stevec176 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 I've had my Rapido since new in 2016 and it has a Thetford N3000-E series Model B Fridge/Freezer which keeps defrosting irrespective of whether it's on EHU or battery. It works fine for a couple of days and then when I go to get something from the freezer I find the food is defrosting and water is running down the veins at the back of the fridge. When this happens I usually put it onto gas and it appears to improve the problem and then later I can turn it back to electric and it's fine for a while. My wife has told me on several occassions it wasn't working proberly due to stuff in the fridge either freezing or getting wet, should have listened better. Has anyone had this problem before and how was it resolved pleased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 There's a three year warranty on Thetford fridges I believe. Check your documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Had a similar problem with our domestic fridge freezer. The control board had to be replaced. The sensors were OK, but the board had lost the plot ! Sounds like a warranty job. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 I have contacted the dealer to inform them about the problem but as they've had it before and all I got from them was "it worked when we turned it on", I'm trying to get something to offer them if they come back with the same answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 stevec176 - 2018-06-24 8:57 PM I've had my Rapido since new in 2016 and it has a Thetford N3000-E series Model B Fridge/Freezer which keeps defrosting irrespective of whether it's on EHU or battery. It works fine for a couple of days and then when I go to get something from the freezer I find the food is defrosting and water is running down the veins at the back of the fridge. When this happens I usually put it onto gas and it appears to improve the problem and then later I can turn it back to electric and it's fine for a while. My wife has told me on several occassions it wasn't working proberly due to stuff in the fridge either freezing or getting wet, should have listened better. Has anyone had this problem before and how was it resolved pleased? Can you please clarify? You refer to a fridge/freezer. This is normally a larder fridge with a separate freezer compartment above it: that is to say both fridge and freezer have separate doors, with both being openable without first having to open the other. With this design there is no route by which defrost water could run into the fridge space. What you appear to have is a fridge, with a large freezer compartment housed within the fridge itself, in which it would be necessary to open the fridge door to access the freezer compartment. It might help if you quote the actual model. However, if you consider the dealer incompetent, I would suggest contacting Thetford UK direct, and describing the behaviour of your fridge to them (for this you will undoubtedly need to quote its model, and serial, numbers. I have found them to be very helpful in the past and, if the unit is still within warranty, very prompt in dealing with repairs. It is clearly faulting, but what you describe is odd, and there are three separate heat sources that drive the refrigeration process, one for gas, one for mains, and one for 12V. All are controlled by the same thermostat, which it seems is working properly as the fridge apparently performs correctly on gas. That it does not perform correctly on either 12V or mains, suggests that the fault is unlikely to be with both electric elements, leaving only the main control system, or possibly a wiring fault, as the likely explanations. I'm assuming this is not an AES model, and that you are selecting the energy source manually? But are you, by any chance, leaving the model switched to use 12V (which is only available when the engine is running) while on EHU, so that the fridge is effectively getting on energy input at all? I'm just puzzled as to how you know that it isn't working on 12V, because it usually takes several hours for frozen food to defrost in a fridge to the extent you describe, and it would be relatively unusual for motorhomers to undertake journeys of such extended length in one hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 You mention running the fridge on "battery", and as Bill has pointed out the fridge does not draw main power from the habitation battery in normal circumstances. Your statement makes me also ask the question, as to whether you are using the fridge correctly? If parked and not on EHU, the only available energy source is LPG. The frdge requires a second low current control supply which will come from the habitation battery when the engine is not running, you are not on EHU, and the fridge is switched to any of the three energy sources. A bad connection in the control supply circuit (in which I include the separate negative connection), such as a poorly installed crimp terminal, or a loose terminal screw could conceivably give rise to your symptoms. This possible fault would cause the indicator LEDs to be out although the fridge was switched to an energy source. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 If it’s dropping out on EHU after appearing OK for a couple of days then this could possibly be due to low voltage. Try measuring the supply voltage using a simple plug in energy monitoring device like an ‘Energenie’ Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 What I have is a larder fridge, seperate fridge and freezer compartments. The water comes from the cooling plate in the back of the fridge. This plate also freezes so I think the water that runs off it is possibly when it does an auto defrost but it doesn't seem to know when to stop because after a while items in the freezer compartment start to defrost. I said battery because that is what is show on the fridge control panel. I usually have it set on auto power selection so when I'm driving it runs on 12v and when I'm stopped it trips onto gas and when I plug in the EHU it runs on 240v. I manually select gas if I want it to cool quicker. Last year I went to Spain via Santander so the fridge was without power for over 24hrs and it was still cold and stuff still frozen when we got to our first stop so an 8 hour ferry trip shouldn't have been a problem. The main question is why would it defrost and on different sites so possibly different voltages both in the UK and France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Steve, Fridge's use very little gas so why not use 12 volts when driving and manually switch to gas when you stop. If this cures your problem then I would put my money on low voltage. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Thats an option Keith but I'd rather having it work as it should. I'm still waiting to hear from Simpsons who are, according to Thetford, specialists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Steve, I think that Keith was suggesting running on gas, as a test rater than a long term solution. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 stevec176 - 2018-06-25 4:36 PM What I have is a larder fridge, seperate fridge and freezer compartments. The water comes from the cooling plate in the back of the fridge. This plate also freezes so I think the water that runs off it is possibly when it does an auto defrost but it doesn't seem to know when to stop because after a while items in the freezer compartment start to defrost. I said battery because that is what is show on the fridge control panel. I usually have it set on auto power selection so when I'm driving it runs on 12v and when I'm stopped it trips onto gas and when I plug in the EHU it runs on 240v. I manually select gas if I want it to cool quicker. Last year I went to Spain via Santander so the fridge was without power for over 24hrs and it was still cold and stuff still frozen when we got to our first stop so an 8 hour ferry trip shouldn't have been a problem. The main question is why would it defrost and on different sites so possibly different voltages both in the UK and France. OK - you have an AES Thetford fridge with a large freezer compartment. I still suggest that you speak to Thetford direct, quoting the model, and serial, numbers of the fridge, and explaining as exactly as you can what is happening. I confess I remain a little confused as to what is actually happening, as you have said that it fails to maintain the correct temperature on both mains and 12V, but have also referred to it freezing items in the fridge compartment - which points to it working too well! You have also said that it seems to begin defrosting, but then fails to resume cooling, leading to items in the freezer compartment defrosting. But you have also said that it broadly retained its temperature during an 8 hour ferry crossing with no energy input, which seems to imply that it is failing to cool on mains/12V over very long periods - I would surmise in excess of 8 hours - although ambient temperatures would affect the time to defrost as you describe. So, I would suggest that you try to rationalise these various behaviours as far as possible before talking to Thetford, so that you paint the most helpfully revealing picture possible for them. In the meantime, it seems to me as though your fridge may not be operating on mains at all, so that what looks like satisfactory performance after you have run its temperature down on gas, is merely the time it takes the fridge to warm back up in the absence of any cooling input. It is worth noting that most of these types of fridge do no more than maintain their starting temperature when on 12V, and that very few use thermostatic control in this mode, merely continually running the 12V heating element for as long as the engine is running. Whatever the cause, what you describe is a potential health threat, as the persistent fluctuations in temperature you describe will, sooner or later, allow harmful bacteria to breed, giving someone a nasty dose of food poisoning! Personally, I'd get hold of Thetford technical soonest. Try this number: 01709 766750, but be prepared for a wait, as from past experience he seems to be a one man band! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 My 2015 Rapido also has a Thetford N3000 fridge-freezer. There is an automatic defrost system to prevent ice forming on the fins of the cooling unit (‘plate’) within the fridge part of the appliance. I just leave my fridge on automatic and I’ve not noticed ice forming on the cooling unit’s fins, nor does water run off the fins, nor do items in the (separate) freezer compartment start to defrost. It’s possible that the cooling level is set too high, causing ice to form on the cooling fins. But, otherwise, it sounds like something is wrong and needs attention. There’s a 3-year warranty and the present behaviour needs investigating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 Thanks Brian & Derek for your advice. I'm also confused with whats happening. I've emailed Thetford and I'm waiting to hear from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Just returned from Spain where we were experiencing a similar problem so read the instruction manual. The advice was to turn off the heating element by the separate switch on the control panel on the front of the fridge, this is even more important is the mains electric supply is low ( as are most sites in Spain and France) Having done that the fridge/freezer started working normally again. Whilst on the subject of Thetford fridge/freezers I have noticed that when on gas the burner does nor turn off very often.(unlike a previous dometic fridge/freezer) This has been checked at service and I am told its normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 Thanks for that Rod, by heating element I assume you mean the anti-condensation? I've just connected my system to my EHU at home and I'm going to monitor the temps over the next few day. I've heard back from Thetford and they too are blaming the voltage, see how it goes at home. What coldness setting did you have yours set at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Steve, Ours is normally run on level 3. It was turned up to 4 when we had the problem. All works ok on 16amp in the uk but struggles on 6amp or 10amp in Europe. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 Rod, We actually ended up on 5 trying to stop the defrosting but that didnt work either. We've also had similar problems in the UK when I couldn't get the van perfectly level, got it to within 3° fore/aft and 2° side to side but still defrosted. The van is now level, got thermometers in both compartments and I'm checking and recording the temps about every 2hrs to see how it goes. Report back later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I’m in France (Loir Valley) and it’s HOT... I’ve been staying mostly on sites with mains electricity hook-ups (EHUs) and am currently on a Camping-Car Park site said to have 6Amp EHUs. My Rapido’s Thetford fridge-freezer is currently operating on a 4-blobs cooling level setting and the control-panel ‘anti-fog’ setting is turned On (which is what it normally should be). There’s a touch of ice on the fridge’s cooling unit, but nothing significant. I would have thought that the amperage of an EHU should not matter, but the EHU’s voltage could well have an impact on performance. So, if an EHU’s voltage were (say) 200V rather tha 230V, it might be anticipated that cooling performance could be reduced. Anyway, since mid-2015 I’ve not been overly fussy about levelling the Rapido (to encourage the fridge to function more efficiently) and I’ve never been concerned about EHU voltage or amperage. And I’ve not (yet) experienced the ‘defrosting’ issue mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Our last van had an Thetford AES fridge-freezer. We once experienced low voltages on a camp site, apparently due to thunderstorms in the general area. The effect was that the fridge kept switching to gas, and then back to mains when the voltage recovered, and so on. I eventually manually switched to gas to stop the AES short cycling. The fridge (and freezer) temperatures did not fluctuate noticeably as a result. Oddly, I never saw it defrosting, and it would build up a block of ice on the cooling fins in the fridge. However, it continued working reliably even so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-06-28 7:46 AM ........................ I would have thought that the amperage of an EHU should not matter, but the EHU’s voltage could well have an impact on performance. So, if an EHU’s voltage were (say) 200V rather tha 230V, it might be anticipated that cooling performance could be reduced. Anyway, since mid-2015 I’ve not been overly fussy about levelling the Rapido (to encourage the fridge to function more efficiently) and I’ve never been concerned about EHU voltage or amperage. And I’ve not (yet) experienced the ‘defrosting’ issue mentioned above. Derek, You are correct in your assertion about the current rating of an EHU, but lower ratings are indicative of thinner on site cabling and hence worse regulation (more voltage drop for the same load). You are also correct about the effect of low voltage. MH fridge elements typically rated at 135W 230V, will only consume about 102W at 200V. As you say we could anticipate that some effect on the cooling performance would be expected with this approximate 25% drop in input. We use an MMM free gift spirit level for rough levelling (between the spirit level lines), but this is more to stop the plates sliding of the table and comfort in bed, than fridge perfprmance. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 The manual states that the Thetford has to be within 3° in both directions and I've found that with mine if I am outside those limits it doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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