Grumpy Grandad Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Hi. I am going to have air assistance fitted to the back axle of our motorhome. This will allow us to uprate the rear axle loading weight. SV Tech charge approx. £350 to change the plated weight, which is a lot of money. Does anyone know of a company who can do it a bit cheaper please. Thanks Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Ask the air assist people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAlexander Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Mr AHJ Ruffles (calls himself John) company is JR Consultancy tel: 01359 250808 / 01244 544 598 EMAIL ADDRESS: truckcon@outlook.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Grumpy Grandad - 2020-02-07 2:41 PM Hi. I am going to have air assistance fitted to the back axle of our motorhome. This will allow us to uprate the rear axle loading weight. SV Tech charge approx. £350 to change the plated weight, which is a lot of money. Does anyone know of a company who can do it a bit cheaper please. Thanks Stuart Don't forget that you may also need to uprate the rear tyres for the added load, and that if you carry a spare it will only serve as a service tyre on one axle, and would have to be treated as a pure emergency fitting to enable you to get to a repairer/tyre depot at reduced speed if fitted to the other axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Grumpy Grandad - 2020-02-07 2:41 PM Hi. I am going to have air assistance fitted to the back axle of our motorhome. This will allow us to uprate the rear axle loading weight. SV Tech charge approx. £350 to change the plated weight, which is a lot of money. Does anyone know of a company who can do it a bit cheaper please. Thanks Stuart I had this vague feeling that SVTech were wary of involving themselves with weight-uprating motorhomes that have an AL-KO chassis (that I’m pretty sure your 2012 Rapido 9048df has). This January 2020 forum discussion refers to JR Consultancy and may be of interest https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/3500kg-and-3300kg-for-identical-vehicles-/54164/ (If your motorhome does have an AL-KO chassis, fitting ‘air assistance’ to the rear suspension won’t be cheap...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Grandad Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 John was the name I was trying to remember. I will have to uprate the tyres to 225/70/15 from 215/70/15 The tyres are about ready to change anyway, as the sidewalls are starting to show signs of cracking. Having an Alko chassis certainly bumps the price up, approx. £1500 plus fitting. Still not sure whether it's all worth doing, but we are running extremely tight on axle weights at the moment. We're only going to gain another 130kgs on the back axle, although it would mean I could then carry a spare wheel. Wasn't very happy going to Spain last year without a spare!! Thanks Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 I notice that your Rapido’s weight was discussed in the following 2017 forum thread not long after you purchased the motorhome https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Rapido-inside-lights/48328/ I don’t know if the maximum axle weights of a 2012 3700kg-chassis 9048df model were any greater than those of the 3500kg-chassis version, but the normal load index of a 215/70 R15C tyre is 109, which equates to a maximum tyre-load of 1030kg (maximum axle load of 2060kg). 225/70 R15C tyres normally have a load index of 112 equating to a maximum tyre-load of 1120kg (maximum axle load of 2240kg). I think I once came across a 215/70 R15C tyre with a load index above 109, but as your present tyres need changing it would be sensible to replace them with 225/70 R15C tyres front and rear as, even if you eventually decide not to have the Rapido’s weight maxima uprated, the option would remain available where the tyres are concerned. In the 2017 forum thread Brian Kirby raised the question of weighbridge accuracy and you said that you used a VOSA weighbridge. Given the significant cost of the weight-uprating exercise and how little extra axle-weight you’d be gaining, equipment accuracy will be particularly important and a weighbridge designed to cope with large heavy trucks may lack pin-point accuracy for a vehicle weighing less than four tonnes. You’ve said that “...we are running extremely tight on axle weights at the moment”, but I assume that means the Rapido’s axles are still below their maximum loadings. If the rear-axle load maximum is increased beyond 2060kg, you’d need to increase the rear tyre size, but I very much doubt that adding air assistance to the rear axle is a technical (or legal) necessity for such a small (130kg) increase, though I’m well aware that SVTech would advise this should be done. Suggest you recheck the Rapido’s weights very carefully (on a couple of different weighbridges) to ensure that you really REALLY need to spend a couple of thousand pounds on a weight uprating exercise. (A Ducato 15”-diameter steel wheel with tyre only weighs about 27kg, but I’m not sure where you’d carry it on a Rapido 9048df.