breakaleg Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Hi Everyone, After filling up with water today the cap wouldn't locate and could not be locked on. I presumed it was the cap although I couldn't see anything wrong with it, the local caravan shop let me try a new cap but this was the same so I am presuming that it must be the hole (female) part that has broke (still can't see anything wrong with it.) The question is: does anyone know what is required when replacing one? I think that there are three screws under what looks like rubber bungs. I would like to know what to expect . Thanks in advance. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Can you post a pic, Pete? May help someone to recognise the type. Ideally, you need a like for like, so that the screws are in the same locations, so no new holes to make - and no old ones to fill in! Silly question, but have you contacted Elddis for advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 I'm not familiar with your filler but if it was me I’d be uncomfortable with going to the effort of replacing the filler without first identifying the cause of the problem. It seems strange that the mechanism was working fine, the cap was taken off (presumably without any issue?) and then on refitting it wouldn’t locate. If there is no external sign of damage then I think I’d check the inside of the van where the filler pipe enters the van. If a crack has developed it may effect alignment perhaps. If that drew a blank then if there’s no obstruction of the location points I’d spray liberally with silicon spray and try and to fit the cap again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 On my filler point the "female" part onto which the cap locates - the piece I am pointing to, comes off. It seems to be a simple push fit onto the housing. Obviously if that is not there then the cap cannot fit back on. (I found this out when removing an extension 90 degree filler I had made so we can top up water using a container. When I pulled it out, the whole lot came off!) Worth checking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Having looked at mine I can’t see how the bit the cap locks on can be detachable. Removing the 3 external screws won’t allow the filler unit to be removed unless the jubilee clip on the internal hose is released. Then the filler unit unit as a whole can be renewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 My water filler is the same as the one in the picture above. If yours is also the same then I can confirm that the inner does pull out – it is just a friction fit that sits inside the tube that is jubilee’d inside your van. The only occasion I’ve had to remove it is due to a lost key. Gripping the filler cap with mole grips and giving a pull opens everything up. A useful feature. If the lugs on your cap are not even reaching the cut-outs on the assembly so that the cap can engage then something odd is going on. Are you certain that this is the case? Incidentally, I have removed and reinstalled my filler assembly. The key thing to remember is to apply mastic between the external mating surfaces of the assembly and the van body to prevent water ingress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 breakaleg There is a wide variety of inlets for filling a leisure-vehicle's fresh-water tank. Zadi-brand inlets are commonplace (image attached) but the colour and design can still differ. I wasn’t aware that the section of an inlet on to which the cap fits could be detached, and it seems an odd arrangement to me rather than to have it as an integated part of the inlet. My Rapido’s fresh-water inlet (whoever makes it) certainly seems to be one-piece. When the filler-cap won’t fit/lock, it is (as you thought) usually down to a problem with the cap itself rather than with the inlet. As the caps themselves vary design-wise, it’s possible that the new cap the local caravan shop let you experiment with wouldn’t fit simply because it was the ‘wrong’ cap. First recheck the cap carefully to see if you can identify the cause of the problem, If there’s nothing obvious, then do as BruceM has suggested and give its moving parts a good spraying with a silicone lubricant. (When new, the filler-cap of my 2005 Hobby motorhome failed to seal properly, resulting in the motorhome’s fresh-water tank emptying itself when the vehicle was being driven. I dismantled the cap, sprayed all the parts with silicone lubricant and reassembled the cap. That cured the fault...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 At some point or other, I think the freshwater filler caps on all three of the *vans had played up and wouldn't "lock".. (*one of which was a 2007 Compass 120) I tried various "quick-fixes" - squirting the lock with silicon spray, soaking the cap in warm soapy water- sometimes that'd help,and other times it wouldn't and a new cap was required (and as a new cap usually fixed ours, i never bothered suspecting the female housing?) However, what I did find strange with ours, was that if/when the new cap started playing up, and I re-tried an old one(which I'd kept as a spare), that old supposedly duff one, would sometimes work again?... Although our caps may have varied in outward design, I'm pretty sure(he says?) that our fillers have been one-piece, similar to Derek posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share Posted July 13, 2020 Thanks All, I will try to post a picture. There are two sizes advertised one 40 mm and the other 72 mm both look the same, The one i tried yesterday was 40mm it fit the aperture but wouldn't locate. I will try the silicon spray but looking into the aperture there is no visible sign of anything it could locate onto , there is a watermark line that is like a perfect half circle at the bottom end, I am beginning to wonder if I pulled something off when I removed the cap but if I have I didn't see anything fall away. I haven't been in touch with Elddis but they would probably refer me to my dealer anyway, (I don't think Elddis wish to engage their customers)lol Should it need to be undone form the inside I would have to get someone in to do it as I have mobility problems in as much I can't kneel down. Thank you all. PeteUntitled 2.odt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 breakaleg - 2020-07-13 10:57 AM I will try the silicon spray but looking into the aperture there is no visible sign of anything it could locate onto , there is a watermark line that is like a perfect half circle at the bottom end, I am beginning to wonder if I pulled something off when I removed the cap but if I have I didn't see anything fall away. Pete Hmmm – if there are no locating slots inside the female part of the housing I’d suggest that you take a careful look at the male cap just in case the location slot mechanism does slide out and is still attached to the cap. It’s a long shot worth crossing off the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 breakaleg - 2020-07-13 10:57 AM Thanks All, I will try to post a picture. There are two sizes advertised one 40 mm and the other 72 mm both look the same, The one i tried yesterday was 40mm it fit the aperture but wouldn't locate... Pete I’m not sure what method you’ve used to obtain the photo that has ended up as a .odt file (?) but I’ve managed to view it (not straightforward with an Apple Mac) and it just seems to be a copy of an advert rather than of your Elddis’s water-filler inlet. A 40mm inlet would very much be the norm, with the 40mm