I like your style and quick with it too. Do you work for AT by any chance :D

 

Simon,

 

Crocs is right mate. I really did have a bad experience with the Autotrail brand and there's not a week goes by where we don't find something else wrong with our AT van. My own lovely wife is even starting to bug me with her fault findings too.

 

My mistake in this debate is comparing the Kia/Hyundai range of cars with that of Autotrail; Kia and Hyundai have ultimately made some massive quality advancements in recent years whereas AT has progressively got worse since 2007.

 

Good luck with whatever you choose Simon,

 

All the best, (and my apologies to Kia and Hyundai too),

 

Andrew

[colin]

From what I can gather you are a complete newbie and are considering spending a large sum on a new van.

In that case I would suggest that firstly you hire what you think might suit you. It is very easy to get it completely wrong and that can lead to big loses on a new van.

[crocs]

Brock - 2017-06-05 1:01 PM

 

As EJB suggests, visit dealers and Motorhome Shows to see what is available. That will give you a few ideas. Warners produce a list of their shows [see Shows tab] and also various guides [see second topic on the forum from Duncan MMM]. Chat to other motorhomers you meet.

 

You choose the perfect van by eliminating those that are not. Start with budget. Set one and this will limit your choice. Then think about size - where are you going to park it [not all neighbours like motorhomes on drives]. You worked out you are not limited to 3500kg which opens up the market for you. Think about where you will be motorhoming and how. For example, UK touring usually requires a bigger lounging area whereas the sun always shines on the Continent [so I'm told] so more outdoor living possible. Are you motorhoming throughout the year and if so, are you using it for skiing? Will you prefer to use campsites or wild camp whether on something similar to Aires in France or hidden in the mountains of Scotland? For how long will you be going away on each trip? Are you the active sort such as bikes or walking boots, canoes? Or do you like a more leisurely lifestyle - you'll need comfy outdoor chairs.

 

How big and mobile are the 4 people and how will this change over time? No dogs I presume.

 

Refine your needs, wants and can't haves and you'll find it easier! As EJB says, price is an indicator although defining quality can be subjective and inconsistent. Have a lookk at:

 

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/globalassets/pdfs/content/whats-on/leisure-vehicle-survey-results.pdf

 

Started typing this response after EJB's post and then the mug of tea arrived. In the meantime others have posted good advice.

 

Thanks for that link Brock. I hadn't seen this survey before but some really useful information on the various brands.

[simon_g]

Thanks to everyone for the advice, just as I expected having read some other threads. No-one bit the bullet yet on the price/quality thing (apart from 'avoid Autotrail', which message had previously crept into my subconscious anyway!!). I suspect there's a degree of 'pay for the name' at the higher end, where 20% on the price gets one 5% on the build quality.

 

To give a bit more detail, we're cruising sailors, just sailed our 'Lexus' from the UK to NZ [hence the car analogy: I know which yachts are which, including one builder's Skoda/Seat/VW/Audi/Bentley progression!], and looking for a MH to be our permanent residence for the European summer (3 months or so). Mostly UK, mix of other people's driveways, camp grounds and freedom camping, but further afield too. We enjoy getting off the beaten track so don't want to get too unwieldy. 2 grandkids, currently ankle-biters, with us sometimes. Also nice to be able to offer a bed to the occasional adult guest or two.

 

Probably missed the best of the shows before we get back to the UK, but we do have wheels and somewhere to stay so a tour of the dealers is no problem. Any opinion of a geographic region with the greatest concentration of different brands in the smallest area?

 

Point taken on hiring first, treated as a hedge against a bad decision. Any recommendations?

 

 

[Solomongrundy]

Is it just me?

Every time I try to download the Survey link my PC 'freezes' and when I found the link on the C&MC site it still froze.

Has anyone else had the same problem?

[Bop]

Solomongrundy - 2017-06-06 8:28 AM

 

Is it just me?

Every time I try to download the Survey link my PC 'freezes' and when I found the link on the C&MC site it still froze.

Has anyone else had the same problem?

 

Yep, mine just blacks-out when I open it but it's telling me to open it in iBooks.

[Keithl]

Bop - 2017-06-06 8:37 AM

 

Solomongrundy - 2017-06-06 8:28 AM

 

Is it just me?

Every time I try to download the Survey link my PC 'freezes' and when I found the link on the C&MC site it still froze.

Has anyone else had the same problem?

 

Yep, mine just blacks-out when I open it but it's telling me to open it in iBooks.

 

It opened fine for me on a windows laptop, although did take a while.

 

The info is very enlightening so worth persevering to open if you can.

 

Keith.

