Newbie seeking guidance/reassurance please!

[Zafira]

Evening All

 

Once again I thank you all in advance for your time/comment/assistance - I'm taking you up on the suggestion that I get back in touch once I've collected the motorhome (Hobby A55GS). I'm a "lass" on my tod so picking my way through the multiple handbooks and trying to understand/recall what I was told at the handover.

 

I've summoned courage to hook the Hobby up to the mains for the first time this evening, (switching off the motorhomes circuit breakers prior to connecting the mains charging cable, switching the circuit breakers back on once mains charger plugged into mains socket in house). A bit alarmed by the fan coming on by the habitation battery and have switched fan off by using the m/homes control panel - the handbook says that if the fan isn't used then the charger's performance is also reduced to prevent it from overheating. If I left the fan on am I correct to assume that the fan would stop once the habitation battery had optimally charged itself? If it does switch itself off eventually would it come back on again when the battery feels the need to recharge itself say during the night?

 

Many thanks from "Green as Grass"!

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

I assume that your Hobby A55GS is brand-new and - if that’s the case - it will be as shown here:

 

https://www.hobby-caravan.de/en/motorhomes/siesta-de-luxe/modell/modeldetails/show/Model/a55-gs-2/

 

The “Standard Features” section indicates that this model has a sophisticated electrics management system described as follows:

 

"The Hobby-designed CI-BUS on-board management system controls all devices and functions within the on-board network. The control button plus six additional softkeys under the display allow convenient and intuitive navigation between menus. Whether TRUMA, DOMETIC or other makes: thanks to the non sector-specific interface, the new symbols and graphics of the Hobby TFT control panel represent a cross-section of all manufacturer symbols. That way the user is presented with an already familiar symbolic environment and can read off data from the display, e.g. date/time, inside/outside temperature, water tank filling level and battery charge/discharge, or activate settings directly. Other CI-BUS-capable onboard components such as heating and air conditioning can also be centrally controlled. The system is standardised and updateable, thus ensuring compatibility with next-generation devices. To date, up to 15 devices can already communicate with the control panel. (See manufacturer’s instructions)”

 

It also has a Hobby battery management system with HELLA battery sensor:

 

"The IBS intelligent battery sensor supplies all the key data such as charging time, charging current and charging voltage, as well as the remaining running time and discharge current of the starter and body battery (gel or AGM) in autonomous mode. All values can be read off from the TFT control panel. The battery sensor supplies the intelligent charger with the exact charging current and voltage it needs, thereby ensuring energy-efficient charging up to 100 percent capacity. With this system, charging times are reduced by approx. 30% by comparison with conventional chargers.”

 

The battery is apparently a 95Ah AGM type.

 

You’ve explained that you are able to switch off the cooling-fan via the motorhome’s control-panel and your handbook advises that switching off the fan reduces the battery-charger’s performance to prevent overheating. Consequently I’m guessing that if you switch off the fan it will stay switched off.

 

It is possble that ‘fan being ON’ is a default setting (so if you switch the control-panel itself OFF and then ON again the fan would also be switched ON) and you could confirm if that’s so by experimentation. I suspect that the ability to switch off the fan is to stop the noise it makes from intruding when people are sleeping, but without access to the relevant Hobby Owner Handbook (which I can’t find on-line) that’s another guess.

 

Regarding your questions

 

"If I left the fan on am I correct to assume that the fan would stop once the habitation battery had optimally charged itself? If it does switch itself off eventually would it come back on again when the battery feels the need to recharge itself say during the night?”

 

If your Hobby Owner Handbook has no guidance about this, you really need to contact the dealership that sold you the motorhome and ask them. Logically, if the fan automatically stops running once the habitation-battery is fully charged and the charger shuts off, it should be anticipated that the fan will automatically restart running when the charger begins charging again. If the dealer does not know, you could experiment by leaving your motorhome on 230V mains hook-up with the charger and fan both running and see if the fan automatically cuts off and on.

 

As you are going to have enough to think about with a complex new motorhome and no background experience, I suggest you put ‘fine detail’ on the back-burner for a while. In your position, I’d just switch off the fan when I found its noise intrusive (sleeping in the motorhome at night for instance) but otherwise leave the fan switched on.