dimension indicating the diameter of the hose that attaches to the rear of the inlet. An example is here http://www.watertankswarehouse.co.uk/ourshop/prod_3776298-F23SHORT-40mm-White-Water-Filler-Locking-Cap-ZADI.html I’m unsure about your 72mm reference. This would mean either that the water-hose was hellish wide, or indicates that a 72mm diameter hole needs to be cut in the motorhome’s bodywork to install the water-filler inlet. Or (perhaps more likely) the 72mm figure relates to the cap’s diameter. (This might explain why the 40mm and 72mm parts you’ve seen look the same - it’s because they are the same...) I suggest you assume your inlet is the 40mm variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 breakaleg - 2020-07-13 10:57 AM Thanks All, The one i tried yesterday was 40mm it fit the aperture but wouldn't locate. I will try the silicon spray but looking into the aperture there is no visible sign of anything it could locate onto , there is a watermark line that is like a perfect half circle at the bottom end, I am beginning to wonder if I pulled something off when I removed the cap but if I have I didn't see anything fall away. Thank you all. Pete Pete when you look at the filler inlet, does it have the notches that I have arrowed in the picture here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 Hi, been out and taken some photos. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Don’t forget that any file (whatever its type) to be attached to a posting needs to be no larger than 100kb in size. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Posting-Photos-/37941/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 Hi Derek, Yes that has been the problem resizing them. But since looking inside the van to see where the pipe comes in I have decided that accessing the head of the pipe to release it from the filler wouldn't be possible for me, so I have contacted a mobile motorhome service agent and sent him some photos and agrees that something is missing on the female part. So he is ordering the required parts and will be with me in around a fortnight (earliest date available) it's frustrating really as access is quite good but I just can't get down there to do it. Thanks everyone for your advise. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Pete I’ve just sent you a PM that should appear in your forum Inbox. The PM includes my email address and, if you email me the photos you sent to the mobile service agent, I can put them on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Pete sent me the three photos that I have attached below Photo 1 shows the exterior of the water-filler with its cap in place. Photo 2 shows the underside of the cap when the cap has been placed back-to-front in the filler’s mouth. Photo 3 shows the interior of the filler with the cap removed. The product advertised here https://tinyurl.com/yd8doxly closely resembles Pete’s Elddis’s filler. One of the advert's photos (advert.jpg attached below) clearly indicates that - as the mobile service agent told Pete - part of the centre of Pete’s filler is missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-07-15 9:23 AM Pete sent me the three photos that I have attached below Photo 1 shows the exterior of the water-filler with its cap in place. Photo 2 shows the underside of the cap when the cap has been placed back-to-front in the filler’s mouth. Photo 3 shows the interior of the filler with the cap removed. The product advertised here https://tinyurl.com/yd8doxly closely resembles Pete’s Elddis’s filler. One of the advert's photos (advert.jpg attached below) clearly indicates that - as the mobile service agent told Pete - part of the centre of Pete’s filler is missing. Yup that's what I was saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Great photos. The filler is the same as mine and as suspected the missing component is the piece that may be pulled off (friction fit). An easy fix that will save a lot of work when the new part arrives might be to pull the missing component off the new part and insert it into the old part. If doing this I’d suggest putting a little Thread-Lock on the mating surfaces of the component before fitting to ensure it doesn’t pull off again. I did this when the same component on my filler became a little loose and it now holds perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I must say that I’m surprised the inner piece pulls out,doesn’t seem to on mine. What would be the point of a locking cap if the cap and inner piece just pulls off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I've attached below two photos of my Rapido motorhome’s water-filler, with the 1st image showing the filler with the cap in place and the 2nd image with the cap removed. There’s nothing apparent on the Rapido’s flller or cap to indicate its manufacturer but, having taken a very close look at the filler, it’s evident that I was wrong believing that the filler is one-piece. The part arrowed in red in the 2nd image appears to push inside a female ’stub’ moulded into the filler’s main plastic body. Obviously, after the completion of the filler’s manufacture, this part should not turn (or the filler-cap could not then be tightened or undone) nor should it be possible to detach the part from the filler’s main body using brute force. I don’t know what holds the red-arrowed part to the ‘stub’ on my Rapido’s filler, but if it is just friction (as BruceM mentioned above) it’s very good friction as the part feels immovable in my Rapido’s case. As it’s not obvious that the red-arrowed part is separate from the main body of my Rapido’s filler, it’s not difficult to assume that the filler is one-piece. The likelihood, though, is that all fillers of this type are ‘two piece’ and will potentially be vulnerable to the two pieces becoming separated. (We live and learn... ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 Dear All, Thank you for all your help, the part with the notches was the part that was missing, thanks to all who pointed that out. Thanks Derek for posting my pictures. When I looked at mine and then the others I realised what exactly was missing, then I had a lightbulb moment, I use a fitting where you can replace the cap with a hosepipe holder to save me having to hold a pipe in the hole (best £10.00 I have ever spent on the van .lol However, I looked at it today and the missing part was still attached to it. It just pushed back into place, handy to know if the key should break or lock seize, just give it a good tug. I managed to cancel the Mobile engineer and although he has ordered the replacement he says that he will put it into stock as it is a common part and will be used in future. You have probably saved me about £130.00 for the replacement and fitting. Many thanks Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Sorry Pete, but that did make I larf! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 That has got to be the best result to a motorhome problem I’ve seen yet. Money saved, item properly repaired and we all end up smiling. If you find it keeps coming off when you don’t want it to use the Thread-Lock trick I mentioned – available in all good motor factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 And the moral of this story is whenever something goes wrong ask yourself 'what was the last thing I did?' and invariably this will lead to the answer! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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