AlanS Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I have just heard from our caravan friends that there was a serious fire on a CC rally in Kent over the New Year. Their friends informed them after having attended the rally where their caravan was destroyed in the fire. There is very little information out there about even on the CC site and I suppose the Club is playing it close to their chest until investigations have been completed. Our friends have said that a fire broke out in a motorhome, in which 3 people had serious burns and then the fire travelled to adjacent caravan (s). Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Was it a Rally Field site or a CC site ? not many CC sites open until March. On a Rally field the spacing between units is down to the rally marshals, some are good,some are not so good. Sounds like a 'not so good' one was making sure units were far enough apart, to stop a fire spreading. It's what the Rules,which everyone moans about, are for. No fun if you are caught up in it though. Still a bit of 'a friend of a friend' told me, though. I await some facts before further comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 This might be it http://www.kentonline.co.uk/malling/news/firefighters-tackle-mobile-homes-blaze-48514/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 This is taken from the East Kent Centre website This is a Message from Loraine Tullett the Chairman of South London Centre. I regret to inform you that there was a major incident at our New Years Rally. Three members have been hospitalised with serious conditions. Our thoughts and wishes go to them and their families. Our thoughts also go to those fellow ralliers who were fantastic in our moment of need and truly faced it as the 'family' we are. I ask that rumours/stories are kept to a minimum at this present time to alleviate any further concerns for those involved. I will post updates when available and appropriate. Please send all correspondence to me and these will be passed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 We obviously don't know the cause of the fire and our thoughts are with everyone. This might be a good time to remind people that safety in Motorhome Electrical alterations/upgrades is paramount. We are seeing many Solar Panel installations without the correct electrical protection/fuses which should be there to help prevent fires. Recently surveyed one burned vehicle for an Insurance company. Luckily no one hurt and thanks to a Fire extinguisher, major damage avoided. See : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/solar-power.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 That is the one - they say in the report mobile homes but in fact were caravans / motorhomes attending a New Year Rally at the CC South London Centre meet. Alan Brock - 2016-01-09 6:32 PM This might be it http://www.kentonline.co.uk/malling/news/firefighters-tackle-mobile-homes-blaze-48514/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 And a bit more from the South Essex Centre website... "South London's shocking news Hi all I've just heard some shocking news The South London centre have had a bad fire on there New Year rally in Kent At 8.30am on New Year's Eve a fire broke out in a motorhome completely destroying it together with the caravan next to it, also badly damaging the one next to that, three people are in hospital with very bad burns, one critical. Thankfully, they had parked the vans with the correct spacing, just goes to show how easily it happens and how important spacing is, a lesson to be learnt. I have sent an email giving the centre,s best wishes to them all. Regards Paul" http://www.secc-online.org.uk/news.php Our thoughts are with those injured. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi, This must be everyone's worse nightmare, especially at new year's - Hoping those concerned make a rapid and pain free recovery. Certainly when I was in Camping and Caravan Club years ago they rigidly enforced distances between units of any type, I was in the tent section, although clearly we don't know what happened, this only enhances the sense of it. I for one will not be making changes to my Van electrical system, I know my limits - I do wonder how safe some of the home fitments I have seen, several build their own conversions and deal with their own electrical and gas installs. If we do go for Solar Panels I want to be very sure that our installer knows exactly what he's doing. We picked up our new Van today - it has a Carbon Monoxide and a Smoke Detector fitted and it will be having a fire extinguisher installed in short order, it is so easy to have a small fire that quickly get's out of hand and becomes a bigger one, - Seen vehicle fires before, also a beautiful Moto Guzi Motorcycle go up in flames entirely due to a dodgy Italian wiring loom and it wasnt fun, - Since we have a Fiat chassis, hope the electrical stuff has improved over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Tall_Mike - 2016-01-09 8:21 PM ...We picked up our new Van today - it has a Carbon Monoxide and a Smoke Detector fitted and it will be having a fire extinguisher installed in short order, it is so easy to have a small fire that quickly get's out of hand and becomes a bigger one, - Seen vehicle fires before, also a beautiful Moto Guzi Motorcycle go up in flames entirely due to a dodgy Italian wiring loom and it wasnt fun, - Since we have a Fiat chassis, hope the electrical stuff has improved over the years. These earlier forum discussions may be of interest http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fire-Extinguisher-/38805/ http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fixing-Smoke-Detector-etc-/38682/ An alternative to the ‘traditional’ extinguishers fitted to motorhomes is shown on the following links https://partners.outandaboutlive.co.uk/firepal/firepal-fp50-fp50 http://www.firepal.co.uk/ http://www.cquip.com/shop_1082402786.