59peejay Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Hello everyone, just registered on the forum after purchasing an Elddis Suntor 300 and am just getting myself acquainted with it but have a problem with the Dometic Fridge, it works on 240v and gas but not on 12v from the starter battery, after pulling the fridge out it is fed from a 4mm pair red and black but have no supply when engine is running and revved, I cannot see this wire coming from the battery terminal!, does anyone know where the supply originates or is terminated in the van, thanks Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Hi Phil and welcome, What year is your Suntor? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 You will have a permanent 12 volt feed to your fridge so the light etc will work when on gas, the 12 volt feed to your fridge when engine running is activated by the alternator sending a signal to a relay that allows the 12 volt to flow to a heating element in the fridge 12 volt, Do you have an independant switch to liven the fridge when the engine running, some do , all vans have different set ups but it is still a common theme, Welcome aboard too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 There should be an Elddis handbook which might (or might not?) help? There should also be Electrolux manuals online which should at least show you the cable should be which might might help? Have you asked the seller of the van? Better it happens at home than in the South of Spain!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 vindiboy - 2020-08-11 3:42 PM You will have a permanent 12 volt feed to your fridge so the light etc will work when on gas, the 12 volt feed to your fridge when engine running is activated by the alternator sending a signal to a relay that allows the 12 volt to flow to a heating element in the fridge 12 volt, Do you have an independant switch to liven the fridge when the engine running, some do , all vans have different set ups but it is still a common theme, Welcome aboard too. Often referred to as a split charge relay, which also often controls the alternator supply to charge the habitation battery when the engine is running. One thing you might try is to disconnect any charging sources from the habitation battery, connect a voltmeter across the habitation battery terminals and then start the engine. If you see the voltage across the battery rise it is getting charged, if not, it isn't. Not proof positive, but indicative of the likely culprit. Look in the engine bay, probably somewhere just below the windscreen, for an electrical box, probably black, probably near the starter battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-08-11 5:29 PM vindiboy - 2020-08-11 3:42 PM You will have a permanent 12 volt feed to your fridge so the light etc will work when on gas, the 12 volt feed to your fridge when engine running is activated by the alternator sending a signal to a relay that allows the 12 volt to flow to a heating element in the fridge 12 volt, Do you have an independant switch to liven the fridge when the engine running, some do , all vans have different set ups but it is still a common theme, Welcome aboard too. Often referred to as a split charge relay, which also often controls the alternator supply to charge the habitation battery when the engine is running. One thing you might try is to disconnect any charging sources from the habitation battery, connect a voltmeter across the habitation battery terminals and then start the engine. If you see the voltage across the battery rise it is getting charged, if not, it isn't. Not proof positive, but indicative of the likely culprit. Look in the engine bay, probably somewhere just below the windscreen, for an electrical box, probably black, probably near the starter battery. I am sorry Brian, but I think that your first sentence above is misleading. Such an arrangement is possible, but it would require a relay with three contacts which are electrically separate, but are connected together when the coil is energised. I believe that Lucas made a relay of this type in their 6RA series which were housed in a metal case and terminated with 0.25" blades. A relay with two normally open (NO) contacts could be connected to provide the desired result. A more common arrangement is for the fridge relay to be controlled via D+, which is the alternator field connection, and for the coil of the split charge relay to be connected in parallel with the fridge. This makes the advice in Brian's second paragraph very pertinant, since if the 12V power is not arriving at the fridge, the operation of the split charge relay is questionable. The above connection is used in order to avoid overloading the D+ point. If too much power is drained off at this point, the alternator may fail to start generating........ I would like to commend 59peejay for his investigative approach. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 The Elddis Suntor 300 model seems to have been marketed from around 2003 to 2005. This advert shows photos of a 2005 example https://www.themotorhomecompany.co.uk/usedmotorhomes/elddis-suntor-300-four-berth-motorhome and I’ve copied a couple of the images below. This Talbot Owners Club discussion relates to a similar problem with an Autoquest 320 - but I’m guessing that will be a fair bit earlier vehicle than Phil’s Suntor. https://talbotoc.com/no-power-to-fridge-whilst-engine-is-running-autoqu-t27055-s10.html?sid=a77c7a915cc74125c1c2509f474a68ad The usual arrangement for a UK-built early-2000s motorhome is to have three relays 1: A charge relay 2: A fridge relay 3: An ‘isolation’ relay that disables the habitation 12V equipment (except for the fridge) when the motorhome’s engine is running. Where the relays are depends on the whim of the motorhome manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59peejay Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 The Suntor is a 2004 model and the fridge is the one in Dereks photo, one thing that puzzled me was that i took a live feed from the battery to the connector block on top of the fridge, the neutral seems ok, but it did not light up the red neon in the switch!, these are pretty robust and don't usually blow!, using my multimeter on current setting i could see that it was pulling about 9 Amps so presume the fridge is ok. I think from all your replies i need to look harder for a small relay hidden somewhere!, thanks for your help,Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I had An Eldiss 320 as Dereck mentions. The relays for this were in the engine compartment, looking in from front on the left hand side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Mickt - 2020-08-12 4:25 PM I had An Eldiss 320 as Dereck mentions. The relays for this were in the engine compartment, looking in from front on the left hand side. Older Autosleepers also used to place relays just under the leading edge of the bonnet because they were close to the battery I suppose? It created problems with water and corrosion and often a 12v fault could be traced back to a corroded connector on a relay which was often difficult to see and get at as outwardlt it looked OK. My cure, once the offending contacts had been restored or replaced was to fit some shielding to deflect rainwater and driven road spray - and check all the other connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 59peejay - 2020-08-12 4:12 PM The Suntor is a 2004 model and the fridge is the one in Dereks photo, one thing that puzzled me was that i took a live feed from the battery to the connector block on top of the fridge, the neutral seems ok, but it did not light up the red neon in the switch!, these are pretty robust and don't usually blow!, using my multimeter on current setting i could see that it was pulling about 9 Amps so presume the fridge is ok. I think from all your replies i need to look harder for a small relay hidden somewhere!, thanks for your help,Phil. Phil, May I correct you on your use of the term "neutral" in relation to a DC circuit. Neutral generally refers to the return conductor of an AC circuit, which generally remains at earth potential. The reading of 9A obtained by placing your multimeter in series with the low resistance DC element of the fridge will be misleading. This is because the resistance of the multimeter itself is significant when compared with the resistance of the element which will be less than 1 Ohm. With the meter removed the current taken by the element when the engine is running,will probably be about 15A. I think that your deduction that the element is OK, is correct. Mickt has suggested a possible location of the habitation related relays in the engine bay. A popular alternative is under the plastic hood at the centre rear of the engine bay. The relays (probably standard automotive type) will be about 1" cube in size, but a plug in base could add a similar volume. Please note that on my 2006 Ducato, there is only a Fiat installed relay for cold starting below 0C under the plastic hood As has been suggested, it would be worth checking that the habitation battery voltage rises after starting the engine. The fuse which possibly connects your fridge and split charge relays to the starter battery, can blow during jump starting. This could result in no charge to the habitation battery, and no supply to the fridge. Look for additional wire(s) with possible inline fuse, connected to the starter battery positive, and continue your wire tracing. Please be aware that the split charge relay will have both starter, and habitation batteries connected to its contact. Take care. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew-boy007 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I'm new to the forum but was very glad to have read all the inputs when I logged in as a guest. I've now joined so I can benefit further and also thank those of you from whom I took confidence ot tackle a problem that I had. I have a CI Riviera 181 which has a Dometic 3-way (three-way/three way) fridge. The fridge ceased to work on gas whilst we were travelling this year. After reading about the problems that others had I explored the gas supply which was fine and the hardware which, though rusted and dirty, worked fine. The piezzo electronic ignition fired perfectly. I read about the controller and how the terminals on those can loosen. Whilst exploring this I checked the terminals on the gas regulator switch (apologies if this is not its formal name). One of these terminals was loose and the wire only stayed in position due to the hardening of the wire. The connector had decayed and would no longer grip the terminal. By filing the terminal and the existing connector to remove crud and corrosion and to get to bare metal, I established that this connection controlled gas flow and, when i held the connector on the terminal and fired up the fridge, it worked within 4 clicks of the piezzo ignition unit starting. So, after removing the connector, stripping back the wire to good copper, adding a new connector (no new wire required, thankfully) and re-connecting it, the fridge worked fine on gas. So, my thanks to the forum members who contributed for their inputs and wise words. I hope my contribution helps someone, sometime. Now, on to fixing the 12V supply.... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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