Colin Leake Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 The old Faits had a panel with a clip on it which one simply pulled up to hold maps or routs etc in the clip. Our new PVC still has this but no matter what I try she no flip up. Any idea what I'm doing wrong chaps. I don't want to force it and do damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 It's been subjected to no flippin progress at all and no longer flippin flips up. If you force it you will break it but with a little ingenuity it ought to be possible to fit a flippin hinge to make it flippin flip. Access to the two screws that flippin hold it in place is by removing the little cubby hole storage thingy above the radio - at least it is on the x250 - dunno about the x290 as it's far too modern for the likes of we! Hope that confuses you even more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Aaah......Mr Colin He cheapskate..... He No Pay for proper Flipping Filipino........ He should've kept old flipping Fiatpino :D ..... Progress eh (lol) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 pelmetman - 2015-07-31 10:28 PM Aaah......Mr Colin He cheapskate..... He No Pay for proper Flipping Filipino......... He should've kept old flipping Fiatpino :D ..... Progress eh (lol) ...... That is not progress, it's a flop. Wait for it ...... A FLIPFLOP. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I understand that it is now fixed down because it could interfere with the airbag system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 JohnP - 2015-07-31 10:57 PM I understand that it is now fixed down because it could interfere with the airbag system So its all down to health and safety? ........... "She no flip up"......in case it goes t*ts up (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeco Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I assume you mean the clip board type holder on the dash above the radio. If so the X290 Auto-trail I have has that feature and it works ok. In fact I have been playing with it this week trying to work out how to fit a bracket to mount my TT GO60 GPS directly above the radio as the X290 Fiat inbuilt GPS does not currently have Australian maps. My AT is off site at present, however from memory you need to push down on the windscreen end near the paper holder and it should release and lift. I am assuming all X290 dash boards are similar in that area. If so then there is a problem with the "flippin" mechanism on your PVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 They only flip up if you don't have a passenger air bag, a small price to pay to save your passengers life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-08-01 6:19 AM They only flip up if you don't have a passenger air bag, a small price to pay to save your passengers life. Absolutely spot on Lenny 8-) Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 lennyhb - 2015-08-01 6:19 AM They only flip up if you don't have a passenger air bag, a small price to pay to save your passengers life. .....not the case with my X290, which has both a passenger air bag and a clipboard holder above the radio that flips up! Edited to add: The manual states (my emphasis): DESK/BOOK REST (for versions/markets, where provided) There is a desk A fig. 98 in the centre of the dashboard above the radio compartment; on some versions this desk can be used as a book rest by raising the back section and resting it on the dashboard as illustrated in the figure. On versions with double passenger side airbag, the desk is fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 lennyhb As Robinhood has highlighted the ‘official’ Fiat advice is essentially the opposite to what you were suggesting - if a Ducato X290 has a single passenger-side front airbag the desk/book rest should swing up, but if it has double passenger front airbags (to protect two people when the vehicle’s cab has three seating positions) the desk/book rest is fixed. Ducato X250 Owner Handooks also included desk/book rest entries and these advised "On versions with passenger side air bags, the desk is fixed.” I suspect that you have misinterpreted that advice - it relates to passenger side-airbags not to front airbags on the passenger side. I don’t know what the situation is with A-class motorhomes, but I would expect all X290 Ducato-based ‘coachbuilt’ motorhomes that use the original cab to have driver and passenger airbags as part of their standard specification. My LHD X290 coachbuilt Rapido has driver and passenger airbags and the swing-up desk/book rest, and I would have thought other X290 coachbuilt motorhomes will be similarly equipped. Not sure about X290 PVCs though, as their specification MIGHT involve a fixed desk/book rest to allow for a twin-passenger-seat option. (Having said that, I think Robinhood’s X290 is a Globecar PVC...) All X290 and X250 handbook entries carry drawings of the desk/book rest that describe how it is deployed. You just take hold of the hinged/sprung document ‘clip’ at the rear and pull it sharply upwards as shown by an arrow on the drawing. A degree of abruptness is required, but no great strength. If the rest refuses to swing up when the ‘clip’ is pulled so hard that damage seems probable if more force were used (as seems to be the case with Colin’s PVC) the rest may well be the fixed type. I know what a swing-up desk/book rest’s complex operating mechanism looks like, but I’m guessing that the fixed version is far more basic. Regarding Gary’s plan to fit a sat-nav bracket to the desk/book rest of his Auto-Trail motorhome, I’ve chosen to ‘glue' my Garmin