Newbie with GSH looking 4 MH with bunks

[Shedifice]

Hi,

 

I am new here, Hi. I am looking to get a second hand MH for adventures and would welcome any advice and ideas.

 

Main requirements.

Fixed bunks (we have 3 kids)

6 berth

at least 5 belted seats.

Ideally fridge and freezer

 

Have been looking around and fond a number of contenders. We want bunks so the kids can get to sleep and me and SWMBO dont have to hang out in the drivers seat till we retire.

 

Could stretch to circa £25k but would like £20kish so looking at 2005 +- 3 or 4 years.

 

We would mainly do UK but when it allows would venture to Norway, Latvia, Spain and France. This means a MH thats happy for long drags.

 

My wife and I are both long enough in the tooth to have C1 licences so not limited to 3500kg as far as I understand.

 

Any ideas most appreciated. Not asking for ad links, just suitable models to look out for.Thanks in advance.

 

Leigh

[Robbo]

Welcome to the forum. Hope you soon recover from the GSH - sounds nasty, haha !!!

 

Think you might struggle to find a van with 3 bunks. The most bunks I've ever seen are 2 bunks at the rear.

 

Depending on the age of the children they might be ok in a large double bed at the rear. A dinette lounge layout would allow 4 belted seats behind the cab (2 × lap + 2 x full diagonal). For the adults, I guess you'd be looking at an over-cab or drop down bed solution.

 

Italian vans tend to be more family orientated, like Roller Team. A few French vans also have bunks.

 

Most kids love camping in a tent. Our son and a friend used an easily erected dome tent when we had a small campervan.

 

Just a few ideas, but only you can decide.

 

[Basil]

Elddis Autoquest 180, six berths. 2011 cost around £25995 would fit the bill.

 

Such as:-

https://www.gumtree.com/p/campervans-motorhomes/elddis-autoquest-prestige-180-6-berth-motorhome/1371289969

 

Basil

[Shedifice]

Hi, Thanks for the replies. I have only seen 2 bunks so yup, not expecting or looking for a 3 bunk.

 

1 sprog could go to sleep in the over cab bed whilst we open the shiraz!

 

L.

[Keithl]

If the youngest is small enough you could fit a 'Cabbunk' and gain a third child bed at minimal cost. But do make sure you still have enough belted travel seats.

 

https://www.cabbunk.co.uk/

 

Keith.

[Shedifice]

Thanks, the cabbunk looks interesting.

 

L.

[Will86]

Conrad,

 

Assuming I'm well past your longest tooth I don't understand abbreviations ... so kindly explain why you refer to your female partner as a SWMBO are you suggesting its short for DIMBO, I'm just as vacant with GSH, at first I thought is was CASH is it some award ?

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Will86 - 2020-05-12 6:40 PM

 

Conrad,

 

Assuming I'm well past your longest tooth I don't understand abbreviations ... so kindly explain why you refer to your lady wife as a SWMBO are you suggesting its short for DIMBO ?

Mrs Rumpole of the Bailey. She Who Must Be Obeyed.

[Will86]

Thank Brian, what a terrible life for those who admit to female power. Some years ago I upset many when I said that I controlled everything about our M/H, I paid for it, did all the maintenance and food preparation, made all the travel arrangements and cleaned it inside and out.

[Brian Kirby]

Shedifice - 2020-05-11 7:30 PM.......................My wife and I are both long enough in the tooth to have C1 licences so not limited to 3500kg as far as I understand. ……………….Leigh

From the above. I assume your children are not toddlers and, in any case, will grow and become heavier! You are looking for a longish van, which will be correspondingly heavy. Children = clutter = weight. :-)

 

You will therefore need a substantial payload allowance and, I would say, you should look only at vans on the heavy, or maxi, chassis. Do not be persuaded that any van that was originally sold with an MAM of 3,500kg, whatever its VIN plate may now declare MAM to be, will be suitable. You need axle load limits in excess of those a re-plated "light" chassis base vehicle can deliver. If the above is unclear please ask more.

 

There are several large vans that would probably have suitable layouts that might fit your budget, but starting off with an inadequate payload will only result in stress and expense, and ultimately an unsatisfactory bodge.