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 One of the reasons not happy about using "Aires", as so close that this could so easily happen. We stayed on one once and because we are RHD could not open the caravan door! PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Thanks Derek for making me aware of the FirePal. It looks ideal for locating by the hab door where space is usually a bit limited. I would use it as a supplementary fire extinguisher to the one I already have by the cab door. I've always thought, the one by the cab door would be difficult to get to in an emergency (especially kitchen fire). Does anyone know if the FirePal comes with a mounting cradle? If not, probably a bit of Velcro attached to the slender part of the unit would keep it in place, with a second bit of velcro further down to stop it swaying about. Following the fire in Kent, it's been a good wake up call for me to revisit and improve my own defences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 It would be very interesting to know what make and model the motorhome was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviddwight Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 This incident was reported on Autotrail owners group page on facebook last week, and thoughts were that it was an Autotrail one of the larger models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 The reason I started this thread was :- 1) To find out a little more of what happened. 2) To find out how the fire spread to adjacent units. 3) To find out how the persons involved in the accident are. It was not meant to try and pin it down to one particular MH manufacturer, etc. Just trying to 'learn some lessons' from this very tragic incident. On Aires we all know how tightly packed in you can be at times and in fact on some sites in France without marked bays we have had other MH's park next to us and you could shake hands through the window - that is until the Rottweiler, otherwise know as my wife put them right in no uncertain terms and she doesn't even speak any foreign languages ! We shouldn't speculate about what might have happened and should wait until a statement is made from the CC, I presume. My sincere wishes for a speedy recovery goes out to all those involved. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Robbo - 2016-01-10 2:20 PM ...Does anyone know if the FirePal comes with a mounting cradle?... FirePal extinguishers were being exhibited at the last NEC leisure show and I don’t recall mounting-brackets being included. There also doesn’t seem to be any mention in adverts about mounting--brackets, but (for obvious reasons) it’s normal for small fire extinguishers to be marketed with mountings as a matter of course. As will be evident from the links I provided earlier, there are different ‘brands’ of aerosol-type extinguisher that look almost identical, and some websites (example below) show small FirePal-type extinguishers with mounting-cradles: http://www.gem-fire.com/product.aspx?id=158&lang=en I’d guess that the ‘dents’ on the sides of the FirePal FP50 are to accept the type of mount shown in the above link, but it would be best to check with the distributor. http://www.firepal.co.uk/#!contact/c24vq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-01-11 9:20 AM Robbo - 2016-01-10 2:20 PM ...Does anyone know if the FirePal comes with a mounting cradle?... FirePal extinguishers were being exhibited at the last NEC leisure show and I don’t recall mounting-brackets being included. There also doesn’t seem to be any mention in adverts about mounting--brackets, but (for obvious reasons) it’s normal for small fire extinguishers to be marketed with mountings as a matter of course. As will be evident from the links I provided earlier, there are different ‘brands’ of aerosol-type extinguisher that look almost identical, and some websites (example below) show small FirePal-type extinguishers with mounting-cradles: http://www.gem-fire.com/product.aspx?id=158&lang=en I’d guess that the ‘dents’ on the sides of the FirePal FP50 are to accept the type of mount shown in the above link, but it would be best to check with the distributor. http://www.firepal.co.uk/#!contact/c24vq Thanks Derek for the link to gem-fire showing a similar product with mounting-cradle. I contacted FirePal this morning and they confirmed that the FP50 is supplied with a mounting-cradle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311517740949?euid=ef73854f58244b24998852dec9f46720&cp=1 This PFE-1 sold by SoCal also includes brackets..I asked them. It is also listed on Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/PFE-1-Portable-Aerosol-Fire-Extinguisher/dp/B00HNSQNEO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452587250&sr=8-1&keywords=pfe-1 £24.95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 AlanS - 2016-01-10 10:15 PMThe reason I started this thread was :-1) To find out a little more of what happened.2) To find out how the fire spread to adjacent units.3) To find out how the persons involved in the accident are.... ....We shouldn't speculate about what might have happened and should wait until a statement is made from the CC, I presume..... Don't hold your breath for CC to publicise reports on fires. I don't think they want any unfavourable publicity. The risk of a fire spreading to adjacent units will relate to construction factors and whether anything combustible is between them as well as pitch spacing, but pitch spacing is obviously the prime factor. CC lay their sites out to squeeze as many pitches as possible on to their sites and this is why they insist on accurate pitching "on to the peg", because missing the peg by as little as a foot or two could compromise spacing. CC also interpret the official spacing guidelines (6 metres between habitable units) in a way which suggests they are taking extra risk. For example when units are in rows they are 6 metres apart side to side but the distance diagonally from a unit in the next row may be as little as 3 metres. Awning, which these days may contain heaters as well as combustibles and really should be counted as part of the habitable unit, as discounted for spacing purposes. Not every pitch will be spaced in this "cut the corners" way but some will. We tend to think of CC Sites as