 

[Zafira]

Morning Derek

 

Many thanks indeed for your time and trouble (internet research) to respond so fulsomely to my query. I have done as you suggested and "experimented" with the fan setting once the habitation battery has reached its optimum charge.

 

I shall do as you suggest and just enjoy the motorhome without attempting to understand in depth the whys and wherefores of how the technology works behind the scenes - apologies as the need for greater understanding is a hangover from my former professional life, i.e. rapidly having to understand how things work/do they "behave" as they should do in particular situations/etc/etc.

 

Once again I am indebted to you for your time, trouble and help.

 

All the best

Zafira

[Will86]

Zafira

 

The whole of life is a learning process and a new motorhome is just another add-on. Where ever you go and whatever problem may arise, someone here has been in the same predicament.

 

It can be a slow process and when you make it to your first overnight onsite stay, ask anyone around you for advise, such as where to put what and why. Choosing a site near to home can be an advantage.

 

Will

[aandncaravan]

Zafira, Generally the charger fan will only operate when the charger is hot and needs cooling down, so usually only when working hard.

 

As you guess the fan will stop (some are also speed dependent so the fan speed may also slow) as the battery approaches full charge and the charger cools down.

 

Leaving the fan 'on' the mains 230v charger is a good audible guide to the battery state, and if the battery is good, it should not be on for more than a couple of hours on a 50% discharged battery.

 

The fan wouldn't normally be heard at night time as the battery should only be discharging at a very low rate. Under these conditions the charger would only get slightly warm as it won't normally be doing any real 'work'.

 

 

I just wonder why the charger is apparently working so hard on a battery that one might expect to be fully charged?

Can you think of a reason the battery might be so discharged, as I am assuming this is a recently purchased new vehicle that has also been driven recently so one might expect the battery to need no more than a 'top-up'?

 

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Hobby has a history of idiosyncrasy when it comes to motorhome building (curved body-sides, ‘wrap’ instead of paint, diaphragm water-pump + tap micro-switches, etc.) and it looks like this continues with their current models’ electrical systems.

 

I’m reasonably sure that Zafira’s Hobby A55GS has a 25A Waeco PerfectCharge batterycharger as described here

 

https://www.getawaeco.com.au/files/Manual_IU152A_IU252A.pdf

 

Accessories for this charger include Hella’s IBS

 

http://www.hella.com/emergency/assets/media_global/621_KI_IBS_12V_HELLA_EN.pdf

 

(which the A55GS has) and the Waeco manual for that charger indicates that it has a ‘Sleep Mode’ when the device runs at half power and more quietly. It is also possible to activate/deactivate Sleep Mode remotely - a capability that Zafira apparently has via her motorhome’s control-panel.

 

[aandncaravan]

Derek, thank you. Interesting.

 

 

 

[Zafira]

Afternoon Chaps (&Chap-esses!)

 

Many thanks for taking the time to respond to my somewhat panicked query! My former job had me needing to rapidly assimilate complex technical information/how machines behave in fault situations so I like to be reassured that I've not got a "fault" state!

 

Some background info:

 

1. Monday, 27 March 2017 - motorhome driven brand new back from dealers, a distance of 85 miles, to the best of my recollection both batteries (ie. vehicle starter and habitation batteries - there's only x1 habitation battery) registered 13.8volts at the dealer.

2. Friday 31 March 2017 - I hooked the m/home up to the electric and posted the start of this thread. I shut down the charging speed and left the hook-up connected as younger daughter wanted to sleep in the m/home, the next morning I removed the "restriction" on the charging rate and the fan kicked in again. I then disconnected the m/home from hook-up, batteries registered 13.8volts.

3. Monday 3 April 2017 - took the m/home out for a spin, roughly 50 miles in total on mainly motorway.

4. Tuesday 4 April 2017 - just looked at battery readings just now, habitation 12.4volts, vehicle 12.5volts.

 

This is a motorhome now a year old, was used as a vehicle for shows.

 

Any further comments/thoughts very much welcomed, even if its to tell to stop worrying and just get out and enjoy the vehicle! I'm doing my first campsite outing in a couple of weeks, meeting up with motorhoming friends who are kindly going to help me set up at the site.

