robdav Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I'm about to install a couple of LFD90 batteries in parallel. The existing battery has a tray underneath it. Are the trays simply a way to secure the battery or catch the battery acid if a cell breaks? Thanks Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I have seen solid metal etched right through over time and the battery did not appear to leak, maybe fumes alone will do it. I would fit some sort of plastic tray, a search on ebay "plastic tray" will bring up lots of ideas. Don't forget the fixing strap(s), in the event of a bump the battery might fall over! H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdav Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 I will definitely fit straps. The problem is because the two batteries will be end to end I can't find one tray the right size to fit two or two separate trays that will fit in the cupboard. I could probably get one made in aluminium but wanted to know thoughts on whether they are required or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Two sturdy plastic shopping bags may be suitable and are easily replaceable, the sort supplied by posh shops that are generally thicker and larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 A shallow tray will be OK provided you catch a slow leak / topping-up overspill in time, but for any real leakage it will be inadequate. If the tray is to catch leaks from split cases, it must have a capacity equal to the battery liquid contents, if less why bother? In fact overspill is the only real reason I can see to fit a tray at all and given that the LFD90 does not require topping-up, I would not bother to fit one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 spospe - 2019-02-25 12:37 PM A shallow tray will be OK provided you catch a slow leak / topping-up overspill in time, but for any real leakage it will be inadequate. If the tray is to catch leaks from split cases, it must have a capacity equal to the battery liquid contents, if less why bother? In fact overspill is the only real reason I can see to fit a tray at all and given that the LFD90 does not require topping-up, I would not bother to fit one.. I'd be tempted to agree with one proviso, fit a vent tube to both batteries (and blank the opposite ends) and ensure it exits the MH downhill all the way. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 The quoted dimensions of a Varta LFD90 battery are Length: 353mm Width: 175mm Height Inc Terminals: 190mm The advantages of having a battery undertray are that (assuming the tray is appropriately sized) it will stop the base of the battery from moving horizontally and it can also faciltate the fitment of retention straps or a hold-down clamp. As spospe has said, a shallow tray will have limited value for retaining spilled electrolyte - if that’s considered a must-have requirement the battery would need to be housed in a battery-box. I know that undertrays are available that are capable of restraining a Varta LFD90-size battery because my Rapido has such a tray that also incorporates straps (and Rapido offers a 2nd tray as an option). This UK advert is for a steel battery-tray with a clamp and should accommodate a Varta LFD90. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201955251260 I don’t know how/where Pilote installs the leisure-battery in their “Foxy” panel-van conversions, but - as Rob says the batteries will be in a cupboard - fitting a 2nd tray may be unnecessary if space is limited provided that the extra battery can be prevented from moving about when the motorhome is being driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robdav Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Thanks for all the responses. I don't think I'm going to bother fitting a second tray then. The second battery can easily be secured and hasn't got room to go anywhere. It seems that the primary purpose for these trays is to secure the battery and maybe catch any over spill were you topping up the battery, which shouldn't be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 If you want something to catch and neutralise small spills of battery acid, search for Battery Mat. I had one under the battery in a classic car for years and can confirm it does what it says. I now have a couple beneath the batteries in our van. Try Frost Auto Restoration or Holden for stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I’m not sure I understand about battery-acid spillage. A battery shouldn’t leak and, if the battery can be fitted with a vent-tube, that tube should lead any ‘fumes’ to a point well below the battery’s base. When I top up a battery’s electrolyte-level I use a large hypodermic syringe and the worst thing that can happen during the topping-up procedure is that a few drops of fluid end up on the battery’s top - but that fluid is water not acid. The only way that acid could come out of the battery is if I were daft enough to put so much water into a battery-cell that the cell overflowed, but surely people don’t do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Well, my old car had a period battery with push in cell covers, and for whatever reason it seemed not unlikely that some battery acid would end up in the battery tray in days of old, judging by the corrosion and white