[HymerVan]

My standard advice (I am not on commission) buy "Go Motorhoming and Campervanning" from Vicarious Books and read cover to cover to get a deeper understanding of issues.

 

Watch out in particular about payloads. Your needs indicate a decent sized coachbuilt and with four aboard with attendant kit you may not be able to find a 3500kg vehicle that can truthfully meet your needs irrespective of what a dealer tells you. A heavier vehicle is not necessarily a problem with C1 licences but speed limits are lower for heavier vehicles and obviously bigger vehicles are more difficult to drive and park.

 

It is really only by looking at lots and lots of vans (new and used) with rose coloured specs left at home and trying to critically understand build quality and practical issues when using the van that you will be able to come to a view. Oh and you will be very lucky if you get it right first time and getting it wrong is very expensive especially if you buy new.

Remember everything in a M/H is a compromise and hence whats suits one person will not suit another.

 

The Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen base vehicle (or Ford Transit for that matter) is essentially white van mans bread and butter but designed to do 500 miles a day loaded up day after day so robust and practical.

 

I have found it not unusual for trim panels to be falling off new vehicles in the showroom and upholstery to be torn or wearing so whatever brand that might be it does say something about their QA procedures.

[globebuster]

Well, if you've been around boats for a while I think you'll pick up on the different attributes or shortcomings of various brands.

 

Water ingress tends to be an issue, good design and methodology are what you need to look at.

But be wary of some recent new innovations, I consider some them to be flawed.

 

If you've owned a decent yacht, it should be fairly obvious......

[Bop]

simon_g - 2017-06-05 11:29 PM

 

Thanks to everyone for the advice, just as I expected having read some other threads. No-one bit the bullet yet on the price/quality thing (apart from 'avoid Autotrail', which message had previously crept into my subconscious anyway!!). I suspect there's a degree of 'pay for the name' at the higher end, where 20% on the price gets one 5% on the build quality.

 

To give a bit more detail, we're cruising sailors, just sailed our 'Lexus' from the UK to NZ [hence the car analogy: I know which yachts are which, including one builder's Skoda/Seat/VW/Audi/Bentley progression!], and looking for a MH to be our permanent residence for the European summer (3 months or so). Mostly UK, mix of other people's driveways, camp grounds and freedom camping, but further afield too. We enjoy getting off the beaten track so don't want to get too unwieldy. 2 grandkids, currently ankle-biters, with us sometimes. Also nice to be able to offer a bed to the occasional adult guest or two.

 

Probably missed the best of the shows before we get back to the UK, but we do have wheels and somewhere to stay so a tour of the dealers is no problem. Any opinion of a geographic region with the greatest concentration of different brands in the smallest area?

 

Point taken on hiring first, treated as a hedge against a bad decision. Any recommendations?

 

 

Simon,

 

There was a good post on a big motorhome forum recently which asked this very question. The top ten spots all turned out to be either German or French built but no Brit vans were mentioned, albeit this is a very subjective and often snobby sport at times.

 

You've clearly got a list of requirements in mind so armed with said list I would start by visiting the various dealers to ascertain on whether you like the more stylish look (IMO) of the European brands or whether you favour the more rustic mood that a British van would give. It may sound terrible to say this Simon but I honestly think that Brit vans are styled around the typical British male requirement, i.e. Jeans, generally unstylish and a big fridge for the beer! (And why not throw a stinky dog or two in the mix just to compete the equation).

 

Then there's the price and the label. The motorhomers that I've noted recently to be the happiest campers are those with older and sometimes smaller vans who just get on with the job of enjoying their chosen sport.......... and then there's the bling brigade who desperately need to acquire the biggest, poshest, most expensive piece of kit-going to ensure that their credibility as verified world travellers is acknowledged by all those who are graced by their presence.

 

I saw an old gentleman the other day at a site near Dumfries and he literally was a pig in poo with his small Elddis van and his electric bike. He was getting so much out of life as opposed to the couple with the big Hymer across the site who were displaying all of the airs and graces of Royalty and yet we're not having a very good time at all.

 

Enough said, I'm far too heavy for this soap box so I'm off for a coffee.

 

Cheers,

 

Andrew

 

B-)

[Solomongrundy]

I've finally managed to download the Survey and had a look through it.

 

The MH manufacturer of mine isn't mentioned despite being very popular, seven out of ten MH on an Aire this year were branded the same as mine, and is a guide to buying - but only a guide and not a totally full and extensive reliability source

 

Mine came with no real faults, a few screws internally needed tightening a fraction, and has not developed any problems four years on from manufacture.

