StuartO Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 The pros and cons of starting your engine periodically even if you can’t go for a drive have been covered before and accepted wisdom seems to be that if your MH has a Particulate Filter fitted to the exhaust, you will clog it up by running the engine while stationary, so don’t do it. But older MHs don’t have these (my 2006 Euro 3 2.8 JTD doesn’t) so the pros and cons aren’t the same. I have run the engine in the past during storage and I learned that getting up to running temperature took a full 30 minutes of running mostly at idling speed. But in normal, non-storage situations best practice for diesels is said to be to warm up under load, i. e. while pulling fairly hard and certainly not at tickover or driving slowly. This is what I normally do and the engine gets up to temperature in less than 10 minutes. My MH hasn’t turned a wheel since November and I’m worried that the cambelt has been sitting in the same position on its pulleys and rollers all that time as well as the metal parts of the engine being stationary all that time. My MH is SORNed and the MOT has run out, so at best I can only drive to the MOT station and my usual one is less than half a mile away - so to give her a proper run I’d have to make an MOT appointment somewhere further away, in another town. On balance I’m thinking that running the engine while stationary (for over 30 min) is not a bad option; I live in a small private Close so I could also drive around slowly to turn the wheels. What say you clever engineer types? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2GB Racing Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 It's an engine all internals will have an oil coating from your last running time last November it could stand for years with no internal issues, re the cam belt after sitting for a few years then maybe slight fear but not for a few months. Leave as is too many people paranoid over what is detiorating on their pride and joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 StuartO - 2020-05-04 6:45 PM ...What say you clever engineer types? Please yourself... I’m not regularly starting my 2015 Rapido motorhome’s engine to run it long enough to get it hot (idling or revving the engine!) but I would have been following the same ‘non-heating’ regimen if I still owned my 1996-built Herald. Both motorhomes have a timing-belt and - as 2GB Racing says - (and provided that the belt was in good condition when the motorhome was taken out of use) there’s no compelling reason to believe the belt would degrade if the vehicle stands idle for a few months. After its usual 5 months winter period of inactivity parked outside my house, my Rapido motorhom was serviced and MOT-tested on 13 April 2020 and this involved a 35 mile round trip when all the vehicle’s ‘mechanicals’ would have reached full operating temperature. So, at the moment, the Rapido has clean engine oil, rust was rubbed off the brake disks during the MOT-test trip, I’ve inflated all the tyres to 80psi and I’m charging the starter and leisure batteries fortnightly. Obviously If I need to move the Rapido I need to start its engine, but I leave the motor running only long enough to complete the manoeuvre. My Herald motorhome (owned 1998-2004), my Hobby motorhome (owned 2005-2014 - and with timing-chain powerplant) were both static over the the winter parked outside my house and I treated both similarly to how I treat the Rapido. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 It was simpler in the old days, with petrol engines, when you could turn them over on the starter motor to move the timing belts and circulate the oil without firing up, by turning off the fuel supply and/or the power supply to the coil. I don't know of an easy way to do that with a 2.8 JTD diesel. As I understand it starting up briefly just to move the vehicle a little bit risks condensation forming in the bores because the engine hasn't warmed up thoroughly, so I don't fancy doing that and then leaving the engine unused for a long storage period. If I have to start it before leaving it in storage again I would run the engine for long enough to warm through properly. You seem to be taking an un-typically very relaxed approach to this Derek, are you going a bit stir crazy? (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 The coolant temperature gauge may be up to "normal" temperature after 30 minutes of idling or 10 minutes of driving under load, but that doesn't mean the engine is up to normal operating temperature sufficient to evaporate corrosive combustion by-products and moisture out of the engine oil, only that the coolant is hot. A drive of around 30 miles or more is suggested to be the minimum necessary to achieve that. Do what you feel you should, but in my opinion all you are doing by unnecessarily starting an engine periodically is causing the engine oil to deteriorate faster and then leaving it festering in the sump for a much longer time than it actually spends circulating under operating conditions. If the engine was last switched off after a decent run there will be very little in the way of nasties in the oil and not starting it unless you intend to use it for a decent journey under normal