plop Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Hi All, My wife and I are just starting to look for our first motorhome/campervan after many years enjoying camping. We have some basic criteria and are looking at various possibles this weekend to help get some more focus but here are some of the key criteria we are working to: Getting a 7m Sprinter into our drive was a bit fiddly as we have tight access with a 90 degree entry point from a not overly wide road - beyond that we have a decently large drive for storage. Therefore we are looking at possibly 6m A Class or 6.4m Van Conversion or Low Profile as we have no option to widen the entry point or road! Like everyone I guess, we want the best and biggest of everything in the given size .... Price range as it's our first we'll go to £55k leaving £5k for alterations, extra kit etc but £45k realistic I think to achieve what we after if not A Class based. We need the ability to tow our various dinghies/catamarans/trimarans - not heavy but a further 6ish meters hanging off the back when we take them. I like the look of the Roller Team T-Line 590 for low profile van conversions as the drop down bed seems to make the rest of it very spacious or the Roller Team Pegaso 590 - we are seeing both tomorrow to help narrow down whether the extra cost of this set up is worthwhile. A decent bed is key as my neck and back are pretty well screwed - ability to keep it made up with the drop downs seems a great idea and space saver. I also like the look of the 6.4m Auto-Sleeper Warwick XL and similar for the normal van conversions - again viewing some tomorrow. Due to sailing/cycling/kayaking interests then storage is definitely a thing for us as we have loads of kit although we have a large storage box on the boat trailers for sailing kit. Therefore payload is a factor although most of it is quite light. A decent kitchen with 2 or 3 hobs and oven would be great A decent fridge again great A decent crapper / shower again great but campsites have great facilities anyway - doubt we will be off grid that much An external gas outlet is good as we like gas bbq's and the pizza oven Need a decent table that can be used for work - def needed as we will need to do some most days while we are away for more than a week unfortunately for a few more years yet. Any comments on gas bottle sizes and accessibility - are most on removable bottles for this size or do any have the ability to refill at LPG fuel stations to a fixed under slung tank? So, if anyone has any thoughts / advice of makes / models to think about it would be greatly appreciated. Once we've got hands on with these initial reviews this weekend I'll update our revised Statement of Requirements! Many thanks in advance for any help that people can offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 plop - 2020-01-10 11:53 AM Getting a 7m Sprinter into our drive was a bit fiddly as we have tight access with a 90 degree entry point from a not overly wide road - beyond that we have a decently large drive for storage. Therefore we are looking at possibly 6m A Class or 6.4m Van Conversion or Low Profile as we have no option to widen the entry point or road! I'm confused, you write as though you have already a 7m Sprinter ? but are thinking of a smaller size, from what you describe as your interests I see you needing a much larger vehicle than 7m. You use the wording Campervan which usually describes a smaller compact vehicle with limited extra space. You need to spend a lot more time deciding what you need a vehicle for and what you want to put in it, everything you take as extra has a weight and will impact on the type and size of vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plop Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Hi, I only hired a 7m Sprinter when moving a load of furniture around last weekend so it would help understand our size limits with our access being a bit rubbish. 6m-6.4m will be fine - towing the catamaran for example means all of the kayak gear and sailing gear goes on that trailer in the storage box so nothing to go in the van / motor home itself. Boats stored at sailing club so we'd wander down, hitch up and wander off. If we are not taking sailing/kayaking gear then bikes will go on the rack at the back no problem or we can drop them in the cab if we wanted to. We won't be able to move our 21ft sea kayak/trimaran I think - although it quite amusingly goes on the roof rack of my Skoda Octavia (hanging over both ends by about 5ft at the back....) I will probably make some smaller kayaks for use with the motor home I think to make it easier to move and store them but we also have some inflatables for easy storage. I take it "camper van" as a term is used for the smaller VW types not for the medium ish we are looking at. At this relatively small 6m size I wasn't sure what to call them - we have used my moms massive Hymer in the USA and Mexico but that is a different world with full slide outs etc. For additional outside space with what we are a looking at we'll get either a pop up gazebo or drive away awning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It sound like you're well organised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 You say that getting a standard width 7 metre long Sprinter into your drive was tight so be aware that most A class and coachbuilts are wider than a standard van. This extra width will make getting in even tighter than the standard width van, even allowing for a slightly shorter length. And most MH's have quite a long rear overhang which may complicate things further. For example our AutoTrail coachbuilt is 2.31 metres (7 feet 7 inches) wide, with the mirrors folded, so true body width. I would suggest taking whatever you are considering buying for a test drive home to see if it will actually fit onto your driveway. