AED Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 There is an excellent article in this months MMM,regarding different speed limits for converted vans and true motorhomes.As I am new back into the fold, after a lay off, am I correct in thinking my brand new Wildax Europa 3,5t comes under motor cars for the speed limits ? 60mph on single carriageways , 70 on dual and motorways ? It is based on a Renault Automatic Mastervan and I shall be very happy to adhere to the limits ( Whenever that may be ! ) Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Alan, The 'car' speed limits only apply if your Wildax is correctly registered as a 'Motor Caravan'. If it is registered as a Panel Van or even Van with Windows then the commercial lower speed limits apply. And the 3.5 tonnes GVW is irrelevant to UK speed limits. What matters is your Unladen weight! if over 3,050 kg (3 imperial tons) then you are subject to the lower limits irrespective of registered body type. https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AED Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 Thanks, my Wildax is indeed registered as a Motor Caravan and on the log book is is described as Mass in service 3009 and the max permissible mass 3500. I can only assume that the 3009 figure is the Unladen weight ? Does that give me the higher speed limits ? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 'Mass in service' will be what I call Mass in Running Order (aka MIRO) and will include things over and above your Unladen weight so you should be well below the 3,050 kg limit. https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AED Posted March 8, 2021 Author Share Posted March 8, 2021 Thanks Keith for explaining that.It was the Mass in service that I did not understand, of course that would include the driver and fuel ect. I get it now as the unladen only weight is not separately documented. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Keithl - 2021-03-08 11:29 AM Alan, The 'car' speed limits only apply if your Wildax is correctly registered as a 'Motor Caravan'. If it is registered as a Panel Van or even Van with Windows then the commercial lower speed limits apply. And the 3.5 tonnes GVW is irrelevant to UK speed limits. What matters is your Unladen weight! if over 3,050 kg (3 imperial tons) then you are subject to the lower limits irrespective of registered body type. https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits Keith. We did have some long posts on this subject a short time ago. I think you are not correct in saying the speed limit is related to the V5 description. My understanding is that if the intention is that the vehicle is a Motor Caravan then the speed limits for that type are the relevant one’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Name-on-V5/56575/ This post should give you more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-03-08 5:10 PM https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Name-on-V5/56575/ This post should give you more info. John, that string is about insurance, not speed limits. Keith is right. If the vehicle description on the V5C is Motor Caravan the applicable speed limit is determined by its unladen weight. If the unladen weight (which is not stated in any of the documentation and - because of various omissions - is lower than its mass in running order) over 3050kg the lower, commercial vehicle, limits apply but if under 3050kg the limits are those for private cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 John, OK, It seems this may be a 'Grey' area of the law. "The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification." https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan According to to the Gov.uk website a vehicle can be recognised as being converted to a 'Motor Caravan' if it meets all the requirements of these 4 categories: Category 1: Seats and table Category 2: Sleeping accommodation Category 3: Cooking facilities Category 4: Storage facilities https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/registering-a-diy-caravan/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motorhome BUT unless it also meets the External requirements then the 'Body type' will not be changed on the V5C. So if your V5C states 'Motor Caravan' then it is easy to decide BUT if not 'Motor Caravan' then you may have to argue your case in court if you were summoned for speeding against the commercial limits. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-03-08 5:24 PM jumpstart - 2021-03-08 5:10 PM https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Name-on-V5/56575/ This post should give you more info. John, that string is about insurance, not speed limits. Keith is right. If the vehicle description on the V5C is Motor Caravan the applicable speed limit is determined by its unladen weight. If the unladen weight (which is not stated in any of the documentation and - because of various omissions - is lower than its mass in running order) over 3050kg the lower, commercial vehicle, limits apply but if under 3050kg the limits are those for private cars. Apologies,wrong post. If on the V5 the description is Van with window but has been converted to a motor caravan ie with table,sink etc then it is the same speed limits as cars. If the same vehicle without conversion is used to carry goods it has the speed limit of vans . So it doesn’t have to say “ motor caravan “ on the V5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 So are we saying here that MIRO is the same as unladen weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajohno Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Pete-B - 2021-03-08 8:36 PM So are we saying here that MIRO is the same as unladen weight? Gov.uk definition of unladen The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items. It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road. It doesn’t include the weight of: fuel batteries in an electric vehicle - unless it’s a mobility scooter or powered wheelchair I think for a Motorhome or Campervan also not included camping equipment fresh water, grey water and sewage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 This link lists a variety of vehicle weight definitions https://app.croneri.co.uk/topics/vehicle-weights-and-weight-limits/employer-factsheet-vehicle-weight-definitions “Unladen weight” has been discussed here many times over the years as this GOOGLE-search shows https://tinyurl.com/4rf2sr4e According to the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations UNLADEN WEIGHT means the weight of a vehicle inclusive of the body and all parts which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle and of loose tools and loose equipment. In the case of a motor vehicle KERB WEIGHT means the weight of a vehicle when it carries no person, a full supply of fuel in its tank, an adequate supply of other liquids incidental to its propulsion, and no load other than the loose tools and equipment with which it is normally equipped; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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