 

Once again many thanks for everyone's input! :-D

[Zafira]

Sorry forgot to say that as far as I was aware there was nothing switched on to make a draw on the battery last Friday save for brief use of the habitation lights - no heating or anything else. Daughter even used a torch to get herself into the alcove bed (I should add that I'm not some monster mother, younger daughter is in her late 20s and is preparing to do a walk of the Southern Upland Way and wanted to road-test her swanky down sleeping bag - given that it was p*ing with rain here I suggested that she sleep in the m/home cf. her new tent - so I'm not all bad :-S )

 

Ta

[Brian Kirby]

Zafira, I think your batteries may be suffering from "dealer abuse". I would expect the 13.8 volt reading at the dealership to have been because they had it plugged in to the mains. The rapidity of the drop in indicated voltage appears to me to suggest both may have been damaged during the shows. (I assume it was a van used by the dealer at shows?)

 

It should take 18 - 24 hours to fully charge the battery via its mains charger. After charging and a further 24 hours "rest", it should then show a voltage in the region of 12.7V (possibly a little more, depending on battery type. I suspect your No 2 voltage was before, or just after, the battery charger was disconnected.) 13.8V is too high for a fully charged, rested, battery. Readings of 12.4V and 12.5V indicate that approximately 25% of the charge was lost over 3 - 4 days of standing with no load (the starter battery always carries a small load, required to keep the vehicle electronics "awake", which could be exacerbated if an alarm, and/or the standard Fiat radio is/are is fitted).

 

I'm guessing that the habitation battery is about 85Ah capacity, which means you can safely use in the region of 40Ah (about 50% discharged, at which point it should show about 12.2V) before it needs re-charging. Going below this level (depending on the type of battery fitted) is liable to cause permanent damage - the further below, the higher the risk. The same is true for the starter battery, and I'd guess its capacity will be similar. I left our 2013 Fiat based van at a storage depot in 2015 for nine weeks. It has an alarm, but the alarm was not set. When it was collected the starter battery voltage read 12.5V and the habitation battery (which was isolated) 12.9V (AGM). As you can see, this is a much longer period standing than three days, and is about right for a newish battery in good condition.

 

My suggestion, given you seem to have the van handy and can put it on charge, is re-connect the charger, leave the charger fan running, and let it stay on charge for 24 hours. Then leave the batteries to rest a further 24 hours, and take the voltage readings. Then repeat after a further 24 hours, and see how much the charge has dropped, and report back.

 

I'm not familiar with the charger fitted to your van, but I would not expect the starter battery to be fully charged by the charger. My limited experience is of Schaudt and CBE chargers, which provide a "maintenance" charge to the starter batteries - designed to maintain the battery at full charge, but not to re-charge a significantly depleted battery. It could be that the battery was heavily discharged at the dealership and the distances you subsequently drove were insufficient to restore it to full charge, but it should have been near a full charge after your second trip.

 

If, after you have done as suggested (or as more knowledgeable others may suggest) the batteries are showing signs of damage, come back to us for a bit more advice before you contact the dealer.

[Graylion]

A battery cooling fan isn't unusual. My old (1978!) Daimler XJ6 - and all of that ilk - had a fan in the battery box. It was thermostatically controlled. If the battery was hot it switched on; when cooler it switched off. Just like any normal thermostat. If any motorhome has a battery cooling fan I would expect it to have such a thermostatic switch - especially considering the cost of the motorhome!

[Derek Uzzell]

There are several potential difficulties trying to provide guidamce/reassurance to Zafira.

 

The first relates to the age/specification of the Hobby motorhome itself. My original assumption was that the vehicle was brand-new, but that’s proved not to be the case.

 

There can’t be too many Hobby A55GSs in the UK and I note that the following link advertised a 2016 demonstrator model - except the motorhome shown is clearly built on a Fiat Ducato X250 chassis which was not produced after mid-2014. Now, I’ve absolutely no idea if this is relevant, but if that is Zafira’s motorhome it would be significantly older than might have been anticipated.

 

Then there’s the Hobby’s electrical system.