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machra Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 I used John last year. Price was in the order of £180. But I had an email chain from my motorhome manufacturer (Burstner) saying that to upgrade to weight I was looking at (from 3500 to 3850kgs) no alterations were necessary. So basically I did the leg work and all John had to do was supply me with the documentation that would be acceptable to DVLA stating the vehicle spec was acceptable to be plated at 3850 kgs. Having said that I contacted SVTech and on speaking with them they still wanted nearly £400 even though I made them aware I had an email chain from the manufacturer stating that the whole thing could be done as a ‘paper exercise’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 A 2012 Rapido 9048df was marketed on a Ducato ‘light’ chassis with a maximum overall weight of 3500kg or 3700kg and Stuart has the 3700kg variant. (It was also possible to specify a 9048df on a Ducato ‘heavy’ chassis with a maximum overall weight of 4400kg.) It is to be expected that Fiat, Al-KO and Rapido would not authorise a weight uprate for a ‘light chassis’ 9048df beyond 3700kg, though I’m quessing that uprating a 3500kg version to 3700kg might be uncontroversial and just be considered a ‘paper exercise’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 FWIW, our Hymer Exsis-I 578 (AlKo chassis) was delivered in 2013 at an optional MAM of 3,700kg (standard was 3,500kg). The AlKo rear axle max was 2,000kg, and the Fiat front axle 1,850kg. This reflected the max permissible axle loads for the standard Fiat "light" chassis. Tyres; Continental Vanco Camper - 215/70 R15 CP. In 2016, having run the vehicle, and monitored its laden weight, for three years, I decided the faff (and cost) of having medicals to maintain my C1 rights was excessive in relationship to any benefits gained, and had the van down-plated to 3,500kg. This was practical because, although it could flirt with 3,500kg, this load condition was only approached with the van fully laden, with all our camping clutter, bikes, food, drinks, clothing, books, cameras, computers, and us, on board with the fresh water tank full, plus two full 13kg gas cylinders. In other words, only when leaving home outbound, so unlikely to be exceeded thereafter. At that load condition, actual axle loads were 1,640kg front and 1,860kg rear, co comfortably within their limits. The sole disadvantage was the increase in VED! The down-plate was carried out via the nearest Hymer dealership (Premier Motorhomes, Chichester), so that a "proper" Hymer replacement plate was issued to be substituted for the original, 3,700kg plate. I then submitted the details to DVLA to get the V5C re-issued at 3,500kg. The administrative charges were just under £250, plus a pro-rata part year payment for the increased VED. This ensured that the van details on Hymer's records were also updated to reflect the change, so that any future problems would get appropriate advice from the manufacturer. As Stuart's van is already at 3,700kg, and he says it is running "tight" (I assume from weighbridge results in a "worst case" load condition) on axle loads, plus there being little actual gain on the rear axle loading in relationship to cost, one is drawn to wonder whether the benefit justifies the cost. Possibly worth reviewing where all the load is coming from, reducing that selectively, and keeping the change (plus sticking to the marginally cheaper 215/70 R 15 tyres)! :-D One further thought is that as the AlKo chassis is type-approved only a type-approved air suspension system should be installed, and this would, I believe, have to be from AlKo - which is doubtless where the cost arises. As Stuart says, it is a high cost to gain only 130kg on the rear axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Grandad Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 Hi Everyone. Thankyou very much for all of your very helpful advice. We mainly do wild camping and attending weekend motorhome rallies, very very seldom on mains hookup. We therefore have two 110 amp batteries, which are both in the battery box underneath the oven right at the back of the van. Obviously these do put quite a lot of weight onto the back axle. I now feel that having air assistance does not warrant the cost of it, so we will try to remove as many unnecessary items as possible. There is a tow bar which I believe weighs about 35 kgs, plus a cycle rack. Perhaps we also need