powder that was often apparent in a lot of vehicles. I suspect that the electrolyte was prone to escaping through the caps (which had there own venting system) as it sloshed about when the vehicles were being driven. Having restored the car and fitted a battery mat, my battery tray was still pristine 15 years later when I sold the car. I agree that modern sealed batteries shouldn't leak, but I'm a belt and braces type of person and it seemed sensible for me to spend a relatively small sum putting a couple of mats between the batteries and the otherwise unprotected floorpan of my van for peace of mind. Until recently I used to inspect sometimes tens of vehicles a day in my work, and there were plenty of older vehicles with corroded battery trays. Mostly plastic on newer cars though, which solves the problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I think that older batteries had cases that hardened over time and could crack if handled badly on a garage concrete floor. Modern day plastics are a more forgiving. Ignorance of youth, taught me that keep topping up on cell , and having a wet battery bottom were related, before the battery fell on to the road ! Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 This Canadian webpage discusses storing 12V batteries on concrete floors https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/general-science-you-asked/concrete-truth-about-batteries-stored-concrete In the early-1960s, when I was skint and trying to run a car on a shoestring, I well remember the corrosion and white powder on battery terminals that Deneb mentions - but I haven’t seen those issues for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Derek, old fashioned technology batteries used to gas out corrosive fumes which not only affected the top of the battery but could also condense onto the area around it. You may even remember some having little holes/ 'vents' in each filler cap before the days that central venting became the norm? Like you I was skint (nothing changes) and I would use a battery beyond it's useful lifetime, which probably meant more gassing than it would have when new? The best Starter and Habitation area batteries just don't gas any more so corroded battery trays and terminals should be a thing of the past, However, if the battery uses old technology, like the Banner Energy Bull, some of the Trojan and Rolls ranges, etc then a battery tray might be a good idea. As a guide, we would suggest that if a battery has filler caps then it is likely to gas significantly more than the best and external corrosion be a bigger threat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 My Rapido has a Banner Energy Bull 957 51 leisure-battery with removable cell caps that allow the battery’s electrolyte level to be topped up if necessary. However, those cell-caps have individual rubber seals (which is why the caps can be swine to undo) that will prevent any electrolyte or gas from escaping via the caps. Obviously, if this type of Banner battery does lose electrolyte, either the battery is damaged or the electrolyte is being lost through the battery’s vent aperture and, if a vent-tube were not fitted, the acidic electrolyte/gas being lost will potentially corrode anything near the battery that is vulnerable to corrosion - but that’s why Rapido fits a vent-tube that directs any lost electrolyte/gas to the outside air beneath the motorhome’s floor. The attached photo is of the interior of a Rapido 640F’s rear ‘garage’ and shows the Banner Energy Bull battery inside. I THINK the shallow tray under the battery is metal, but the tray is just screwed to the floor beneath it and the screws are (probably) not sealed to prevent any acid solution that collected in the tray from running through it. All the tray really does is limit the battery’s horizontal movement and provide a mounting for the two straps that pass over the battery’s top. Rapido’s 2nd-battery option for a 640F just adds another adjacent tray and there is probably space for a 3rd tray if one so wished. Neither arrangement would be possible on my own 640F as I carry a spare-wheel mounted on the vertical bulkhead to the right in the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Battery location in my van is simple.....both starter and leisure are in the engine bay and you have no other option. Both are on metal trays which sit directly on top of each inner wheel arch, a prime corrosion area for Transits and to make matters worse, Ford covered the inner arches in sound proofing first, then bolted the battery trays over that.....a brilliant way of encouraging corrosion as soundproofing harbours rain water like a sponge and few owners ever think to look underneath the soundproofing so the rusting continues unchecked and develops into rot, and then you've got serious problems! When i bought my van that was the first job i did.....removed both battery trays and cut the soundproofing out off the inner wheel arches. Metal was in good order so i was lucky but i still soaked the tops of each arch in a liberal coating of waxoyl. The battery trays got more intensive treatment. Both given good coats of Hammerite and once dry, waxoyled. They should last a good many years now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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