driving conditions will be far better for it in the long run, in my opinion. Why do you think the cam belt "sitting" on its pulleys is under more stress than when it's turning engine components under considerable load? Granted, rubber belts and similar can become stiff and harden over time, but we're only just over a month into lockdown at the moment and many drive belts probably spend a lot longer than that in their boxes before being taken out and fitted to a vehicle. I might start to think about going for a drive if we're still in this position in another 4 or 5 months time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 Deneb - 2020-05-05 9:36 AM The coolant temperature gauge may be up to "normal" temperature after 30 minutes of idling or 10 minutes of driving under load, but that doesn't mean the engine is up to normal operating temperature sufficient to evaporate corrosive combustion by-products and moisture out of the engine oil, only that the coolant is hot. A drive of around 30 miles or more is suggested to be the minimum necessary to achieve that. Do what you feel you should, but in my opinion all you are doing by unnecessarily starting an engine periodically is causing the engine oil to deteriorate faster and then leaving it festering in the sump for a much longer time than it actually spends circulating under operating conditions. If the engine was last switched off after a decent run there will be very little in the way of nasties in the oil and not starting it unless you intend to use it for a decent journey under normal driving conditions will be far better for it in the long run, in my opinion. Why do you think the cam belt "sitting" on its pulleys is under more stress than when it's turning engine components under considerable load? Granted, rubber belts and similar can become stiff and harden over time, but we're only just over a month into lockdown at the moment and many drive belts probably spend a lot longer than that in their boxes before being taken out and fitted to a vehicle. I might start to think about going for a drive if we're still in this position in another 4 or 5 months time. Understood that 30 miles is better than just getting the water temperature up but I was thinking that 10 miles, which I probably could manage driving to an MOT appointment, is better than just idling for 30 minutes. I had the MH serviced in November so the oil was new (and warmed throg) before it went into storage but I hadn't appreciated that it was desireable to get stuff boiled out of the engine oil rather than just the engine parts heated through. As I think you are saying it is a matter of doing what you think best of a number of options, rather than there being only one right answer. Since we might be only a week or two before there is some loosening of the movement restrictions, I'll bide my time for now. I think I'll get an MOT done (and have a service) at the end of the season in future, so I'm not stuck with needing an MOT appointment straight away when I'm getting the MH out of winter storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Thanks for all those words of wisdom, I'll stop worrying about my newish van not getting out. Battery condition not mentioned by anyone, just checked the control panel and it says 6/8, so I reckon that'll be ok for a while. Leisure battery topped up by solar panel. Too complicated to go out for a drive anyway - SORNed, not insured, steering wheel lock on, driver's seat turned round and padlocked, police nothing better to do than stop people driving on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just picking up on a general topic of mhomes standing for a while. On a recent thread there was comment about the meters (as in fuel, temp, rev counter, Speedo ) sticking because they were not in use. Just wondring if turning the ignition on and off, (no starting) might be a precaution just to bounce the movements. That said, like many others out mhome stands over winter but does get the occasion run on a better day. This will be the longest period stationary. However the dreaded cambelt change is due, so may take advantage of the peace and quite in the garrage trade to get the work done. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Just received this from Toyota (talking about cars) "Start your car once a week Maintain the battery by leaving your car running for 60 minutes once a week. Make sure you’re in a well-ventilated area and stay with your car until you’re done. Check your MOT Even with the government’s six-month exemption scheme, it’s a good idea to keep your car in a roadworthy condition." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyrunner Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Had to move mine off the drive today so I could power wash so it was idling for about 10 minutes . then again 3 hours later for reparking. I hear all this advice and it is probably right .However on our long stays in Spain we have been in one place for up to 3 months and up to press just idled the engine for 10 minutes and the last 2 have been the latest tech engines and so far no harm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 spospe - 2020-05-05 4:00 PM Just received this from Toyota (talking about cars) "Start your car once a week Maintain the battery by leaving your car running for 60 minutes once a week. Make sure you’re in a well-ventilated area and stay with your car until you’re done. Check your MOT Even with the government’s six-month exemption scheme, it’s a good idea to keep your car in a roadworthy condition." Bear in mind they are offering advice to pre-empt possibly hundreds of enquires from customers about what they should do, many of whom would be absolutely flummoxed if it was suggested that they should periodically connect the car to a battery charger. And having sold the cars they have little if any financial interest in the vehicles themselves, which will be owned by the customer or a finance company. But of course any issues further down the line present a revenue stream for servicing and repairs ;-) Did they also advise that it is an offence to leave the car idling if you reside in a local authority designated air quality zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 And mentioned earlier on 27 April in the “Covo storage” thread https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Covo-storage/54959/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 Deneb - 2020-05-06 7:21 AM ... And having sold the cars they have little if any financial interest in the vehicles themselves, which will be owned by the customer or a finance company. But of course any issues further down the line present a revenue stream for servicing and repairs. We extended the Honda Warranty on our 2012 car recently for another three years and took out a Honda Servicing Plan; the dealer told us that over 80% of the cars they work on these days are covered in this way and they are Honda schemes rather than just with the dealer, so I think manufacturers are at risk if they give bad advice about how to store during Lockdown - or at least Honda is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 StuartO - 2020-05-06 8:06 AM We extended the Honda Warranty on our 2012 car recently for another three years and took out a Honda Servicing Plan; the dealer told us that over 80% of the cars they work on these days are covered in this way and they are Honda schemes rather than just with the dealer, so I think manufacturers are at risk if they give bad advice about how to store during Lockdown - or at least Honda is. I wouldn't worry about Honda. Manufacturers price their warranties to create a profit stream, not as a charitable benefit, and most vehicle sales are on lease or PCP arrangements so neither the manufacturer or the current keeper are likely to be too concerned about a risk of what can be easily attributed to wear and tear issues further down the line. Different matter if you own outright and intend to keep the vehicle for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 Clearly the manufacturers' aim is to tie customers in by offering servcing plans and likewise to make profit overall out of the warranties but for the individual owner they do offer a form of insurance against exceptional repair costs and a discount on Honda's usual servicing prices - and it would be foolish for the manufacturer to offer a warranty for older cars like mine unless they were cconfident of their basic reliablility. (I've had to argue to get some faults covered under the warranty but I've been successful so far and it's worked well for me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Here is the advice of the experts at MMM... https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/practical-advice/tech-advice-what-to-do-with-your-motorhome-during-the-coronavirus Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Keithl - 2020-05-06 6:36 PM Here is the advice of the experts at MMM... https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/practical-advice/tech-advice-what-to-do-with-your-motorhome-during-the-coronavirus Keith. That advice suggests you could use your van for your essential shopping. I guess it depends how far your local supermarket is (if your going out shopping of course). Even if your not, I guess you could still legitimately drive it to Tescos and back. my nearest supermarket by decent roads is a twenty mile round trip so it would be a good run out but Ive not bothered mainly because I dont deem it necessary really. Its left for months on end normally anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 Interesting that the MMM experts seem to have variable views. I don't think there is a "right answer" for this issue. My MH is on an EHU so the batteries are being looked after well enough; the Electroblok seems to hold both starter and leisure batteries at 13.7/13.8. I installed a switch to isolate the solar panels while in storage, so the batteries weren't being subjected to diurnal periods of a higher charge voltage. I'm becoming reconciled to just leaving the engine alone until I put the MH back on the road. Goodness knows when that will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 What about the tyre pressures and leaving the handbrake disengaged? You might also consider protecting the windscreen-wiper blades across the summer period (removing them or using foam pipe insulation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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