Ford Transit batteries

[Brabander]

I have a Globecar Trendscout.

I have recently discovered that, apart from the leisure battery, there are two batteries in the new Ford transit (under the driver's seat). One battery is exclusively used for starting the van, the other one is for the electronics and the Ford ancillary equipment. The batteries are NOT in parallel ie they are isolated from each other. This arrangement is unique for the UK and Ireland.

Dethleffs, who built my motorhome, connected the static motorhome charger to the services battery only (they could not have connected the charger to both batteries as they must remain isolated).

As a result I was left with a flat starter battery after the winter although I had the motorhome connected to the mains for most of the winter. The panel in the motorhome showed a healthy voltage on both the vehicle and leisure batteries!

I have now installed an additional static charger to charge the starter battery sparately.

It took me a considerable amount of time to diagnose the problem as the Ford transit handbook does not mention a second battery and the Globecar handbook just mentions that the static battery charger maintains the vehicle starter battery. This is of course correct for all European countries except for the UK and Ireland.

 

Another word of warning NEVER park your Transit van/Motorhome with the driver's door close to a wall as the new Ford Transit has only one conventional lock on the driver's door. All the other doors have to be opened with the remote key fob which can only be charged in the vehicle. After a winter the battery in the key fob will definitely be flat and you can then only enter the vehicle via the driver's side door. This happened to me and I had to crawl under the vehicle and contort myself to get the key in the door. It took me a number of attempts to get the door open, by then I was filthy. Another couple of centimeters closer to the wall and I would have had to break a window.

I asked Ford for help, absolutely useless!

 

[mike 202]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I also have a Ford Mk7 and the two batteries under the seat are both charged by the engine, the second battery via a device called a split charge relay which joins the batteries when the engine is running. The second battery is as you have suggested isolated from the engine battery when the engine is switched off. This is done so that your average guy being enthusiastic about keeping working could only flatten the Aux battery, not the engine battery as well.

A solution to your problem is usually achieved with a device called a "battery master" which will allow the engine battery to be charged excess energy once the acommodation battery is full.

This device "battery master" also allows the engine battery to be charged with excess from a solar panel.

I am sure that experts on here will be able to point you to wiring diagrams if you are interested.

Regards Mike

[Mel B]

Hi Brabander - welcome to the mad house! :-D

 

Maybe I'm being daft here, but wouldn't it be better to actually use the 'van during winter, every couple of weeks or so, to keep it in good condition generally and charge up the base vehicle batteries with the alternator? :-S That's what we do. :-)

[JohnP]

My Transit 7 only has one starter battery under the drivers seat.

[teflon2]

I think you are being sensible Mel. We always take our motorhome out at least once a month to warm and charge everything so its ready to go with no nasty suprises. Considering how much it costs just to keep legal a nice winter outing is just the job. 8-)

[Brian Kirby]

Unfortunate!  However, hardly Ford's fault, since the van was finished as a motorhome by Dethleffs.  If the UK RHD chassis really differs from the European LHD chassis in this way, which seems a little unlikely (I think all FWD Transits are made in Turkey?) perhaps you should notify Dethleffs UK of this problem - so that the factory can be forewarned and find a way to safely charge both batteries without upsetting Ford's electronics?

It is generally recommended that a motorhome is used at least monthly to ensure all fluids are circulated and warmed, and that the tyres do not develop flat spots.  A good run of 15 - 20 miles is about right, and will take care of the key fob problem as well.  They all have their quirks, as you have discovered, and we all have to learn how to work around them.  Knowledge is power, and now you know!  :-)

[Keithl]

Brian,

 

Ford Transits are still being produced at Southampton so this might possibly account for the difference in battery installations. UK built having 2 and Turkish only 1.

 

Brabander,

 

I suggest you run your reg number or VIN through ETIS to find out where yours was built. This may answer the conundrum.

 

Keith.

[mike 202]

I used ETIS and my 2008 2.4L, rear wheel drive was built in Turkey Nov 2007 (registered 6 months later in 2008), all a bit odd re the batteries. It has 2 batteries under the seat, 1 x engine battery and 1 x service/accomodation battery @ 60A/hour. Autosleepers (Windsor Coachbuilt) added a second accomodation battery during mfr @ 85A/hour in parallel with the Ford supplied one. This although not the same size/capacity gives a total of 145A/hour accomodation and so far (touch wood) has worked OK.

I had a battery master fitted by the dealer from day one plus 85watt solar panel. The van (sorry motorhome) is stored over winter and the batteries are always topped up. I do however religously take it for a 30 mile run every 4 weeks as has been suggested above.

Never considered the problem of parking close to a wall, so thanks for the tip. By the way some of the key fobs are faulty and discharge quite quickly - they are not the subject of a recall and are only changed on customer complaint/request as mine was.

Mike

[Brian Kirby]

Keithl - 2010-05-28 7:17 AM Brian, Ford Transits are still being produced at Southampton so this might possibly account for the difference in battery installations. UK built having 2 and Turkish only 1. ............ Keith.

But isn't it only the chassis-cab versions that are made at Southampton, Keith, for the whole of Europe, while Turkey makes the van variants?

[Clive]

I had a play with one of these transits which included removing the drivers seat and the plastic cover over the relays and fuses under the back of the drivers seat base. A good poke around with a multimeter, engine off, engine on etc. BOTH batteries are used to start the engine. The two batteries are linked by a bi-polar latching heavy duty relay. The relay includes a permanent magnet to keep it energised even if the coil supply is totally removed. An oposing coil supply is used to cancel out the magnet to force the relay to release. i.e it has two stable states, closed and open.