 

Most of these vans are of Italian build, and were aimed mainly at the Italian hire market - although sold in RHD form in UK. They were limited to an MAM of 3,500KG because that is what the average hirer's driving licence permits them to drive. Problem is, finding one on the appropriate chassis is likely to be difficult.

 

I'd suggest you investigate this topic carefully, to get a clear idea of what you will need, before you spend too much time looking at vans.

[Conrad]

Can't recommend a specific model, although our Chausson Flash 646 could fit your needs. But if you plan to put a child in the over-cab bed, just check the length of the bed in dinette is long enough for you and your wife. Ours is on the modest size, I'm 5' 8" and fit, but taller people struggle. Some are actually described as being only big enough for children. Also the over-cab bed in ours is king size and with an extra mattress memory foam topper is very comfortable. No dinette bed could come anywhere close, and it'll be a faff to put together after your bottle of shiraz! Keith's cab bunk could well be your answer.

[Derek Uzzell]

Will86 - 2020-05-12 6:40 PM

 

Conrad,

 

Assuming I'm well past your longest tooth I don't understand abbreviations ... so kindly explain why you refer to your female partner as a SWMBO are you suggesting its short for DIMBO, I'm just as vacant with GSH, at first I thought is was CASH is it some award ?

 

 

This link MAY help you with acronyms in future

 

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/

 

but you’d still need to choose the most likely definition.

 

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/swmbo

 

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/gsh

 

https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/bbw

[Will86]

Apologies folks I just don't get them, remember I was born in the 1920's when people and children were normal

[Keithl]

Will86 - 2020-05-13 9:55 AM

 

Apologies folks I just don't get them, remember I was born in the 1920's when people and children were normal

 

But I bet you know what OAP means :D :D :D

 

Keith.

[Will86]

Old Aged & Pedantic

 

 

[Keithl]

Will86 - 2020-05-13 12:56 PM

 

Old Aged & Pedantic

 

 

:-) :-) :-)

[Shedifice]

Hi all,

 

GSH - Good Sense of Humour. Sure that was in use in the lonely hearts column in the 1940s!

 

We would only put child 3 to bed in the over cab to start and turf them out to the cheap seats when we go to bed. our kids are 9 11 and 13 but not particularly big.

 

Is there a good idiots guide to the weights issue, Whilst being reasonably technical I am not fully understanding it. is 3500kg the max total on a post 97 licence?

 

L.

 

 

[Shedifice]

Brian,

 

Am I right in thinking that if its originally a MAM of 3500 then it is a light chassis?

 

Thanks for the assistance.

 

L.

[Robbo]

A 6 berth van built on a 3500kg chassis will possibly have only enough payload for 2 adults + 3 kids BUT nothing else (ie. food, water, clothes etc).

 

You both have a C1 licence so are able to drive vehicles up to 7500kg. Most vans from about 2006 were available on the heavy chassis, rated at 4250kg. Prior to that date, 3900kg was more common.

 

Your kids probably weigh 110kg combined, currently.....but in 3 years time 150kg. Add 2 adults @ 75kg each and total is 300kg. Most large vans in the 3500kg category only have a spare payload capacity of 300kg.

 

If you want to future-proof your investment you really need to be looking at vans with a chassis rated at 4250kg or above.

[Brian Kirby]

Shedifice - 2020-05-13 6:25 PM

Brian,

Am I right in thinking that if its originally a MAM of 3500 then it is a light chassis?

Thanks for the assistance.

L.

Probably, but not necessarily. Motorhomes are vehicles that are finished in stages, and the first stage is completed by the likes of Fiat, who manufacture the base vehicles. When whatever form of base vehicle leaves the manufacturer's factory it will be given a VIN plate on which will be stated the maximum permissible load on each axle, the maximum allowable mass (MAM) for the whole chassis, and the maximum permissible gross train weight (GTW - the actual mass of the fully laden vehicle, plus the actual mass of any trailer towed).

 

The permissible axle loads are a function of the mechanical design of the running gear (including the load bearing capacity of the specified tyres). The plated limit for each axle is a legal limit, which it is an offence to exceed.