 

This late-2015 forum-thread discusses batteries fitted to a Hobby Siesta motorhome (bought in August 2014)

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Hobby-and-Warranties/39712/

 

For recent-ish motorhomes It looks like Hobby has chosen an Exide Start-Stop AGM battery (of 90Ah-95Ah capacity) as the leisure-battery

 

http://www.exide.com/gb/en/product-solutions/transportation/product/exide-start-stop-agm.aspx

 

and I would have thought the vehicle’s starter-battery would continue to be the FIAMM-branded wet-acid product factory-installed by Fiat and located beneath a large ‘hatch’ in the floor in front of the left cab-seat. (I don’t know where Hobby would put the leisure-battery in an A55GS.)

 

I have assumed (based purely on on-line information and crystal-ball gazing) that Hobby has chosen a Waeco PowerCharge battery-charger. If that’s correct, then the charger’s charging regimen would need matching to the AGM leisure-battery - otherwise the AGM battery will not be correctly charged.

 

I’m not familiar with the electrical management system Hobby uses. It’s plain that it is sophisticated (see attached TFT control-panel photo and following brief YouTube link)

 

 

and the Hobby handbook would be required to establish the system’s full functionality. It’s possible (as is the case with some sophisticated motorhome electrical systems) that the Hobby system needs to be user-calibrated to produce accurate voltage readouts. The 13.8V, 12.5V and 12.4V readings Zafira quoted are all consistently on the low side - particularly the 13.8V one. (It might be worthwhile checking what the voltage readings are for both batteries when the motorhome’s engine is running, as the readouts should be well over 14V in both cases.)

 

I don’t think a crash-course in battery-charging technicalities is going to help Zafira much, particularly when forum advice will unavoidably be based on assumption and generalisation. However, it would be wise for her to confirm that her Hobby’s electrical system is properly set up, is functioning correctly and that the batteries are in good health. If this involves a trip back to the vending dealership, so be it...

[aandncaravan]

Zafira, As Derek says anything we say has lots of guess work in it, but if your charger started it's fan up on high speed, it would have only been to keep cool because it was working hard, which you would not expect it to be doing given the 'fully charged' history you subsequently published.

 

The low voltage readings could well be as Derek says a 'calibration issue', But I would guess that along with the chargers behaviour you have a habitation battery past it's best?

 

Again as Derek states, I would expect your vehicle to be fitted with an AGM or Gel battery (commonly known as VRLA) that have a higher voltage than old fashioned batteries, so the voltage range is not as you often see in charts on the web or that people quote.

 

I have attached a chart published by Yuasa, the biggest battery manufacturer in the World, and you will see that for a quality modern or VRLA battery the 'resting voltage is 13v and 50% discharged is 12.5v.

 

To me, being very aware that batteries are left to run down on a Dealers forecourt so are often tired before the new owner takes them over, I would suggest both your batteries are approaching their twilight years.

But, exactly as Derek says that is just guesswork.

 

 

If the Dealer does replace the batteries, please come back on here for advice on how to set the charger up for the habitation battery, which maybe (hopefully) will be a different technology requiring the charger settings to be altered?

 

 

If you ever have trouble sleeping at night and want to know a bit more about batteries, then have a read of our Battery Technology page : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php it is guaranteed to put you to sleep.

 

There are also pages on Generators, Solar Power, long term connection to Electric Hook Up, Reverse Polarity, How a battery Works, How a Charger works, etc.

 

All very good if you have serious Insomnia.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Excellent stuff Derek! From Zafira's posts, either the batteries are not charging as they should, are not holding charge as they should, or the electronics are not set up as they should be. I'm assuming that the vehicle will have left the Hobby factory correctly set up and in good order. Dangerous assumption, I accept, but our 2007 Hobby Van came fault free direct from the factory to us, had a gel battery, and the CBE charger was correctly set to "gel". So, on that limited basis, it seems Hobby do not, as a mater of course, expect the dealership to do much "fettling".