The logic ensures that the relay is open when the ignition switch is turned off. This ensures that even if you run accessories until the second battery is flat the primary battery will always have enough urge in it to start the motor.

To me this sounds like a simple and good "split charge" arrangement although all cables must be able to handle starting currents. So if you want more capacity I would just link my leisure battery directly in parallel with the second battery under the seat with 35 sqmm cable. Why does it need to be more complicated than that?

 

Chive

 

[mike 202]

Clive thanks for the explanation re the split charge magnet etc, my trade is electrical but detailed information regards relays etc and how things actually work is informative and reassuring should problems arise.

mike

[Brambles]

Clive, did you happen to note what the charging voltage is from the alterator is, 14.4 volts or 14.8? I am wondering if they have started using the Smart charging system on the Transits they use on the Mondeo and Focus.

[LMC Camper]

I have a Ford Transit with two batteries but one is under the driver's seat and the other is in the habitation area. I solved my flat starter battery problem by installing a Battery Master - simple and very effective. But you cannot beat a monthly winter run to really keep the motorhome working.

Battery Master available from Van Bitz.

[colin]

Assuming both Clive's and Brabanders info to be correct, the simpliest (whilst retaining ford system) answer to me would be to install a 35 sgmm link wire and heavy duty isolator switch between the under seat batteries. When in normal use isolate batteries with switch, when storing and using charger to keep batteries topped up use switch to link them together.

[Clive]

On the Transit I played with I did use a digital voltmeter to determine when batteries were on charge or discharge and nothing made me think that the voltage was any other than a nominal 14 when on charge. Mind you I was not aware that Ford were playing with alternative charging algorythms so was not looking to determine this.

 

Simplest method of keeping the starter battery topped up during vehicle layup via leasure battery hookup or solar panel is a bridging fuse.

 

Details here

http://www.motts.org/BRIDGING%20FUSE.htm

 

C.

[emmbeedee]

Not all Mark 7 Transits come with two vehicle batteries, or with key fob locking come to that either! Ours has just the one vehicle battery under the driver's seat, with the leisure battery, added by Roller Team, under the passenger seat.

I initially thought that the manual door locks, on both cab doors, was a mistake, as even the most basic Transit van has remote central locking operated by a key fob. After obtaining the Ford ETIS printout, however, I found that this was the way it was ordered. Presumably someone at Roller Team was looking to save a few pennies on base vehicle cost. >:-( >:-(

If you have a Transit, the ETIS is very informative, BTW.

Ours was built on 04.03.2008, at Otosan in Turkey.

To keep the vehicle battery charged in the winter, I use Clive's system of a fused lead between the leisure & vehicle batteries. This then charges both batteries when on hook-up. Thanks, Clive, for that useful tip! :-D :-D

[hallii]

I had to go and play "hunt the batteries", I found three on my Mk7 Transit.

 

One under the drivers seat, one under the passenger seat (with a load of fuses, wires and the charger set up), and one in a nice proper made box in the bottom of the wardrobe.

 

Now I have to find out what is what, I assume the one in the wardrobe is a habitation battery, but I have no idea about the other two.

 

Hymer 522 '07 (must take a photo and change my avatar)

 

 

Hallii

[Bazza454]

hallii - 2010-05-31 4:09 PM I had to go and play "hunt the batteries", I found three on my Mk7 Transit. One under the drivers seat, one under the passenger seat (with a load of fuses, wires and the charger set up), and one in a nice proper made box in the bottom of the wardrobe. Now I have to find out what is what, I assume the one in the wardrobe is a habitation battery, but I have no idea about the other two. Hymer 522 '07 (must take a photo and change my avatar) Hallii

At a guess, the battery under the drivers seat will be the original Ford starter battery, the one under the passenger seat will be the original habitation battery fitted by Hymer and the one in the wardrobe will be an additional habitation battery either fitted at new by the dealer or retro fitted by a previous owner.

I have an additional habitation battery but managed to fit it alongside the original one under the passenger seat.

[Brabander]

I still have my Trendscout.

I sorted out the 2 vehicle battery problem by installing a second charger under the passenger seat next to the Elektroblock. I switch this charger on every now and then during the winter when the vehicle is laid up for longer periods.

I concur that it is better if the van is taken out for a spin at least once a month.

 

Off topic, we bought this motorhome principally for its compact size which allows us to travel on narrow roads without upsetting the locals too much and park in most car parks.

The penalty for this is, of course, that there is little room inside. The kitchen is tiny but that is not a problem as we tend to eat out. The bathroom is definitely not suitable for showering and we created some knee space when using the WC by adding a hinged flap to the door. The remaining gripe with this van is the lomited space between the washroom and the passenger seat. You have to be very slim to transit (forgive the pun) this space.

I resolved this by reducing the size of the washroom compartment. I shortened the bulkhead between the driver's seat and the compartment. Showers are now totally out but this did not reduce the space available for using the WC.

 

This was my first Transit based motorhome and I am happy with the Transit's performance. It took some time to get accustomed to the tendency of the engine to cut out when starting off (it is very hilly here) and the clutch tended to smell badly during the first few months when manoeuvring on sloping sites. This has now disappeared but I was worried that the clutch was giving the ghost in the middle of deepest France.

 

I keep looking at other vans but I have never found anything better which meets our specific needs:

1. <6m long and no wider than a standard panel van (max Ducato)

2. Two single beds, always ready for use ie not made up from bits and pieces

3. Toilet compartment with WHB

 

We only stay in well equipped camp sites and frequently stay in hotels or B&B's instead if there is no good camp site in the area. We rarely cook meals in the van.

 

If any contributors know of an ideal alternative to the Trendscout I would be happy to hear from you.

Thanks!