sat-nav’s suction-mount to the top of the rest. Adhesive mounts are marketed for sat-navs (examples below) http://www.amazon.co.uk/gps/dp/B001763SRI https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/drive/accessories/mounts-docks/easy-dashboard-mount/ but my experience of using an adhesive disk and a suction-mount has not been particularly positive (the disk was fine, it was the suction-mount that was the problem) and as I had a spare Garmin suction-mount it was simpler to stick this directly to the rest using black Wayside “Masterseal”. (I considered using screws to fix the mount, but eventually decided that adhesive was preferable.) Obviously gluing the sat-nav mount to the top of the desk/book rest compromises the rest’s functionality, but I don’t anticipate ever using the rest in its swung-out position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Colin Leake - 2015-07-31 7:37 PM The old Faits had a panel with a clip on it which one simply pulled up to hold maps or routs etc in the clip. Our new PVC still has this but no matter what I try she no flip up. Any idea what I'm doing wrong chaps. I don't want to force it and do damage. Are they still making Faits? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 JohnP - 2015-07-31 10:57 PM I understand that it is now fixed down because it could interfere with the airbag system So, why have the 'now useless' stupid thing there in the first place ? Have they no flipping flip flop sense.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-08-01 9:13 AM Regarding Gary’s plan to fit a sat-nav bracket to the desk/book rest of his Auto-Trail motorhome, I’ve chosen to ‘glue' my Garmin sat-nav’s suction-mount to the top of the rest. Adhesive mounts are marketed for sat-navs (examples below) http://www.amazon.co.uk/gps/dp/B001763SRI https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/drive/accessories/mounts-docks/easy-dashboard-mount/ but my experience of using an adhesive disk and a suction-mount has not been particularly positive (the disk was fine, it was the suction-mount that was the problem) and as I had a spare Garmin suction-mount it was simpler to stick this directly to the rest using black Wayside “Masterseal”. (I considered using screws to fix the mount, but eventually decided that adhesive was preferable.) Obviously gluing the sat-nav mount to the top of the desk/book rest compromises the rest’s functionality, but I don’t anticipate ever using the rest in its swung-out position. Clip a small piece of clear perspex or similar into the desk/book rest and use the suction mount on that. You may need a couple of self adhesive sponge pads on the underside of the perspex to counteract the slight curvature of the desk/rest but it has worked well for me for a few years. I have now made a special box which clips onto the desk rest and inside I have my Sat/Nav & reversing camera set back from the front - with the open side of the box facing me. I no longer get sun-glare on the screens which was a real problem before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 On my LHD Transit-based Hobby motorhome I had the sat-nav mounted to my right using a Garmin suction-mount and a Garmin adhesive disk attached to the dashboard immediately above the radio. A 7” rear-view monitor sat alongside the sat-nav using a DIY-fabricated mount. Despite keeping the disk and suction-mount scrupulously clean, the sat-nav mount would not stay attached to the disk for very long, although it stayed attached to my Skoda car’s windscreen for a couple of weeks (without the sat-nav being on the mount). My present LHD Rapido has a rear-view camera that displays on the screen of a Pioneer AVH-X2700 multi-function radio that was part of Rapido’s ‘Camera Pack’. I dislike the Pioneer unit, but not enough for me to fit a separate monitor or another camera system. Being right-handed I want the sat-nav to my right and within easy reach, and I can meet those objectives by fixing the mount in the front-left corner of the desk/book rest where it will be in roughly the same position as in the Hobby. Sun-glare was not a problem with the Hobby and I don’t anticipate that being the case with the Rapido. There are many different products marketed for dashboard-mounting sat-navs but, for me, ‘glue’ seemed best. I’ve now looked at Peugeot Boxer English-language X250 and X290 handbooks. They all say the same thing – that if the vehicle has a front passenger airbag (ie. an airbag directly in front of the passenger) the desk/book rest (or “folding writing table” in Peugeot-speak) cannot be raised. The double passenger side airbag referred to in the X290 Ducato handbook is not mentioned in the Peugeot documentation. I’ve also looked at non-English-language X250 Ducato handbooks that repeat the advice in the Boxer handbooks. It’s plain then that the Ducato X250 handbooks are NOT referring to side airbags as I thought earlier, so lennyhb was NOT misinterpreting Fiat’s advice as I suggested. Sorry about that... There must be lots of forum members with X250 Ducato/Boxer-based motorhomes and (hopefully) they will know whether their motorhome has a passenger airbag and, if so, whether or not the desk/book rest/folding writing table can be raised. I would have thought it’s more logical for the thing to be fixed if there were NO passenger airbag, and I could understand it being fixed when a 2-person bench-seat is fitted, but a passenger airbag has been almost the norm for years and I can’t really see why the ability to unfold the desk/table would affect the airbag’s operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Afternoon all, My previous x 250 with no passenger airbag had flip up, but my new x250 with passenger airbag does not flip up which was flipping confusing at first. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I notice this came up on the MHFacts forum in 2012. http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/149-fiat-ducato/97460-why-do-x250s-passenger-airbag-have-no-document-holder.html http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/42-sat-nav-gps/97452-garmin-mounting-dish-x250-dash.html It’s very easy to tell if an X250 or X290 has a passenger airbag. If the front of the dashboard directly facing the passenger seat has a big open storage compartment in it, there is no passenger airbag. Conversely, if the dashboard has, instead of the open storage compartment, a curved infill panel with “Airbag” on it, a passenger airbag is present. Anyway, it’s clear that a Ducato X290 can have a passenger airbag and a ‘clipboard holder’ as Robinhood’s motorhome and mine have that combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Thanks for the replies chaps its what this forum is all about and very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-08-02 8:47 AM I notice this came up on the MHFacts forum in 2012. http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/149-fiat-ducato/97460-why-do-x250s-passenger-airbag-have-no-document-holder.html http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/42-sat-nav-gps/97452-garmin-mounting-dish-x250-dash.html It’s very easy to tell if an X250 or X290 has a passenger airbag. If the front of the dashboard directly facing the passenger seat has a big open storage compartment in it, there is no passenger airbag. Conversely, if the dashboard has, instead of the open storage compartment, a curved infill panel with “Airbag” on it, a passenger airbag is present. Anyway, it’s clear that a Ducato X290 can have a passenger airbag and a ‘clipboard holder’ as Robinhood’s motorhome and mine have that combination. I am quite certain that my old 2003 Ducato had a passenger side airbag. The flip up didn't flip up on that vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 747 But your 2003 Ducato would not have been an X250 or X290 model... It now seems plain that, if an X250 Ducato has a passenger airbag, the central ‘document holder’ is fixed and cannot be hinged up. There’s no doubt that the document holder of Ducato X290s with a single passenger airbag can be hinged up, though the handbook’s advice is that the holder will be fixed if the vehicle has a double passenger airbag. I’m not sure where that leaves Colin Leake who raised the issue. I’m assuming his “new PVC” is Ducato X290-based and I would not anticipate it having a double passenger airbag. On that basis, I would have expected his document holder to hinge up, so either his holder’s mechanism is very stiff/jammed, or the holder is fixed, or there’s more to this than the Ducato handbook indicates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-08-04 9:22 AM 747 But your 2003 Ducato would not have been an X250 or X290 model... It now seems plain that, if an X250 Ducato has a passenger airbag, the central ‘document holder’ is fixed and cannot be hinged up. There’s no doubt that the document holder of Ducato X290s with a single passenger airbag can be hinged up, though the handbook’s advice is that the holder will be fixed if the vehicle has a double passenger airbag. I’m not sure where that leaves Colin Leake who raised the issue. I’m assuming his “new PVC” is Ducato X290-based and I would not anticipate it having a double passenger airbag. On that basis, I would have expected his document holder to hinge up, so either his holder’s mechanism is very stiff/jammed, or the holder is fixed, or there’s more to this than the Ducato handbook indicates. Yes it does have a passenger air bag. It's an AutoSleeper as far as I know they all have em as standard. Just for information it's a Peugeot rather than a Fait but I doubt that's relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Colin Leake - 2015-08-04 7:23 PM Derek Uzzell - 2015-08-04 9:22 AM ...I’m not sure where that leaves Colin Leake who raised the issue. I’m assuming his “new PVC” is Ducato X290-based and I would not anticipate it having a double passenger airbag. On that basis, I would have expected his document holder to hinge up, so either his holder’s mechanism is very stiff/jammed, or the holder is fixed, or there’s more to this than the Ducato handbook indicates. Yes it does have a passenger air bag. It's an AutoSleeper as far as I know they all have em as standard. Just for information it's a Peugeot rather than a Fait but I doubt that's relevant. As you had provided no identification details of your “new PVC” in your original inquiry I did a cursory search of your (many) previous postings and established that you had bought an Auto-Sleepers Warwick XL quite recently. However, your reference to ‘Faits’ (Is there something peculiar about your word processor?) led me to think you might have swapped this for a Fiat-based PVC. I have to say I thought this odd at the time, but people do change motohomes on a whim. While it’s reasonable to suppose that the specification of an X290 Peugeot Boxer fitted with a front passenger airbag would be exactly the same regarding the operation of the dashboard document-holder as an X290 Fiat Ducato with a front passenger airbag, that might not be the case. One might think that X250/X290 Boxers with 2.2litre motors would have the same starter-battery as X250/X290 Ducatos with 2.3litre motors, but recent