 

The MAM is the heaviest weight at which it is legal to drive the vehicle. This is an all-up figure and includes everything in the vehicle, whether fixed or not, including driver, passengers, pets, whatever, that is actually being transported in the vehicle - no exceptions! :-) These are primarily safety limits designed to ensure that even when loaded to the maximum, there is an adequate factor of safety on the mechanical components and the chassis itself to cater for extreme conditions.

 

The GTW is also a legal limit, but has to do with the ability of the vehicle plus any trailer to drive away on a specified test hill. It is concerned with eliminating traffic obstructions caused by vehicles failing on steep hills.

 

When the chassis moves on to the converter's factory he can, with the agreement of the base vehicle manufacturer, "play" somewhat with these limits. So, when the conversion is completed the converter will attach a separate VIN plate, bearing their own company name, that may vary the MAM and the GTW. They may, for example, increase the MAM somewhat, leaving the axle limits unchanged, but reducing the GTW by a similar amount. Alternatively, if the design of the conversion involves a long rear overhang in which a significant allocation for storage is provided, they may specify a base vehicle on the heavier chassis, so that the axle loads (especially the rear axle) are increased, but plate down the MAM to 3,500kg to permit the vehicle to be driven by those who have the normal car driving licence. The converter's plate (the finisher) is the legally applicable load definition for the vehicle.

 

So, it is possible that a 3,500kg motorhome may be sitting on a heavy chassis where the converter's design is one that would concentrate the user's payload to the rear, and particularly into the overhang. The problem then, is that in so doing, although the rear axle may not itself become overloaded, the working payload may nevertheless prove inadequate for normal use.

 

You will probably have noted that the MAM is less than the sum of the two individual axle maxima. This is to allow for the fact that vehicle loads vary both in location and mass. You may find vans for sale where the MAM is higher than 3,500kg, but is, or is very close to, the sum of the two axle maxima. Be very cautious! This is almost invariably a sign that the van as originally sold had an inadequate MAM and has been re-plated to a higher MAM. This can be achieved by specialist auto-engineers, but in many cases does not increase either axle load so that, if the original problem was inadequate rear axle load, the full increase in MAM will not be realisable before the rear axle hits its maximum. In some cases the rear suspension may have been strengthened, almost invariably involving changing the rear tyres to ones with a higher load rating, but the brakes will still be those suited to the original loads. It is legal - but I wouldn't want to drive one so adapted down a few of the Alpine passes I've descended!! :-D

 

You are looking for a longish vehicle because you want a 5 bed motorhome and, as such, it is probable that your van will have a longish rear overhang. It will, therefore, be more prone to rear axle overload than a vehicle with a shorter rear overhang. This is because, in terms of balance, motorhomes are a bit like a see-saw, with the rear axle as the fulcrum. Any load placed behind the rear axle thus adds more than its self-weight to rear axle load, and deducts the difference from front axle load. The longer the rear overhang, and the greater the load that is placed within the overhang, the greater the transfer of load from front to rear. If you get a van with an over-cab bed (a "Luton" body), plus a substantial rear overhang, this can combine to leave the vehicle difficult to keep on track on windy days. Big "sail" area at the front catching the wind, plus relatively low front axle load, means the vehicle gets blown off-line relatively easily - which can get distinctly "interesting"!

 

It is all something of a minefield, so I'm going to make a suggestion. :-) Follow this link and buy this book: https://tinyurl.com/y7m72h72 Vicarious Books is an independent publisher, owned by two motorhoming nuts, based in Folkestone (I have no connection with them) and the book is "Go Motorhoming and Campervanning".

 

It will answer many questions you haven't yet realised you need to ask, and it includes a really helpful and informative section on payload that should get you up to speed. I notice that it is even on discount at present! Then, read your way through it before you spend too much time looking around at vans!

 

That way, I honestly think you will be more likely to get the sort of van that will suit you functionally, and that that you can load and drive with peace of mind, at far lower overall cost than any amount of "discovery learning" from buying vans that don't work for you. It isn't the fount of all knowledge, but it will give you an excellent grounding in the essentials, and probably a bit more as well. Good luck.

[Shedifice]

Many thanks for the added info. I'll read more and continue looking.

 

L.