flyboyprowler Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 We are in the final throws of speccing up the new van. I appreciate that it would be a personal preference, but if anyone has had both a fixed gas tank, or a pair of refillable tanks, which was the preferred system and why? Bearing in mind the extra weight of the big tank, does the convenience of lots of gas outweigh the weight of two refillables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 When asking for this type of feedback I belleve you need to emphasise that you are attempting to finalise the specification of a really large Continental-built ‘money-no-object’ motorhome, where - if a fixed LPG tank is an alternative to a pair of gas bottles (which I take your “pair of refillable tanks” to mean) - the fixed tank’s capacity will be far larger than the 20-to-25 litres that's the norm for the LPG tanks fitted as standard to some UK-built motorhomes. If the motorhome you have in mind can carry a couple of 11kg refillable bottles (say 42 litres of gas) I assume the alternative fixed LPG tank’s capacity is much greater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 As per Derek's post, the weight of our Globecar's gas system with a couple of 13kg cylinders is probably higher then say a WildAx with it's 20L underslung tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Point taken Derek. Yes, this is for a big van, and in terms of capacity, it will be a 130 litre fixed tank versus 2 x 16 kg tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Are your “2 x 16kg tanks” actually bottles (ie. like Calor canisters) or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Yes, we presently run one refillable (Gaslow) and one spare Spanish bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 The largest Gaslow bottle is the 11kg version that holds 21 litres of gas, and motorhome gas-lockers are usually sized to accept an ‘exchange’ bottle that is no larger than the 13kg (approx. 24 litres) type. Larger-capacity user-refillable bottles are available (examples here) https://www.gasit.co.uk/leisure-gas-refillable-products/1-refillable-gas-bottles-gas-it.html but a motorhome’s gas-locker would need to be unusually capacious to accommodate them. Does choosing the fixed tank option mean that the gas-locker is dispensed with, or is the locker retained and could be used for external storage? (Though really large A-class motorhomes usually have massive storage capacity without exploiting an empty gas-locker.) At the moment you’ll be carrying a maximum of around 45 litres of gas, so a fixed 130 litres tank would triple your present gas capacity. I’m guessing that the fixed tank option involves only a 130 litres tank not a choice of tank capacities and it won’t be a matter of choosing between carrying around 40 litres of gas in refillable bottles and (say) 50 litres of gas in a tank - if you go for a tank you have to have a really large one. I can envisage potential advantages in having the big fixed tank if you were going to get through a lot of gas rapidly, or be parked off-campsite for long periods, or be travelling to remote places where obtaining good quality LPG is known to be difficult, but I don’t think you’ve ever said what your plans are for the new motorhome. If you carried two 11kg Gaslow bottles that would last (say) a month before needing to be refilled, then the tank would last three months. What is the price-tag for the 130-litres fixed tank option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 The cost of the tank is an eye watering £2246. I have just been talking to a current owner, and apparently the tank takes up a LOT of space and weights 100 kg. I think I am talking myself out of this now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 But you don’t have to have a 130 litre £2000+ tank do you? An underslung tank will still be cost effective whatever the capacity. Regards Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 snowie - 2018-01-30 3:58 PM But you don’t have to have a 130 litre £2000+ tank do you? An underslung tank will still be cost effective whatever the capacity. Regards Snowie And presumably an underslung tank could be retro fitted later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Given the size/type of motorhome you’ll be buying, there’s no obvious reason why a fixed LPG tank should not be retro-fitted if you subsequently find that the quantity of gas that can be carried via bottles in the gas-locker is inadequate. There should be plenty of space underfloor where a reasonably-sized tank could go. I’m unconvinced, though, that adding “an underslung tank will still be cost effective whatever the capacity” when the motorhome is an 8m+-long A-class with a gas-locker capable of carrying a pair of 11kg user-refillable gas bottles. A couple of Gaslow bottles would provide 42 litres of replenishable LPG and retro-fitting (say) a 50litre tank would double the motorhome’s gas capacity. The interval between gas-refillings would be extended, but the tank-fitting exercise would cost at least £600 and I can’t see any financial pay back to offset that. A couple of LPG tank-fitting links here http://deepredmotorhome.com/gas.php http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/GASKIT.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 Well today we have agreed to buy the new beast, and have cancelled the gas tank, and will fit refillable bottles, with a view to having a fixed tank fitted in the future, if and when we find we can't live without it. Both those articles really interesting Derek, and many thanks. Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Confusion all the way. We have bottles removable for change in different materials, steel, alu, or reiinforced pp.etc. Whit or not a refill to 80 percent, you name it. Refill international can be a problem of adaptor interface and not even allowed. A underslung gas tank on a Al-ko chassis 50 ltr/20kg gas and a weight full of36 kg,incl remote content control is about 1645. incl VAT 19 percent rerofit in germany when drinking a coffee in their premises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Hi, we have a gas tank mounted under our our Elddis Aspire 255, it is a 55 litre tank 44 litre capacity) it weighs empty just about the same as an empty 13 kg propane bottle. This frees up the gas bottle locker for extra storage. I appreciate you say a big van we are 7.5 mtrs with Alde heating, a large fridge freezer and cook most days and even now have been away since Dec 23 rd and are in Portugal and have only used around 50 litres of gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 weldted - 2018-01-30 10:29 PM Hi, we have a gas tank mounted under our our Elddis Aspire 255, it is a 55 litre tank 44 litre capacity) it weighs empty just about the same as an empty 13 kg propane bottle. This frees up the gas bottle locker for extra storage. I appreciate you say a big van we are 7.5 mtrs with Alde heating, a large fridge freezer and cook most days and even now have been away since Dec 23 rd and are in Portugal and have only used around 50 litres of gas. Thank you for this. Did the tank come with the van, or did you have it fitted, and if so, where? Enjoy Portugal, the weather is pants here in UK, and can't wait to get back to Spain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Nobody has mentioned the type of use you expect. Gas needs will be affected by the time of year you go, and therefore weather conditions expected, duration of trip, whether you use site or other ehu, how warm you want to be, how often you shower and whether the actual cost of the gas bothers you enough to want to save money on buying it. Answering those questions to yourself would better arm you for making the choices and deciding where the cost to convenience to budget equation of each option stands within your likes and needs. For me if I did not need to buy gas when away that was one thing less to faff about with, but if I did need to, I looked for the easiest most convenient and least time consuming option available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Tracker - 2018-01-31 11:48 AM Nobody has mentioned the type of use you expect. Gas needs will be affected by the time of year you go, and therefore weather conditions expected, duration of trip, whether you use site or other ehu, how warm you want to be, how often you shower and whether the actual cost of the gas bothers you enough to want to save money on buying it. Answering those questions to yourself would better arm you for making the choices and deciding where the cost to convenience to budget equation of each option stands within your likes and needs. For me if I did not need to buy gas when away that was one thing less to faff about with, but if I did need to, I looked for the easiest most convenient and least time consuming option available. There is no doubting that the convenience of having a large fixed tank means less times to fill up or indeed having to move off site should the gas run low. Against that, cost to fill, cost of carrying a full tank of gas around and loss of space where the tank is fitted, In my case in a locker, tends to make me think that we are going for a refillable set up, and if needs prevail, then an aftermarket fixed tank could be the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 A minor point you may wish to take into account when contemplating the fitting of a gas tank is the requirement to demonstrate that the gas is turned off at source when boarding ferries or shuttle. Several people with tanks have commented that this is difficult, and at times impossible, since the shut off cock is mounted on the tank, which is, of course, under the van. It might be worth discussing how they could overcome this problem with anyone you may eventually consider employing to fit the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 We had a 25 litres underslung Autogas tank as original fitting on a Warwick Duo where space inside was restricted and, apart from several issues with it when we bought the van used at 3 years old, once sorted it worked well, although the contents guage was useless so we soon learnt to judge how long between top ups, never leaving it long enough to run empty as there is no back up. It fitted well almost centrally under the van body and the only drawback was that we could not use ferries without turning the tank of at the tank which meant crawling on my back under the van - four times - off and on each way - not ideal when on holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-30 6:27 PM I’m unconvinced, though, that adding “an underslung tank will still be cost effective whatever the capacity” The interval between gas-refillings would be extended, but the tank-fitting exercise would cost at least £600 and I can’t see any financial pay back to offset that http://deepredmotorhome.com/gas.php Our tank is a miserly 12 Litres, but it lasts us 6 weeks under summer conditions, and costs us About £8 to fill! 130 Litres @ approx 80p = approx £104 which seems pretty good to me, and writing off the underslung tank over the life of the vehicle I would imagine is pretty reasonable in the context of such a van. I agree with Brian that the biggest drawback is the shutoff valve in the context of ferries: but others disagree. Regards Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-01-31 12:10 PM A minor point you may wish to take into account when contemplating the fitting of a gas tank is the requirement to demonstrate that the gas is turned off at source when boarding ferries or shuttle. Several people with tanks have commented that this is difficult, and at times impossible, since the shut off cock is mounted on the tank, which is, of course, under the van. It might be worth discussing how they could overcome this problem with anyone you may eventually consider employing to fit the tank. There has been the odd report of Eurotunnel Le Shuttle terminal staff demanding that owners of motorhomes fitted with under-chassis LPG tanks turn the tank’s gas-supply off at the tank’s outlet valve (which in many instances will involve crawling under the motorhome and removing a cover) but I don’t recall cross-Channel ferry staff having insisted that this be done. It’s been discussed here (with suggestions on operating the tank’s outlet-valve remotely) http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Underfloor-LPG-shutoff/47760/ http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Autogas-lpg-tanks-and-Eurotunnel/34967/ Eurotunnel’s ‘in priinciple’ advice is that it is sufficient to turn off all the gas isolation taps inside the motorhome itself, with the proviso that their terminal staff must be able to carry out the usual safety checks (eg. to confirm that those taps have actually been turned off). That’s what Eurotunnel’s Sales Support Team told me recently but, of course, it does not mean that a member of Eurotunnel’s terminal staff won’t insist that an under-chassis LPG tank have its gas-supply turned off at the tank’s outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 That is not correct. The rule is the shut off vave nearest to the gas container beiing a bottle or a gas tank. What ever safety mounted. Be aware that this charly check point by the terminal operator is not a staff operator. Your motor home when going back to the uk can stand in a slope during this check up. Have first gear and handbrake engaged at that moment. The same as in the shuttle. And hopefully the corridor doors on the shuttle will open to get you free to drive home. Do not bend rules of safety first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 On Eurotunnel’s Le Shuttle website, in the “Fixed gas containers (tanks, etc.)" section on this webpage https://www.eurotunnel.com/uk/site-information/lpg/ the guidance is as follows: "Fixed gas containers (tanks, etc.) For the purposes of this text, this means fixed containers that are permanently installed or fixed in a vehicle and are refillable from outside the vehicle. The quantity of gas is limited to 47kg (or approximately 93 litres) maximum for a single container and to 50kg (or approximately 99 litres) maximum in the case of several containers. Each container must be no more than 80% full. The quantity will be checked via the gauge or remote indicator but if neither are present, the vehicle will be refused.” Further down, in the 5. LPG section of the Terms and Conditions section is the following advice "Vehicles fitted with LPG containers to power domestic services e.g. cooking, refrigeration, heating and water heaters are accepted as long as the containers are switched off, weigh no more than 47kg and are not more than 80% full. If your vehicle is fitted with such a container, you must declare this when asked. LPG (Liquefied Petroleum Gas) and dual powered vehicles (i.e. vehicles fitted with an LPG tank as an alternative fuel) cannot be accepted for transport by Eurotunnel .” I’m a a semantically picky kind of guy, so I would have thought that “...as long as the containers are switched off..” implied that the any gas ‘container’, be it a ‘bottle’ or a ‘tank’, should be switched off at its outlet, which, of course, is a simple procedure with a bottle but often not with a tank.(For what it’s worth, I note that the equivalent French-language GPL-related advice refers to “bouteilles” rather than “réservoirs”.) A week or so ago - out of idle curiosity - I emailed Eurotunnel and asked what their policy was. Did a fixed LPG tank’s outlet-valve always need to be turned off prior to travelling on Le Shuttle? Or was it sufficient to turn off a motorhome’s internal gas isolation-taps as was suggested in some motorhome handbooks ( eg. Auto-Sleepers’s)? I received an email back from Eurotunnel’s Sales Support Team asking for an example of the handbooks I’d mentioned so that their "ground staff” could adjudicate and I sent them a file containing a recent Auto-Sleepers handbook. Four days later I received an email from the Sales Support Team confirming that turning off the gas isolation taps inside the motorhome would be sufficient. It was also suggested that - if I was going to travel on Le Shuttle in a motorhome with a fixed LPG tank - I should take a copy of the Sales Support Team’s email to show to the ground staff if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Hi, the tank was originally fitted to our 2005 Swift, but the firm has ceased trading, I swopped it over myself onto our 2008 new Swift and again in 2012 to our Elddis. Each time I swapped it I paid to have the installation certified by a qualified company. Before fitting it in 2012 I sent it back to Stako to have it tested and certified. Given the time we have had it and the use (in 2013 we lived in the van for 9 months), I would say we have more than recovered our initial investment and had the convenience of freeing up the original gas locker. Any spares I have needed I have bought from Autogas 2000. Our current van is fitted with a securimotion regulator, this failed so I fitted a new one and the truma inline filter and have had no further trouble. I have three addaptors which allow me to obtain gas all over Europe. I always make a point of filling up with LPG first and then diesel, I have heard of some instances where people have had problems filling up the tank. Though I have had no such problems. Hope this info helps anything else just ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 weldted - 2018-01-31 7:41 PM Hi, the tank was originally fitted to our 2005 Swift, but the firm has ceased trading, I swopped it over myself onto our 2008 new Swift and again in 2012 to our Elddis. Each time I swapped it I paid to have the installation certified by a qualified company. Before fitting it in 2012 I sent it back to Stako to have it tested and certified. Given the time we have had it and the use (in 2013 we lived in the van for 9 months), I would say we have more than recovered our initial investment and had the convenience of freeing up the original gas locker. Any spares I have needed I have bought from Autogas 2000. Our current van is fitted with a securimotion regulator, this failed so I fitted a new one and the truma inline filter and have had no further trouble. I have three addaptors which allow me to obtain gas all over Europe. I always make a point of filling up with LPG first and then diesel, I have heard of some instances where people have had problems filling up the tank. Though I have had no such problems. Hope this info helps anything else just ask. Many thanks, that is really helpful. Ainsley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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