 

The van then passed to the dealer who, presumably, put it on his forecourt and, when it didn't sell, took to running it around shows to see if it would sell there. Finally, having had it in stock for longer than he wanted, he sold it at a discount. Vans at shows tend to be used as accommodation by show sales staff, many of whom know little to nothing about motorhomes or their batteries. Consequently, there is ample opportunity for "battery abuse", and untutored fiddling with the equipment. I also suspect that the van will have been off hook-up at the shows, so discharge levels by the end of the show will probably have been high. Few dealers maintain their stock on charge, and some (most?) merely run the engines for a while periodically to maintain some charge in the batteries. This is based on my own experience of one Hobby van, and my observations at shows and dealerships - others may disagree.

 

As Derek says, it seems the van will have to be returned to the supplying dealer for problems to be resolved, either by setting up the electrics properly, fixing a charger fault, or replacing one, or both, batteries. My slight concern is over replacement batteries. I'm assuming the dealer will be somewhat reluctant to do this, having already lost a fair chunk of his expected profit via the discount and added costs of unsold stock and running the van around shows. I therefore suspect he may prevaricate and fiddle around unproductively, before biting the bullet and installing two new batteries. My other concern is that he may, under those circumstances, provide inferior replacements on the basis that his customer will not spot the difference - after all, how many of us understand battery technology when we buy our first van, or even after years of ownership for that matter!

 

That is why I suggested Zafira puts the van on charge for 24 hours, with the charger fan left to do its thing, noting the charge voltages at both batteries, then leaving it to stand another 24 hours and making a note of the Voltage reading of both batteries, and finally repeating this after a further 24 hours. (I agree with also noting the voltages with the engine running, and would suggest this is done before the van is connected to mains, as I understand that it is unwise to run the engine while on hook up) Basically, she should see over 14V with the charger working/engine running, at least 12.7V after the first 24 hours, and no Voltage change over the next 24 hours. If the charge Voltage is below 14 from either source, or the Voltages on either/both batteries fall/s below 12.7 over 48 hours, she will have some simple evidence to put to the dealer to indicate a fault plus a level of knowledge, rather than just a novice buyer worrying unnecessarily.

[Zafira]

Evening All

 

Many thanks for your time, your posts make for very interesting reading...............

 

An update:

 

4/4/17 - evening - habitation battery voltage 12.4 / vehicle battery 12.5

6/4/17 - 1400hrs immediately prior to hook-up to mains - habitation 12.2 / vehicle 12.4. As soon as on mains the fan was running, shows readings of 14.4 & 13.0 respectively. 1730hrs that evening, i.e. 3.5hrs after starting on hook-up readings are 14.4 and 13.9 respectively, the fan is not running.

7/4/17 - 1435hrs, i.e. after 24.5hrs on mains charging and immediately prior to disconnecting the hook-up, the readings were 13.8 and 13.3 (no fan running)

7/4/17 - 1845hrs the readings (after being 4hrs+ off mains hook-up) the readings are 12.7 and 12.8.

 

The manual for the motorhome shows a picture within the battery management section, this shows habitation battery reading of 14.2 and vehicle battery of 13.5

 

A question to the dealer asking what voltages I could expect to see provided the response "12 to 14 volts depending upon the model".

 

I shall have a look tomorrow afternoon and see how things are doing..............

 

Many thanks for reading! :-D

[Zafira]

Forgot to say that cross referencing the manual/the type of habitation battery likely to be present (i.e. gel) then this appears to be confirm that calibration has been done to identify the correct type of battery judging from the battery display into on the Hobby's "master" screen.

 

Ta

[Robbo]

It might help if you could confirm exactly what type of leisure battery is installed, Gel/AGM/flooded acid. The fully charged resting voltage can vary between battery types, as indicated by the graph shown in a previous post.

 

Don't worry about the pic shown in the user manual showing voltages - that was obviously taken with the batteries under charge condition.

 

You really need to allow the batteries to rest for at least another 24 hours and then report the voltages for a meaningful assessment.

 

It might be worth investing in a cheap multimeter so you can compare the voltages shown on the panel with the actual voltages taken at the battery terminals (with the multimeter).

