Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I have been reading the post about gaslow and other refill type tanks, but can't find it now. As I am new to this site can anyone tell me how I find it, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-02-22 2:14 PM I have been reading the post about gaslow and other refill type tanks, but can't find it now. As I am new to this site can anyone tell me how I find it, thanks. You won't be able to find that thread I'm afraid as it will have been removed by the forum's Moderator. Presumably this was a) because the thread's title inadvertently referred to the Gaslow company when the intention of the original posting was to refer to possible difficulties in France topping up any refillable gas reservoir, and/or b) because the thread had degenerated into a childish slagging match. You are lucky, as you've only been reading that thread. Other forum members who have tried to contribute sensibly to the discussion have now essentially wasted their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-02-22 2:43 PM Other forum members who have tried to contribute sensibly to the discussion have now essentially wasted their time. Not really this will do as a new thread on subject please ON TOPIC comments only I was thinking the latest BP lite bottles may be a resonable alternative for those of us who dont use much gas or go on extended trips...... but it appears they they are not available in France so that idea is a bit of a non starter *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I should have read more, the person above gave the reason I could not find it under another heading which I have just read, thought for a minute I was having a senior moment, or maybe on the wrong website site. I could see there was some argy bargy in the discussion when I last looked, but was any conclusion come to, as I had not read any more since about the middle of last week. I don't know, decisions decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Being concious of my weight I was wondering about the gaslite bottles aswell, can they be connected to the refillable pipe work, or are the refillable bottles different to normal bottles (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-02-22 3:03 PM I should have read more, the person above gave the reason I could not find it under another heading which I have just read, thought for a minute I was having a senior moment, or maybe on the wrong website site. I could see there was some argy bargy in the discussion when I last looked, but was any conclusion come to, as I had not read any more since about the middle of last week. I don't know, decisions decisions. If you have a look on the MHF forum you will find a long thread on this. Personally I feel the whole thing has died a death. Their were two posters on here who filled a total of five times over past few weeks with no problems. I have seen no new reports anywhere of people being refused a fill in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I did have the BP bottle briefly but it was a real pain trying to find an outlet, when I bought into them it was mainly because of european availability, now reading BPs site it say's they have not had enough demand, so back to square one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 pelmetman - 2011-02-22 3:03 PM Being concious of my weight I was wondering about the gaslite bottles aswell, can they be connected to the refillable pipe work, or are the refillable bottles different to normal bottles (?) Certainly not. Refillable's have an 80% cut off valve. Their is no safe shortcut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-02-22 2:14 PM I have been reading the post about gaslow and other refill type tanks, but can't find it now. As I am new to this site can anyone tell me how I find it, thanks. Hi , if your still looking for information on refillable systems this will give you something to read , http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=refillable+gas+systems&author=&days=&x=43&y=15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-02-22 2:43 PM ...................... Other forum members who have tried to contribute sensibly to the discussion have now essentially wasted their time. Hear, hear! There was a considerable amount of potentially useful information about the circumstances surrounding reported difficulties re-filling in France, and some guidance on differences between French, and UK, standards for refillable installations.Is it really the case that the moderators can only respond by summary removal of entire threads - rather than by removing, or redacting, the offending posts, or by similarly editing a heading?If so, it doesn't seem to leave any scope for thoughtful intervention, so is a bit of a gratuitous slap in the face for those who freely contribute their time and knowledge to benefit others. Something to review? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Thanks for that link, my reaction, oh my God that is a lot of information. Some reading for a rainy day. Maybe a Richard Branson type is needed to launch a system of compatible European wide exchange bottle system. I had read enough on the other post to make me a little nervous about a DIY system for now, some of which I had noted, sadly some of which I had not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-02-22 2:43 PM You are lucky, as you've only been reading that thread. Other forum members who have tried to contribute sensibly to the discussion have now essentially wasted their time. I don't envy any Moderator's job, and certainly have no intention of criticising the actions in this case. I would agree that the thread was ultimately in a state where it was probably best "pulled". It does seem a pity, however, that a set of (IMO) relevant questions, and answers that have taken some time to research, have to be removed in their entirety because one or two people have been somewhat "naughty". I assume there is no way the the thread could be edited, or perhaps certain posts could be removed? Even if there was, I suspect that the amount of time the moderator can spend (given the existing "lightness of touch"), wouldn't allow for such, and considered in general, that lightness does appear to work. So, we are where we are! :-S For anyone who wishes to recapture any of the more relevant details of the thread, then they can be retrieved fairly easily from the "cached" pages on Google, if one searches advisedly - though of course these will disappear over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi all currently in Silves Portugal, filled up with gas near Perpignan