LordThornber Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Looking to the future, as you do, we're exploring all options for additional transport when in our next van which we intend to be using for much longer periods of time. We've decided that to meet our needs best I would take my motorcycle test, something I never got around to when I was a biker in my twenties. Anyway I have just come across this.. http://www.uk.piaggio.com/en_UK/prodotti/mp3_yourban/default.aspx This, due to some very quirky regulations regarding tyre/wheel width (I think), can be driven on a full car license, negating the need for a bike test if you don't have one... I've been to view one today, wow what a piece of kit. There's a days riding tuition thrown in and a CBT to take if you should require (want) it. I'm not suggesting for a second anyone should just go and buy and ride one of course without some tuition. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I thought the same as you at first and considered a 50cc bike which I bought. However, after about a year I went for the Piaggio 125cc Typhoon. Also taking lessons and sitting the test is really essential if you want to stay safe on the roads today. The CBT will give you the initial guidance, but you will soon get into bad habits and taking the test with the addition of the written test will make you a safer and better rider. The 125cc bike will enable you to keep up with traffic and get away from the lights with 2 up. You will comfortably cruise at 50mph and you will not be crowded in 40 limits or in areas where the national speed limit applies. It's great fun in Italy where drag races off the lights seem to be the thing and the 125cc will get you out in front. We have now stopped taking it on the camper van as I have reached an age when I do not really want to fall off in a foreign land. It is very tempting to ride these machines without protective clothing and 20 yards along the tarmac, with shorts on, will soon takes the flesh off. Take care and do the test. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Martin, what is the weight and how do you intend to carry it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Interesting bike Martyn. We have been carrying a scooter for about three years now and wonder how we ever did without. This three wheeled bike I could not find the weight anywhere in the brochure, do you know how much it weighs, looks heavy, plenty of carriers out there though that would take it if your van will. Can you carry a passenger without a bike licence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Not seen many in UK but they are very popular in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 There is a lot of on-line information about these Piaggio vehicles, including: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_MP3 http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/piaggio-mp3-yourban-review/17301.html http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Piaggio/Piaggio-MP3-Yourban-300ie-LT-2011---current/ Inevitably, because it's got three wheels not two and the related extra steering/suspension bits-and-pieces, none of the MP3s is light, with advertised 'dry' weights of 200kg minimum. They also aren't cheap, with £4749 quoted for the 125cc version and £5649 for the 300cc. Apparently only the 300cc version (with its wider front track) qualifies as a '3-wheeler' and can be legally driven in the UK on a car licence. I used to be a keen biker in the early-1960s - and bear the scars to prove it - and was 'born again' for a while after ten years or so of car-driving. I haven't ridden a motorbike for 30 years, but I occasionally get an urge to return to two wheels, imagining howling round Brecon Beacon back-roads on a warm summer morning at daybreak. Then reality (and self-preservation) kicks in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 I had it weighed whilst I was there having a look, it was 216 kgs, with all fluids on as it was a demonstrator. Henry, yes you can carry a passenger on it, go on a Motorway and (!!!) ride it without a helmet. Derek is quite correct, only the 300cc is ok with car license but without a bike license. Waiting list (up here) is about 1 month. Servicing every 4000 miles Reading a forum, an owner informs that the standard visor is crap, other than that, 100% happy. One for sale at a dealers down your way I think Eddie £700 cheaper than new with 600 miles on it. It wouldn't be for our present van, this is one for the next van, be it on a trailer or (preferably to me) on a scooter rack, all weights etc being permissable. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 300cc ok on a car license, but can you carry a passenger?:-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duetto owner Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 i thought it was the other way round like the old reliant robin. you could drive one on motorbike licence and no a car one as it had three wheels and not four. i may be wrong thinking back to early 70's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Hi just showed my wife the link and her immediate comment was " that looks fun". Currently i tow a honda 600 cbf but Maggie has problems with knees and is having more and more problems getting off at our destination. This looks like it might be easier. I will find a dealer for a look. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 pelmetman - 2011-11-12 4:24 PM 300cc ok on a car license, but can you carry a passenger?:-S Dave, yes you can, I put it on my 2nd line, perhaps you missed it. You can drive this on a car license which means:- Carry passenger Go on M'way No helmet Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-11-12 5:34 PM You can drive this on a car license which means:-Carry passengerGo on M'wayNo helmetMartynThanks for the clarification Martyn;-).................So I could go on a motorway but not carry pelmets8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 duetto owner - 2011-11-12 4:39 PM i thought it was the other way round like the old reliant robin. you could drive one on motorbike licence and no a car one as it had three wheels and not four. i may be wrong thinking back to early 70's Up until 1963 only people with a full car licence could drive a 3-wheeler with a reverse gear. Motorcycle licence holders with no car licence had to have the reverse gear disabled if it was fitted. The change of law in 1963 means that anyone can now have a reverse gear on a 3-wheeler. In 1960 a pal of mine (Vic) acquired the first of several V-twin Morgan 3-wheelers that could then be bought for peanuts. He initially drove it on a provisional motorcycle licence with the reverse gear disabled (in theory at least) by a quickly-removable metal plate attached to the gear-shift 'gate'. Once he had got the hang of the thing he applied for a 'car' driving test with the Morgan's reverse gear re-enabled on the day of the test simply by removal of the metal plate. The Morgan had poor brakes and Vic used to recount that, when the time in the test came for the obligatory Emergency Stop, he had reacted with (his usual) lightning speed and crammed on all the brakes (hand and foot) that the Morgan had. The vehicle was going downhill at the time and coming to a halt seemed to take forever. Vic and the examiner (crammed alongside Vic in the Morgan's open cockpit) looked back up the hill through the haze of burnt-rubber tyre-smoke to see a black line snaking from top to bottom. "Well", said the examiner, "You certainly did your best, but I think you are going to need a new rear tyre." Vic reckoned that he passed the test as much as anything because the examiner didn't dare risk a repeat experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Dave, the info from the sales chap was just that - no helmet required. Obviously you'd be making your own choices as to whether you'd wear one or not. I know I would wear one. However, he did say he'd advise against it, (not wearing one) for the obvious (safety) and Plod stopping you ever other 5 minutes.... 8-) He was, all sales jargon aside, very passionate about this design, he joked about it (I think it was a joke) when he said these were the future. Asking him to expand, he went on about the grip being quite unreal, the feeling of (relative) security and safety when riding these things VERSUS a traditional scooter. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Getting caught up in the moment ! Online insurance for me and the Good lady to drive. Both over 65 , Both car drivers, No m/bike experience , £275 includes legal and recovery. £450 excess. (Insurance can be obtained without the addons, but is more expensive if added seperately) Just in case anyone else is thinking of going down this route ! Rgds PS Just brought two electric bikes . Bu@@er ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The Piaggio MP3 is one of those odd designs that occasionally sidle their way into niches in UK vehicle-regulations. When my pal Vic was driving his Morgan on a provisional motorcycle licence, another friend was doing the same with an Isetta bubble-car. The Isetta actually had four wheels, but the rear two were close together and 'counted' as a single wheel as far as the UK regulations at the time were concerned. Consequently an Isetta could (assuming its reverse-gear had been disabled) be driven on a motorcycle licence. The Messerschmitt 3-wheel bubble-car was also being marketed then. This had no reverse-gear as such but, if you needed to go backwards, you stopped the engine and tripped a switch that caused the (2-stroke) motor to revolve in the opposite direction when restarted. As all the ratios in the gearbox remained available, you could (in principle) travel as fast in reverse as going forwards. I've no idea how a Messerschmitt fitted into the UK's driving-licencing rules. My understanding is that the 300cc version of the Piaggio MP3 is classed in the UK as a motorised 'tricycle' because its two front wheels are over 460mm apart and its unladen weight is below 550kg. UK law relating to 'trikes' is a mite surreal and I've taken the following from the trikeshop.co.uk website: "Before October 2000, a person who passed a motorcycle test was granted a full sub-category B1 licence (lightweight car, motor quadricycle, motor tricycle) as an additional entitlement with the full A (motorcycle) licence. The Driving Standards Agency, in their 'Safer Motorcycling' consultation, proposed that, in future, successful motorcycle test candidates would be issued with a provisional rather than a full B1 licence. 49 of the 57 consultees who commented on the issue were in favour of this proposal, including safety, police and training interests. There were representations against from companies selling lightweight cars, the National Trike Register and MAG UK, suggesting that riders might want to use their licence to ride tricycles. There were suggestions that separate licence categories should be introduced, but changes to motor vehicle licence categories would require a change to EU law. Ministers decided to implement the proposal, which affected very few motorcyclists as over 90% held a full car licence (which continues to give full sub-category B1 entitlement). Nor did it affect anybody already holding a full motorcycle licence, who retained full B1 entitlement. The changes were implemented during October 2000. What the above did mean though is that, if you didn't have a full car or bike licence before October 2000 and wish to either convert your motorcycle into a trike, or buy a new trike, you will now have to apply for a provisional car licence and - if