[Derek Uzzell]

Zafira

 

First of all, can you confirm please whether your Hobby A55GS is the type shown here (built using a Ducato X250 chassis)

 

http://www.eshartleygroup.co.uk/motorhomes/detail&vid=77980

 

or the type shown here (built using the later Ducato X290 chassis)

 

https://www.hobby-caravan.de/en/motorhomes/siesta-de-luxe/

 

Historically Hobby has fitted an Exide gel-type habitation-battery (example in this advert)

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Exide-G80-Gel-Battery-for-Hymer-Motorhomes-P7893.html

 

More recently Hobby has fitted an Exide AGM-type battery instead (example in this advert)

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Exide-017-AGM-Car-Battery-AGM900-EK900-P8006.html

 

(However, I don’t know when the change-over took place.)

 

I’ve guessed above that Hobby now uses a Waeco battery-charger and this has a charging regimen for wet/gel batteries and another for AGM (“fleece”) batteries. If your motohome has a gel habitation-battery, then the 14.4V figure you’ve quoted would be as anticipated: if the habitation-battery is AGM-type, a figure of 14.8V would be expected.

 

For anyone motorhome-familiar it should be relatively straightforward to establish visually exactly which battery-charger and which habitation-battery your motorhome has. But without such information, trying to decide how your motorhome’s electrical system should be behaving becomes much tougher.

 

The manual for the Waeco battery-charger suggests to me that the cooling-fan running for an extended period should not be considered unusual. This is a high-output device with two modes - ‘maximum charging’ with fan running until the habitation-battery is fully charged, and ‘quiet charging’ when the fan has been deliberately switched off and the charger’s output is reduced accordingly.

 

What does give me cause for concern are your statements

 

"4/4/17 - evening - habitation battery voltage 12.4 / vehicle battery 12.5

6/4/17 - 1400hrs immediately prior to hook-up to mains - habitation 12.2 / vehicle 12.4.”

 

If your motorhome has been unused from the evening of April 4 to 1400hrs on April 6, provided that no ‘drain’ (eg. a light being left on) has been placed on the habitation-battery, its state of charge has reduced significantly (12.4V to 12.2V).

 

As Robbo has explained, after a battery has been fully charged it needs to rest for a good few hours before taking voltage readings and, even then, the readings may not be 100% conclusive as far as indicating the battery’s ‘health’ is concerned.

 

As your motorhome’s vehicle-battery will be continuously maintaining certain elements of the vehicle’s electronics, a voltage-reading of 12.5V/12.4V when the motorhome has been standing idle for a couple of days may be OK. But the 12.2V reading for the habitation-battery is worrying if no electrical load is being placed on the battery to drag its voltage down.

[Zafira]

Afternoon All

 

O to be able to put a multimeter across the habitation battery terminals - impossible as access to battery terminals would necessitate removing the driver's seat!

 

The habitation battery is the following, gleaned from gap below the driver's seat:-

 

EXIDE Start-Stop AGM EX950 95Ah. (yes you read that correctly "Start-Stop"!)

 

The battery readings just now (nothing left on overnight other than the vehicles Cat 1 alarm, which didn't go off) - habitation & vehicle both reading 12.6

 

As to Derek's photos - my vehicle is NOT the one shown in the Hartley's ad, the front of my vehicle resembles the photo in the Hobby brochure. Looking once again at chassis plate etc the number starts with ZFA25000002A#####

 

Best regards

Zafira

[Derek Uzzell]

Zafira

 

Thanks for the clarification - it was worth confirming which Ducato chassis (X250 or the more recent X290) your Hobby was built on just in case your motorhome was older than might have been anticipated.

 

Hobby (and plenty of other motorhome manufacturers) commonly installs the habitation-battery beneath one of the cab seats, but at least the battery Hobby has chosen to fit is totally maintenance-free.

 

There’s no need to be concerned about the Exide battery being labelled “Start-Stop”. When Hobby switched from Exide gel habitation-batteries to Exide AGM batteries, the latter product was labelled “Micro-Hybrid” and the capacity was 90Ah (see following link)

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Exide-017-AGM-Car-Battery-AGM900-EK900-P8006.html

 

As you’ll see, that particular battery has been superseded by a 95Ah-capacity equivalent and Exide has rebranded its AGM range with the “Start-Stop” label.

 

http://www.exide.com/gb/en/product-solutions/transportation/product/exide-start-stop-agm.aspx

 

[Zafira]

Derek

 

Many thanks for your response and for clarifying that "STOP-START" labelling is ok for a habitation battery - it had me somewhat alarmed!