on way down no problems, tried to fill up outside Barcelona but did not have the new Euro adaptor, filled up at Portimao no probs, also at Castro Marim, am leaving to start journey home tomorrow, will not need any gas but will try to fill up with Diesel at French garages that sell GPL and see what the situation is coming home via Capbretton and Bordeaux, hope this may provide some info ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sorry should of stated have a 55 litre tank with external filler >> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Corky 8 - 2011-02-22 3:29 PMHi , if your still looking for information on refillable systems this will give you something to read QUOTE]Blimey very useful link Corky....But gas bottles still seem a bit of a nightmare in Europe. I think I will fit a new refillable sytem to new van as I am sure it will remain as practical, and sounds like worth the expense to avoid the bloomin grief and hassle......you just get spoilt by the convenience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Perhaps I could broaden the subject and ask if anyone who had read all, or the majority of answers, would they feel confident in having a system fitted tomorrow for use mainly when abroad, given that is seems an external filling point seems to be almost mandatory from what answers I did read. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 weldted - 2011-02-22 3:52 PM Hi all currently in Silves Portugal, filled up with gas near Perpignan on way down no problems, tried to fill up outside Barcelona but did not have the new Euro adaptor, filled up at Portimao no probs, also at Castro Marim, am leaving to start journey home tomorrow, will not need any gas but will try to fill up with Diesel at French garages that sell GPL and see what the situation is coming home via Capbretton and Bordeaux, hope this may provide some info ?? Thank you Weldted,Look forward to your report, Safe Journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-02-22 3:58 PM Perhaps I could broaden the subject and ask if anyone who had read all, or the majority of answers, would they feel confident in having a system fitted tomorrow for use mainly when abroad, given that is seems an external filling point seems to be almost mandatory from what answers I did read. Thanks in advance. Hi, I have a Gaslow,twin 11kg cylinder,s fitted, I fitted it because I didn't want to keep lifting cylinder,s in and out also I can refill both my 11kg cylinders,for the cost of one Calor gas 11kg exchange cylinder, I,m lucky enough to have a local garage with a auto gas pump, adaptor,s are available for European countries, I took it out of my last motorhome to put into my present one, because they belong to me.My filling point is in the Gas locker as I didn't want to drill a hole in the Side of my Motorhome.All of the cylinder connecting pipes/tubes are made of stainless steel so have a longer working life than the rubber counterparts You should get a few more positive replies and even some negative responses such is our Helpful forum, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I can see huge advantages in having such a system, just a that a seed of doubt has been set reading this website and others.I guess at the end of the day I'll take the middle ground and get one bottle that can be filled, and take a calor. I'll be in no worse position than now with two 6 Kg calor bottles. We anticipate longer stays hence the need for a reliable supply route. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-02-22 3:58 PM Perhaps I could broaden the subject and ask if anyone who had read all, or the majority of answers, would they feel confident in having a system fitted tomorrow for use mainly when abroad, given that is seems an external filling point seems to be almost mandatory from what answers I did read. Thanks in advance. Many variables will /may apply, especially as things are still at the speculation stage. Lets wait & see if Dave Newell gets a response from the UK Industry body. But with apparent reduction of refilling sources - if interested my 1st step would be to compare the costs of a Fixed Gas Tank v Refillable Cylinders. A Fixed Gas Tank would "appear" to be much less detactable as too it's purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hello, did not know such a thing existed as a fixed tank apart from for cars, mmmmm. And you mention someone who is looking into this does he have a website. But perhaps I should wait a little longer before taking the plunge then. Life's complicated, but thanks. I used to be undecided, now I just cannot make up my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Apologies for jumping in with a reply on the back of your post, but (blindly trusting that this is not what got the original pulled, and apologising if it did) I'll restate (with a little less formatting and both credits and apologies to Brian Kirby and Derek Uzzell) a little of what was posted in the original (deleted thread), and then try to move that on a bit. Derek Uzzell 19 February 2011 5:31 PM French motorhome forums carry a good deal of fairly recent discussion about the actual 'legailty' of employing autogas other than for fuelling vehicles , use in domestic properties or vehicle heating. The debate centres round the claim that, although there is an EU-wide regulation that permits autogas to be used for vehicle HEATING, this regulation (apparently) does not extend to using autogas for alternative purposes like running a motorhome's fridge, oven, hob, etc. This is mentioned in the "Norme européenne" section of the following web-page http://www.camping-car-webzine.fr/acc-gpl-borel.html If this is true (and it probably is), then, should Total, Shell, etc. choose to forbid motorcaravanners from replenishing their vehicles' gas reservoirs via Total/Shell autogas pumps, it would be extremely difficult to contest such a prohibition. [/Quote] Brian Kirby 20 February 2011 12:22 PM I think it may just have something to do with the fact that both Shell, and especially Total, also sell "bottled" gas at higher prices but, so far as I am aware, lower tax. So, any excuse to stop autogas, with presumably smaller margins, being used for "domestic" purposes would be financially attractive. Just picking a few bits from the Borel site (link in Derek's post above), for anyone wondering, there seem to be differences between what is required for compliance with French fixed installation rules, and what I think may be seen as normal for UK. The fill point must be permanently installed to the bodywork of the van. The cylinder/s must be permanently fixed in place with metal straps