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It sounds like you have a similar situation to us, we live on what is effectively a single lane road, with our 6.36m PVC I can get it in without too much fuss, just choose the right point to steer across the road and then it backs in, in one go. As above the increase in width of a CB can make a big differance, have got a 6.8m CB in the drive but it had to be shunted back and forth several times and needed two of us with gf acting as banksman. If you intend towing a lot then a Maxi chassis as used on all the 6.36m PVC's is a good option with it's uprated brakes and better axle loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I had a similar problem with our 7m x 2.3m van coming in at 90 degrees from a small road. I widened the access. If that is possible I would recommend doing just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plop Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Thanks for this - the 1s time I went in with the sprinter it took 3 back and forwards but was ok. 2nd time almost straight in but will always take 1 short reverse. We've got space to turn it around once through so that is useful. Finding turning circle data seems a bit tricky - I can see the Long wheelbase Ducato is 14.28 which I think is the right one while for the Sprinter LWB it is either 14.4 or 15.3 so the Ducato base is certainly no worse. The Sprinter was rear wheel drive to Ducato front wheel drive so a bit surprised at the turning circle data. Rear overhang on the Sprinter is 1.6m apparently (forgot to measure it) and I will measure the various ones tomorrow and see but they appear to be 1.01m on the Ducato. Looking at the Warwick XL it is 2.26 body or 2.508 inc mirrors so marginally wider but 2 ft off the length half of which is wheelbase will make a significant difference I think. The T-Line 590 is 2350 wide as is the Pegaso but it is not clear if that includes mirrors but I assume not and will measure tomorrow. In Summary. The metre less length made up 30cm less wheelbase and 60cm less overhang on the 590's is certainly significant and I hope could make up for the added width. We will be renting several and certainly whichever we choose for at least a long weekend before buying to test this point exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plop Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Widening the access would mean going over neighbours gardens and I'm not convinced they would be overly chipper about it! We do have very odd rear access via a shared drive which we don't currently own but hopefully in the next few years we can buy the drive and paddocks, Even then we will only get a max 10cm extra by taking out the metal gate posts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Keithl - 2020-01-10 3:52 PM You say that getting a standard width 7 metre long Sprinter into your drive was tight so be aware that most A class and coachbuilts are wider than a standard van. This extra width will make getting in even tighter than the standard width van, even allowing for a slightly shorter length. And most MH's have quite a long rear overhang which may complicate things further. For example our AutoTrail coachbuilt is 2.31 metres (7 feet 7 inches) wide, with the mirrors folded, so true body width. I would suggest taking whatever you are considering buying for a test drive home to see if it will actually fit onto your driveway. Keith. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, the Sprinter you hired was probably RWD, and would have had (I suspect even despite its greater length), a tighter turning circle that almost any FWD van is likely to achieve. The most common base for motorhomes is the SEVEL built Ducato/Boxer/Relay, and the van itself is wider then the Sprinter, which it is the No 1 pick for conversion. From what you say, I'd think I might be inclined to hire one and see how you get on. The 6.0 metre can make a reasonable motorhome; below 6.0 metres tend, IMO, to be overly compromised internally. The 6.35 should not make a great difference to manoeuvrability as the wheel base is the same as the 6.0 metre (and so the turning circle) - albeit you may have to watch the rear corners when driving away on full lock. The SEVEL base is 2,070mm wide, plus mirrors. Most (but not all) coachbuilt vans are 2,300mm - 2,350mm wide, so approaching a foot wider in old money. You may be better off prioritising narrower vans, which may make choosing easier - by reducing choice! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgnbuk Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 We have looked at 6 metre A class vans on several occasions & every time came to the conclusion that there was not enough storage for us. The living area & sleeping arrangements are great & the payload substantial, but there just isn't enough room for "stuff". This is a shame, as our Roller Team was a reliable, largely trouble free van (over 4 years use) & I would have liked to have had another. We have two touring modes - motorcycles (2) on a trailer & bicycles (2 x electric) on a towbar mounted carrier. Both have fairly bulky (but not overly heavy) clothing & equipment carrying requirements. We concluded that to carry the kit would require the use of a large Fiamma rear box on a bike rack. We used to use one of these on a 6.7 metre Roller Team T-Line 670 (french bed) as that didn't have sufficient storage space. Users of the Roller Team 590s (either version) do seem to struggle for storage, as most I see on the road have a large Fiamma box on the bike rack. Pilote offered their Pegaso 590 equivalent (G600L IIRC) as a half metre longer version (G650L) with the extra length offering a garage & more wardrobe space for not a lot of extra MIRO. The 650 versions seem to sell better than the 600s - if Pilote dealers had end of year left over models they were always 600s & not 650s. When we were looking to change we found that S/H 650s moved faster from the forecourt & kept their value better than the 600s. In the end, though, their prices rose faster than our ability to make up the difference, so that ended that investigations into going down the A class route. We ended up with a Chausson Welcome 610 (6.7 metre long and 2 off them sequentially actually) - similar layout to the Pilote G650L but as a coachbuilt.. These worked really well for us from a layout point of view, but 2 1/2 years of reliabilty & build quality issues, coupled to a Webasto heating system that was incapable of heating the bathroom (we also use the van off grid, so this was a major issue) gave rise to a change of tack. There are other coachbuilt vans that offer the same layout (Burtsner Ixeo 680 IIRC is one) but they looked challenging from a payload point of view at 3.5T. We ended up choosing an island bed Carado (7 metre T339 Emotion), whaich has great payload, a garage that takes all the kit and has (so far) been issue free, but does not have the same lounging space as the Chausson. For gas, a single Gaslow 11kg refillable worked for us for several years now. Nigel B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charleydog Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 We have a Warwick XL and seem to have the same issue regarding narrow street and 90degree turn. Our previous model was a Chausson 630 at a bit shy of 7mts. backing in the drive was a two-person job but the Warwick goes in front ways o.k,and like you have loads of manoeuvring space, However we do miss the storage of the Chausson, and it seems you will need a lot more than the Warwick can offer. And a towbar is a must. Good to drive and good economy and able to street park is a bonus.fairly small fridge though, and,being a van conversion, narrow at toilet /cooker,but being a van conversion from a good builder,resale value should be good. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plop Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Hi, Thanks everyone for the input. Saw quite a few over the weekend and really liked the Benimar Mileo 202 and the Roller Team T-Line 590 with drop down beds. Makes for much more space. Warwick XL seemed really good but I think we will struggle with space, especially wet stuff from kayaking and biking. Some sort of garage / external storage thingy is probably needed so looking at anything with a drop down bed plus a garage but max 6.5m still I think. I've seen online the Chausson 650 and 634 which appears to tick those boxes at 6.4m with garage, drop downs etc but they might be over the price range. Both have good payloads - I can get over to Premier Motorhomes in Chichester to take a look at these this weekend I hope. The Mileo 202 is Fiat and the Ford based equivalent is the Tessoro 481. The Tessoro has a lower payload it appears but there is a Tessoro 483 which is 6.7m but payload down 455kg which isn't much at all. Are the Ford based ones generally lower payload? Seems a bit of an excessive difference? Does anyone know of any other 6.5m max with drop down beds and half decent payload? Any suggestions gratefully received! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Hi Plop, Are you looking at buying new? If so have a read of this MMM article... https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/news/confusion-over-road-tax-rates-for-new-motorhomes There is also a very long forum thread running on the same subject. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plop Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 New or second hand - whatever works for us. £60k budget - the road tax thing is a pain but if it is the right setup it is worth it. I'm guessing that the market will tank and some manufacturers will have to offer some discounts to make up for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgnbuk Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Take quoted payloads with a large pinch of salt - Chausson in particular. Neither of mine had what the brochure suggested when checked on a weighbridge. From memory the Welcome 610 on the Transit had around 70kg less payload than the Fiat version. OTOH the Transit had 250kg more rear axle load capability - helpful on a layout that has most of the storage at the back. Not sure if the new Adblue Fiats are similarly better payload than the current Transit (which IIRC was modified after I had mine). While the payload figures in Chaussons 2017 & 2018 brochures were rather optimistic, they did highlight the payload difference between the two chassis makes & the current brochure should do the same for the latest models. The Transit was only just useable at 3500kg with minimal water on board, while it's Fiat replacement (otherwise same spec. Welcome 610 - just a year apart) could travel with half a tank of water. If you are seriously considering one I strongly suggest that you have the Webasto heating system demonstrated & check that you are OK with the operating noise & also that there is a reasonable output from all the outlets - particularly the bathroom. Nigel B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper520 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Hello Plop, We're looking for our first Campervan as well. Size is an issue for us in relation to our drive, so a 6m vehicle is our limit. Living off grid most of the time, with a tow bar for a motorcycle trailer (2 bikes) or bicycles for short breaks, is what we're hoping for. We've decided against new due to vehicle tax expense, and used ones usually having a lot of expensive extra's already fitted. Short list includes the Auto Trail Accent and Sunlight 600 / 601 along with a few others. We've looked at a number of vehicles, but been disappointed when we've viewed them. Some people's description of 'Excellent Condition' isn't the same as ours. *-) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plop Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Nigel B, From looking around it does appear that payloads are somewhat "over egged" as you say. That is good info about the Webasto heater - thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plop Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Hi Sapper 520, A small trailer might be the best option when we are not towing the boat. I made one years ago for moving gardening waste that I can just add a lid on for security. 6ft x 4ft and would swallow everything nicely keeping weight out of the van. Bike rack could go above it then no problem. It has been quite surprising how small the storage is on most of the vans/camper homes we've looked at. We normally camp and have a massive tent, bbq and pizza oven, bikes, inflatable kayaks (or long one on the roof), dining table and comfy chairs and loads of other gear and it all piles in our Octavia no problem at all without a trailer - is quite amusing to see something so much bigger that is less usable than first thought. We will def need a decent awning / gazebo to spread out as we are used to having space and these of course take up some decent space. We will try a 6m low profile for access first - Marquis do a £250 non-refundable deposit for a test drive which is worth it I think - we can get it home and try and load it up and see how stuff fits. If that fits easily enough then we could consider something marginally bigger possibly. The point about extras already on is a good one - there is a Mileo 202 at Marquis that has towbar fitted etc already that is a good candidate for this test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plop Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Just booked a Roller Team T-Line 590 for a long weekend early February. Now we just need to find somewhere we can stay! We'll probably just stay in some car parks I think as the campsites will pretty well all be closed until March. Useful to try this though before the NEC show in Feb as will help us really understand what something of this size can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Plop, Answer transferred to Plop's other thread here... https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Any-campsites-open-Februray-in-Devon-Dorset-/54244/#M635477 Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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