 

So I think I shall just see how things go with that current habitation battery, how long it serves me for - I anticipate that I would only likely to be doing x1 night at a time "off-grid" before reverting to mains hook-up on a site. I have no TV so the habitation battery would be used for the fridge & lighting & hot water, potentially heating in addition.

 

In the northern wilderness here we have had sunshine, I heard a loud pop/creak from the Hobby and now having matching gaps in the roof seals just below the alcove level so I've raised that issue with the dealer.

 

Many thanks once again

 

Best regards

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Zafira, If the Charger has been set to charge at 14.2v, as you indicate it is above, and you have an AGM battery that needs a 14.8v charge, it is highly unlikely that the battery has escaped unscathed.

 

As we originally surmised, subsequently confirmed by yourself, the fan only runs when the Charger needs cooling from working hard, as per most fan cooled units.

 

A good AGM battery should hold 13v for weeks if there is no drain. That yours is almost 50% discharged in hours is not a good sign.

 

The fact the charger went into high charge mode, with the fan kicking in to keep the unit cool, when the batteries should have been fully charged, plus the rapid discharge you have noted, suggests the battery is long past it's best.

 

If you further factor in the battery has not had the ideal charge voltage it needs, plus the likelihood the battery suffered at the hands of the Dealers/Show use I would be surprised if you get more than a few hours 'Off Grid'?

 

The risk of what is clearly a poor battery damaging the charging systems in the vehicle, is also very real if you continue to ask them to work hard charging up a battery that should be recycled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

The electrics of Zafira’s A55GS motorhome include

 

- Hobby CI-BUS on-board management system with TFT control panel.

 

- Hobby battery management with HELLA battery sensor.

 

- AGM on-board battery, 12V/95Ah

 

- On-board battery-charger 25A.

 

I’ve managed to find on-line a late-2014 Hobby motorhome manual that describes in Section 7 a electrical system that should be similar to that fitted to Zafira’s (more recent) A55GS motorhome.

 

https://www.hobby-caravan.de/fileadmin/user_upload/kataloge_und_service/bedienungsanleitungen/ba-rm-siesta-optima-2015-en.pdf

 

The battery-charger is shown on Page 07-26 and is a Dometic CA-360-OE model. There is not much information about this device on-line (examples here)

 

http://www.justanswer.co.uk/rv-motorhome/8fyh8-hi-hobby-motor-home-fitted-dometic-battery.html

 

http://www.ducatoforum-wohnmobile.de/forum/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=134959

 

and (based purely on the attached photo taken from a current Hobby advert) I think Hobby may now fit a Dometic/Waeco Perfectcharge unit instead.

 

The system described in the 2014 Hobby manual evidently has the ability to show battery voltages and charge/discharge amperages. There also seem to be calibration capabilities.

 

........................................................................................................................................

 

Zafira

 

You have said

 

“...I have no TV so the habitation battery would be used for the fridge & lighting & hot water, potentially heating in addition...”

 

It’s perhaps worth highlighting that a habitation-battery will not (normally) provide power to a motorhome’s 3-way fridge for cooling purposes.

 

When the motorhome is being driven, power to cool the fridge will be provided by the motorhome’s alternator. When the motorhome is on 230V mains hook-up, power to cool the fridge will be provided by the mains hook-up. When the motorhome is not being driven or not on 230V mains hook-up, power to cool the fridge will be provided by gas. There will (normally) be a 12V supply from the habitation-battery to the fridge to power the fridge’s control-electronics, but the power drainage for that will be small.

 

Water will not be heated by using 12V power from the habitation-battery. Either 230V or gas will heat the water, though the habitation-battery will power the heater’s electronics.

 

Air heating will be similar, with the air itself being heated by gas and/or 230V. A Truma Combi 6 combined air/water heater is standard for the A55GS model and the fans fitted to this appliance will be supplied with 12V power from the habitation-battery. These fans can demand a significant amount of 12V power and, if the habitation-battery is in poor condition and unable to hold charge, the battery will very rapidly go ‘flat’.

 

You’d be wise to heed Allan’s warnings above regarding the technical risks involved in operating a motorhome when the habitation-battery is not in good condition.