secured to the side of the locker. There must be no carrying handles on the cylinders. There must be a safety valve on the cylinder. It must not be possible to more than 80% fill the cylinders. There must be a gas level indicator on the reservoirs. There must be a remotely operated electric shut off valve on the installation, that may be wired across the ignition so as to prevent use of gas while driving. Under present legislation, it is permissible to use autogas for domestic heating, but not for cooking, and refrigeration. This is regarded as an anomaly, and it is expected this will be resolved during 2011 to permit all appliances to use autogas. Whereas it is denied that there is any more oil in autogas than in bottled gas, there is a suggestion that refillable cylinders may be susceptible to a build up over time. The origin is stated to be the liquefaction compressors. Is is stated that exchange cylinders are purged and cleaned each time they are re-filled, whereas refillables are not. It cites a regulatory requirement (France) for refillables be purged and cleaned at least every 40 months, with a recommendation that at least one intermediate clean is carried out. It highlights the absolute necessity to ensure all gas burning appliances are extinguished when at filling stations. It cautions against using in the winter months gas bought in the summer, because summer autogas has a higher butane content, so may not "gas" well in winter. [/Quote] Robinhood 20 February 2011 1:00 PM I'd already been round the native Borel site some days ago, Brian. http://www.borel.fr It is quite clear what (it thinks) is required to meet R 67-01, the issue is that this, as a standard/regulation, appears to have been around for some time (to support that statement, I can quickly find proposals for amendments to it dating from 2001). It is the same regulation that is quoted in the change to CT (French MOT) rules pertaining to GPL propelled vehicles, from Jan this year. What isn't clear is whether the standard regarding installation in motorhomes has been amended recently, whether the legislation has been changed to incorporate the standard, whether it always was legislated for and incident(s) or commercial considerations have caused (some?) suppliers to tighten up, or whether, as could quite easily be the case, one or two incidences of difficulty in filling (which I understand have also been reported in the UK in the past) have started hares running. If, and its a big if, the Borel stance on what the regulation requires is correct, and if (again a big if) the regulation is entered in legislation, then I doubt many current UK fitted refillable systems will comply. But as the French say about the status of 'if' in an argument - "with a few "ifs" you could put Paris in a bottle" I'm quite happy for research to be done on the background, looking for a definitive answer, but as yet, no-one seems to have found one. All the rest, as they say, is mere speculation. *-) [/Quote] Whatever the commercial imperatives involved, the implication is that Borel at least are taking Regulation 67 to apply to non-propulsion use of GPL in automotives. I have until now found it impossible to locate the text of Regulation 67 on any of the EU sites (though I thought I knew where I should be looking). Via an indirect reference (which described looking for it as a bit like searching for a needle in a haystack made of (other) needles :D) , I finally got there on the following link. http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs61-80.html?expandable=0&subexpandable=0 I haven't had time to peruse at length yet, but the short amendment 3 is certainly relevant to the thoughts put forward above. My concern is that the prime focus of the regulation appears to be for GPL propulsion systems, not habitiation equipment, and hence, the regulations may only appy to those systems whose prime function is in fact for propulsion, not those isolated for only habitation use. That will take considerably more reading, which anyone is welcome to assist with......... .....oh well, thought not! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi Dave Newell http://www.davenewell.co.uk/ has a Motorhome Service, Repair business and is a regular on the forum. He also fits "Refillable Gas Systems". He posted on the removed thread, that he had e-mailed the LPG Industry body for information, regarding the reported situation in France concerning refilling Gas Cylinders at Service stations with "Autogas". As Dave stated - at this time it is STILL speculation & we should wait clarification. Derek Uzzell posted some information regarding the French Regulations (I can't recall the words)As the thread progressed, it appeared some Shell & Total Service Stations are displaying notices forbidding refilling with Autogas for purposes of Heating, Cooking or Refrigerators, i.e. anything other than the primary Fuel for the Vehicle. The cause "appears" to be relating to 2 incidents in 2009, where there was at least one fatality, whilst refilling with Autogas.Some posters (lucky enough to currently be in France) said they had managed to refill OK, some had seen "prohibiting Signs" at some Service Stations. Think that very briefly summarises where it was at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Hi Dave Newell http://www.davenewell.co.uk/ has a Motorhome Service, Repair business and is a regular on the forum. He also fits "Refillable Gas Systems". He posted on the removed thread, that he had e-mailed the LPG Industry body for information, regarding the reported situation in France concerning refilling Gas Cylinders at Service stations with "Autogas". As Dave stated - at this time it is STILL speculation & we should wait clarification. Derek Uzzell posted some information regarding the French Regulations (I can't recall the words)As the thread progressed, it appeared some Shell & Total Service Stations are displaying notices forbidding refilling with Autogas for purposes of Heating, Cooking or Refrigerators, i.e. anything other than the primary Fuel for the Vehicle. The cause "appears" to be relating to 2 incidents in 2009, where there was at least one fatality, whilst refilling with Autogas.Some posters (lucky enough to currently be in France) said they had managed to refill OK, some had seen "prohibiting Signs" at some Service Stations. Think that very briefly summarises where it was at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 Oh isn't all such a pain, I think I'll go have a lie down and watch the weakest link. Thanks folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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