 

23,000 miles on the clock and the only obvious sign of ageing is the wear on the tyres – we don't hang about when getting from A – B and that probably accounts for the wear.

 

As they say 'You get what you pay for' and with MH buying the sky is the limit as far as expense goes but many of the middle and lower end priced vehicles are reliable, damp free and used month after month in all weathers without reliability issues and most of us are happy with our purchases.

 

There is no such thing as the perfect Motorhome, there are too many variables, but most do the job they were designed to do with minimal problems.

 

Only trying each MH that you think suits your needs will ensure you get a vehicle that you can 'live with' and I know of people who have bought on a 'whim' and lived to regret the expensive outlay when, in use, it didn't live up to their expectations.

 

Think long and hard before buying will save you angst and cash in the long term.

[PJay]

simon_g - 2017-06-05 11:29 PM

 

Thanks to everyone for the advice, just as I expected having read some other threads. No-one bit the bullet yet on the price/quality thing (apart from 'avoid Autotrail', which message had previously crept into my subconscious anyway!!). I suspect there's a degree of 'pay for the name' at the higher end, where 20% on the price gets one 5% on the build quality.

 

To give a bit more detail, we're cruising sailors, just sailed our 'Lexus' from the UK to NZ [hence the car analogy: I know which yachts are which, including one builder's Skoda/Seat/VW/Audi/Bentley progression!], and looking for a MH to be our permanent residence for the European summer (3 months or so). Mostly UK, mix of other people's driveways, camp grounds and freedom camping, but further afield too. We enjoy getting off the beaten track so don't want to get too unwieldy. 2 grandkids, currently ankle-biters, with us sometimes. Also nice to be able to offer a bed to the occasional adult guest or two.

 

Probably missed the best of the shows before we get back to the UK, but we do have wheels and somewhere to stay so a tour of the dealers is no problem. Any opinion of a geographic region with the greatest concentration of different brands in the smallest area?

 

Point taken on hiring first, treated as a hedge against a bad decision. Any recommendations?

 

 

 

Hi Simon

We also where sailors prior to buying our van. We sold the boat due to our advance ages!! So bought our van as our "boat on wheels" so to speak. but we do have a house

You will know about confined living then. So go for lay out that suits you. For 3 months I would not spend huge amounts of money , and certainly not new, as you lose money on the Vat (20%) Buy for your selves , NOT for the occasional guests You would get a good secondhand van, that when you come to sell (As I guess that is the idea) the loss in depreciation, could be nil , and in fact you could make money, friends of ours did who can over from NZ for a year. .

AS for area, well does that matter, use the web, and visit any vans that suit your requirements. Don't count out private sellers , some of us have to give up our beloved vans , so some good deals about. Just try (if buying private) to view at sellers home !

 

Good luck in your search, and let us know how you get on

 

PJay

[Barryd999]

Hi and welcome.

 

I wouldnt buy a new van if its your first unless you dont mind the big depreciation hit if it turns out to be not for you. Plus believe it or not your probably less likely to have problems with a van a couple of years old as they do seem to come out of the factory ready broken. :D Most of the issue will be ironed out by the frustrated first owner and you will probably get a few extras like Satellite TV, Solar etc.

 

As for which brands are best. Traditionally the German vans were the Lexus and Brit vans the Skodas. Im not sure thats the case anymore. The last show I went to at Harrogate and having been round loads of dealers Ive looked at some of the very latest offerings from Hymer and compared them to the top of the range Swifts and Baileys even and to me if anything the Brit vans seemed better quality. Early Hymers were built like tanks and early Swifts like I have *-) not so much. :D However ive spent four years trying to upgrade my ageing Swift Kontiki 640 and nothing. NOTHING touches it for my specific requirements so ive kept the blooming thing.

 

Layout and payload are key. Its so important you choose the right layout and make sure it has enough payload to carry all your stuff and people. So many vans especially the newer lardy ones are just not fit for purpose. This was my issue. I carry a scooter on the back and one of my must haves is a rear U Shaped lounge. Virtually nothing new is up to the job. They all have toilet and hab doors that wouldnt look out of place in Fort Knox whilst ours if you broke wind too loudly in the toilet it would probably fall to bits but all that quality comes at a price. Weight. :D

 

I Wouldnt get too hung up on brands. Find the van that ticks all your boxes. They are all running on the same running gear in the most anyway.

 

[crocs]

I tend to agree with that on brands (despite Bop thinking that I work for AT!).

 

They are all on one of only a few chassis/engine combinations, have mostly the same equipment inside and, nowadays, there's not a lot to choose between them in build quality. So it then comes down to budget, payload and layout.

 

The one for you is out there.