 

[Robbo]

Zafira, if your charging system is not compatible with that required by the AGM leisure battery, then it's unlikely that the leisure battery will ever be fully charged.

 

The fact that your panel is only showing 14.4v when on EHU indicates that the recommended voltage for AGM, 14.7/14.8v, is not being achieved.

 

It's only in the last couple of years that MH manufacturers have got to grips with the different charging regime required for the AGM battery.

 

My previous Hymer had Gel leisure batteries under the front cab seats. They lasted for 10 years - perhaps I was lucky !!!

 

I installed AGM batteries on my current van but they only lasted a couple of years because of the inappropriate charging regime.

 

So, it looks like your AGM battery has suffered the same demise as mine.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would get the Dealer to replace with either Gel or Varta LFD90 although the latter will need venting.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

The only things known for sure about Zafira’s Hobby A55GS motorhome is that it is based on the current Fiat Ducato X290 chassis and that its habitation-battery is an EXIDE Start-Stop AGM EX950 95Ah.

 

The 12/2014 Hobby (GB) Manual I provided a link to above indicates that the battery-charger used then was a Dometic CA-360-OE unit installed under a cab-seat behind the habitation-battery. There is a photo of the installation on Page 07-23 of the Manual and a photo of the battery-charger on Page 07-26. The latter photo shows a set of dip-switches that I assume are used to select a charging regimen appropriate for the battery-type fitted. The Manual advises "PCB switches. The switches must all be in the top position, i.e. all set to “off””, though it’s clear from the photo that the 2nd switch is in the “on” position. Apparently more comprehensive details of the CA-360-OE charger were provided in a separate Dometic leaflet.

 

There does not seem to be much useful information on-line about the CA-360-OE unit, though this 2015 GOOGLE-translated German motorhome forum entry

 

http://tinyurl.com/lgtzsfg

 

indicates that the charger has the capability to provide a 14.7V output that would be appropriate for AGM batteries.

 

As I’ve said (several times) above, there’s a reasonable chance that Hobby now fits a Dometic/Waeco PerfectCharge unit rather than the CA-360-OE charger, and the PerfectCharge device apparently does have a dedicated AGM-battery charging regimen that outputs 14.8V.

 

I don’t know how straightforward it would be to access Zafira’s motorhome’s battery-charger. In principle it is easy to remove the plastic moulding on the back of a Ducato’s seat-base: in practice, removal may be prevented by the addition of a seat-swivel mechanism. (I can’t easily get the back off my Rapido’s seat-bases.) But as Zafira has been able to identify the habitation-battery it might be possible to do the same for the battery-charger by sliding the seat right forward and looking through the seat-swivel’s centre. I have attached photos of a CA-360 charger and of a PerfectCharge charger and the visual differences should be plain. If Zafira can eastablish which charger her Hobby has, this might help. (Does the literature provided with the motorhome not say?)

 

It’s plain that nobody who has offered advice in this forum discussion has hands-on experience of the electrical system fitted by Hobby to Zafira's motorhome. As a result, assumptions have been made that may be valid or may not.

 

Zafira has freely-admitted having minimal experience of motorhome electrical systems, so it really boils down to how the voltage readings she has quoted should be interpreted. As Allan (aandncaravan) has said a good condition fully-charged AGM battery (with no load being placed on it) should register a charge-state close to 13.0V and that charge-state should not diminish significantly for several weeks. This does not appear to be the case with Zafira’s Exide AGM battery that seems unable to reach full charge and then quickly loses charge.

 

As I see it, Zafira’s choices are to ignore the charging issue and see what happens (Not a good idea!) or simply to tell the dealer that the habitation-battery is not holding charge and that this needs investigating. This would probably involve the dealer having the vehicle for a couple of days so that the battery’s charge-state can be measured.

 

Zafira’s lack of experience means there’s a ‘credibility’ issue here, and I can’t see a motorhome dealership taking much notice of a suggestion by her that the present Exide AGM battery be replaced by a different battery-type. Besides which, Hobby have being fitting Exide AGM batteries for several years and I can find no on-line comments from Hobby owners that these batteries have proved problematical.