gold standard but in this respect they don't seem to be. I think CC should publish reports on fires, especially those which spread to adjacent awnings, vehicles and other habitable units. My own experience on rally-field-type pitching is that marshals are generally careful to ensure 6 metres between adjacent caravans/motorhomes but less scrupulous about other spacing factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I hope the people injured are recovering well. I have purchased one of the PFE-1 extinguishers from SoCal this evening on Amazon market place as I linked above. If anyone is interested I will take closer up pictures when it arrives and let you see what the bracket (and packaging) is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Brambles - 2016-01-13 11:06 PM I hope the people injured are recovering well. I have purchased one of the PFE-1 extinguishers from SoCal this evening on Amazon market place as I linked above. If anyone is interested I will take closer up pictures when it arrives and let you see what the bracket (and packaging) is like. I, for one, would really appreciate it if you could post some pictures of the PFE-1. I was just about to order mine but will wait until you receive yours. I look forward to seeing the pics and any comments you may have. Thanks again - I'm sure this product will be of great interest to many, following the recent terrible incident in Kent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Brambles - 2016-01-13 11:06 PM I hope the people injured are recovering well. I have purchased one of the PFE-1 extinguishers from SoCal this evening on Amazon market place as I linked above. If anyone is interested I will take closer up pictures when it arrives and let you see what the bracket (and packaging) is like. I, for one, would really appreciate it if you could post some pictures of the PFE-1. I was just about to order mine but will wait until you receive yours. I look forward to seeing the pics and any comments you may have. Thanks again - I'm sure this product will be of great interest to many, following the recent terrible incident in Kent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 It goes without saying that we all wish those involved a speedy and full recovery... :-S (an extinguisher and fire blanket(and when on a festival field, also a bucket of water) are always kept at easily to hand). Re: Unit spacings. Be it a "Club" or an independent/commercial 'site or a "rally" type gathering, those that organise them are in a, damned if they do and damned if they don't, situation.... If they strictly enforce any spacing ruling, they get rounded on for being "overly officious" and/or called "little-Hitlers" ....and if they'd don't; and they have a more easy going approach, then they'll get accused of just packing them in and of compromising safety.... :-S In the last few years didn't the CC reduce the number of awning pitches on some sites, so as to meet the required unit spacings?...and some folk played Holy-helll about that. ..and STILL they spread out , with their multiple awnings, windbreaks, dog runs, Cadacs, BBQs etc etc (...and in the past someone even posted on here, telling us how they've moved pitch markers, so as to suit where they'd actually pitched.. ) People can't have it both ways . *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I agree with pepe, I think the reason we don't have more of these type of fires is Because of the CC 's strict spacing requirements. As for the Club packing them in, things are far far worse on Continental commercial sites and Aires, which quite a lot on here sing the praises of. The rules that many decry as draconian, are in place for a reason. A lot of CC sites had pictures of a previous incident in their site offices to back up the spacing rules, which many members were complaining about. Some folk have to be protected against themselves. Hope all involved in this incident make a speedy recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I understand that the CC complies with the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 which is enforced by the local Fire Brigade. This sets out the guidelines and standard and it is up to the CC, and its people, to demonstrate compliance. As far as I know, there is no space standard although 6m will be the norm on most, if not all, sites. It is what the Fire Brigade considers as reasonable adherence to the guidelines. This consideration ensures proper dialogue about our safety between the professionals. Rallies are run within the ACCEO [Association of Caravan and Camping Exempted Organisations] guidelines which include good practice on spacing. The ACCEO provide a spacing diagram as a guide which explains what is meant by the 6m guideline. Whilst the CC has overall responsibility, its officer 'on the ground' have a responsibility for compliance which some members, but mainly non members, see as excessive pitch rules. Even so, you cannot keep everyone in line all the time and there will be some examples where the guidelines are not met. I went motorhoming to the Great Dorset Steam Fair once and despite the attention of the marshals, two caravanners decided they knew better and parked close to each other so they could enjoy a BBQ with beer. The Fire Brigade came along and we all had to move a metre or so to restore the space the FB wanted. Over 20 motorhomes/caravans who had already set up shop had to repack and move down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I haven't heard of Fire Services specifying spacing between camping units before but it woyldn't be surprising if they nevertheless had authority of some sort. Spacing between camping units (for purposes of Site Licences granted by local authorities etc) used to be the subject of Guidelines issued by the Department for the Environment but if I remember it correctly, this has now been delegated to Historic England, with equivalent delegation in Scotland etc. Historic England also now administer the small site (i.e. CL/CS) provisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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