forum discussions indicate otherwise. In my posting of 1 August 2015 4:35 PM I said "I’ve now looked at Peugeot Boxer English-language X250 and X290 handbooks. They all say the same thing – that if the vehicle has a front passenger airbag (ie. an airbag directly in front of the passenger) the desk/book rest (or “folding writing table” in Peugeot-speak) cannot be raised. The double passenger side airbag referred to in the X290 Ducato handbook is not mentioned in the Peugeot documentation.” I don’t know how closely the on-line Boxer handbooks match the paper versions, but you ought to find details of the ‘folding writing table’ in the “Front Fittings” part of the “EASE OF USE and COMFORT” section in the Peugeot handbook provided with your vehicle. The information is on Page 76 of the on-line manual and says "Folding writing table This is located in the centre of the fascia panel. The clip can be used to secure documents, slips, ... Pull or push the top of the table to unfold or fold it. To insert or remove a CD, you must first fold the table. If your vehicle is fitted with a front passenger airbag, the table cannot be raised.” So, as your X290 Boxer-based motorhome has a front passenger airbag (and if the advice in the on-line X290 Boxer handbook is correct) your vehicle’s ‘folding writing table’ cannot be raised. As raising/lowering the 'folding writing table’ is plainly possible with an X290 Ducato that has a front passenger airbag (but not, apparently, if the vehicle has a double passenger airbag) there must either be a difference in the specification of an X290 Boxer and an X290 Ducato, or the Peugeot handbook’s advice is wrong and you ought to be able to raise/lower the folding writing table. As has been earlier suggested, the retention mechanism of your table may be stiff or jammed, but I would think you ought to be able to decide if that’s so or if the table is fixed solidly in place. Beneath the ‘lid’ of my X290’s 'folding writing table' there is nothing mechanical/electrical that relates to the front passenger airbag system, so I can’t offer any credible theory why it’s apparently OK for an X290 Ducato with a (single) front passenger airbag to have a raising/loweriing table, whereas an X290 Boxer with a front passenger airbag must have a table that cannot be raised. (You might try asking Auto-Sleepers about this. If all their X290 Boxer-based motorhomes with a front passenger airbag have an immovable folding writing table, you’ll know that yours is fixed and that there’s no point trying to force it open.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Derek Uzzell - 2015-08-04 9:22 AM 747 But your 2003 Ducato would not have been an X250 or X290 model... It now seems plain that, if an X250 Ducato has a passenger airbag, the central ‘document holder’ is fixed and cannot be hinged up. There’s no doubt that the document holder of Ducato X290s with a single passenger airbag can be hinged up, though the handbook’s advice is that the holder will be fixed if the vehicle has a double passenger airbag. I’m not sure where that leaves Colin Leake who raised the issue. I’m assuming his “new PVC” is Ducato X290-based and I would not anticipate it having a double passenger airbag. On that basis, I would have expected his document holder to hinge up, so either his holder’s mechanism is very stiff/jammed, or the holder is fixed, or there’s more to this than the Ducato handbook indicates. I was simply pointing out that this is not a new phenomenon Derek. BTW it was a 2003 Burstner 747 tag axle coachbuilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 It's true that our current PVC is Peugeot based but our previous AutoTrail was Fait based and the flipping thing on that would also flipping not flip up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Colin Assuming that your Fiat-based Auto-Trail motorhome was a post-2006 model (ie. built on an X250 Ducato chassis), the on-line handbooks for Euro 4 and Euro 5 X250 Ducatos carry exactly the same advice about the desk/book rest. This reads “On versions with passenger side air bags, the desk is fixed”. If your Auto-Trail was X250-based and had a passenger airbag, it should have been anticipated that the document-holder ‘desk’ would have been fixed, but, if it did not have a passenger airbag, it should have been possible (according to the handbook) to hinge up the document-holder’s lid. X290 Fiat Ducatos (like Robinhood’s and mine) with a single passenger airbag have a desk/book rest that can be hinged up, matching the advice in the X290 Ducato handbook. Conversely, it appears that X290 Peugeot Boxers (like yours) only have a desk/book rest that can be hinged up if the vehicle is NOT fitted with a passenger airbag, matching the advice in the X290 Boxer handbook and mirroring what is the case with previous X250 Boxers and Ducatos. It seems, then, that - as far as the dashboard document-holder’s ‘flippability’ is concerned - what the X250 or X290 Peugeot Boxer or Fiat Ducato handbook advises is correct. As lennhb and Martyn said earlier in this thread, X250s (Fiat or Peugeot) with a passenger airbag have a fixed document-holder. X290 Peugeot Boxers with a passenger airbag continue to have a fixed document-holder, whereas X290 Fiat Ducatos with a single passenger airbag now have a ‘flippable’ document-holder. To summarise - if anyone wants an X290-based motorhome with a passenger airbag and a ‘flippable’ dashboard document-holder, they’ll currently need to buy one built on a Ducato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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