you wish to carry passengers - then pass the driving test. This is very unfair as a car driver with no experience of bikes can get straight on to certain types of trike, with passengers, and ride away. Also if you're forced onto a trike due to a disability or a smash you'll have to apply for a provisional car licence even though you've been riding bikes for years! You can ride a trike on a provisional car licence, ie. with "L" plates, but you must be 17 ( or 16 if you are getting Disability Living Allowance at the higher rate for the mobility component ) and the trike must have only one seat - the rider's seat. If you do wish to carry passengers, your trike can have extra seats, but you must carry a qualified bike or car licence holder with you at all times; this is also dependant, of course, on which sort of trike your accompanying full licence holder is qualified to ride." The trikeshop.co.uk website confirms that (at least in the UK) neither the rider of a trike, nor any passengers, are legally required to wear helmets, emphasising however that an insurance provider may take a dim view if helmets aren't worn and an accident results in injury. There's also some intriguing stuff about the Vehicle Excise Duty and MOT-test classes that apply to the various types of trike. (An interesting example of when size really does matter, as the smaller-engined Piaggio MP3, with its narrower front 'track', is classed in the UK as a motorcycle and attracts all our motorbike-related legal paraphernalia (compulsory training, hemets, etc.) Conversely, the larger-engined, more powerful version, just because its front wheels are slightly further apart, is immediately available to 'car' licence-holders with no motorbike experience/licence, and with no legal requirement for training or helmet-wearing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-11-12 5:34 PM pelmetman - 2011-11-12 4:24 PM 300cc ok on a car license, but can you carry a passenger?:-S Dave, yes you can, I put it on my 2nd line, perhaps you missed it. You can drive this on a car license which means:- Carry passenger Go on M'way No helmet Martyn Go on a motorway? No helmet? Carry Passenger (without helmet?) It will still hurt a lot if you fall off whether it has got 2 wheels or 3 if you have no helmet! As for going on a motorway on one of these without a helmet is signing your own death warrant-especially with no basic training and carrying a passenger. Don't do it!!! At least do a CBT Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 It may well be signing your death warrant Mike, but that's not the issue here. It's about whether it's within the law. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-11-13 8:20 PM It may well be signing your death warrant Mike, but that's not the issue here. It's about whether it's within the law. Martyn Quite agree Martyn but you know what they say---The law is an ass!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I think it will be way to heavy and wide for a rack but I did see one of these three wheelers going into a garage in a big van in France this year. So I reckon its garage or trailer really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-11-12 4:04 PM I had it weighed whilst I was there having a look, it was 216 kgs, with all fluids on as it was a demonstrator. It wouldn't be for our present van, this is one for the next van, be it on a trailer or (preferably to me) on a scooter rack, all weights etc being permissable. Martyn Hi Martyn IMO it will be diffficult to find a Motorhome which can accomodate 216kg on a rack, as you will have the weight of the rack & towbar to add also. So i guess over 250kg in total + the fulcrum effect. One of these, maybe the solution if you don't want the extra length of a conventional trailer. http://www.ezetow.co.uk/ezetow.co.uk/Home.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I think they should bring back the Bond Minicar from the fifties, just stick a caravan tow hitch on it, sorted. That would also get rid of the a frame malarky as well. But I do think they would need to update lifting the bonnet to kick start the engine though ! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I to think the weight would be a problem. My bike weighs 100kg the rack and towbar around 30kg weight added to rear axle 200kg. It also reduces the weight on my front axle by 20kg so it is only just within the 40% of total for the front axle which the maker gives as a minimun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-13 11:35 PM I think they should bring back the Bond Minicar from the fifties, just stick a caravan tow hitch on it, sorted. That would also get rid of the a frame malarky as well. But I do think they would need to update lifting the bonnet to kick start the engine though ! ;-) Ha! Guess what we had for many years .... a Bond Mk G Estate - MDT 90D - in original condition in 'baby blue' - it did have reverse gear and also had a dynastart so we didn't have to lift the bonnet to start it ... although we have seen friends do this and get 'eaten' by their car when they forgot to take it out of gear first! *-) We had loads of fun in it and we had a large bar that attached to the base of the engine (which was mounted on the front wheel and swivelled with it) which had a caravan hitch on the end to drop onto the towball. Apart from the obvious problem of not being to reverse the camper with the Bond attached, dragging it around on the bar knackered the worm and sector steering. I can just smell the two-stroke now ...... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Mike, agreed there, the law can be an ass, a complete and utter one at that :D John, thanks for that link, very interesting piece of kit. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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