not carry so much alcohol !! We only run with about a half full water tank. I will remove these items in the next couple of weeks, then take the van to a weighbridge. The tyres are still need of being changed, so I am going to go for the larger size, 225/70/15. This will then give us the option of increasing the axle weight in the future. Thanks again for all of your help. Next job is to change the useless headlight bulbs for better versions !! Regards, Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Grandad Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 Hi. I must stress that apart from the weight issue, we are very pleased with the motorhome. I had expected a poorer fuel use in comparison to our previous 3 litre Hymer 544, but returned almost 29mpg on our recent trip to Spain. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Just while you are thinking about changing, consider winter or all season tyres, given new regulations re travelling in Germany and elsewhere. But not cheap. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F133315954562 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F174166924829 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Brian About The AL-Ko Chassis it should read: EC Approval instead of type approval which is different stage. They have it on their chassis and all air suspension products reflecting and written in their COC papers. To give a example of my sold motorhome burstner fiat- AL-Ko: Fiat light front pull 1850kg front "L" Strut. Axle. Alko rear 2000kg Being the same thing burstner can provide a coc of 3500.3700,3850. The Retrofit of air by alko is just paper if done by them. Being the same as newbuilt. Be sure you have a controlled crash on your suspension gear in terms of weight and Speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Grumpy Grandad - 2020-02-09 12:56 PM Hi Everyone. Thankyou very much for all of your very helpful advice. We mainly do wild camping and attending weekend motorhome rallies, very very seldom on mains hookup. We therefore have two 110 amp batteries, which are both in the battery box underneath the oven right at the back of the van. Obviously these do put quite a lot of weight onto the back axle. I now feel that having air assistance does not warrant the cost of it, so we will try to remove as many unnecessary items as possible. There is a tow bar which I believe weighs about 35 kgs, plus a cycle rack. Perhaps we also need not carry so much alcohol !! We only run with about a half full water tank. I will remove these items in the next couple of weeks, then take the van to a weighbridge. The tyres are still need of being changed, so I am going to go for the larger size, 225/70/15. This will then give us the option of increasing the axle weight in the future. Thanks again for all of your help. Next job is to change the useless headlight bulbs for better versions !! Regards, Stuart Just a thought, Stuart, but have you considered moving the two habitation batteries forward, possibly to below the sofa, so that their weight is shared between the axles? If there is a reasonably handy cable route that would allow that, it would take about half their weight off the rear axle which, with removal of the towbar, should easily compensate for the weight if a spare - assuming you have somewhere to stow it! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Grandad Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 Hi, Brian. Re, moving the batteries. I did exactly what you suggest on our previous motorhome. I've looked into the possibility of doing the same on the Rapido, but it would involve an awful lot of cable re-routing. Having said that though, our Rapido does have a double floor so all cabling would be fairly easy to re-route. As the batteries are about 5 foot behind the axle, it would be interesting to know how much extra weight they transfer to the rear axle. Regarding the tyres. I will be fitting Michelin Agilis Camper M&S tyres. The cheapest I have been able to find were from Black Circle, £121.38 inc fitting. Regards Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Grumpy Grandad - 2020-02-09 8:26 PM As the batteries are about 5 foot behind the axle, it would be interesting to know how much extra weight they transfer to the rear axle. Regards Stuart Stuart, Work out the weight of the batteries then 'reverse engineer' the figures into the SV Tech load calculator... http://lda2.svtech.co.uk/design?type=type1 You will only need approx axle weights to find the 'difference'. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Grumpy Grandad - 2020-02-09 8:26 PM ... Regarding the tyres. I will be fitting Michelin Agilis Camper M&S tyres. The cheapest I have been able to find were from Black Circle, £121.38 inc fitting. Regards Stuart There are alternatives to Michelin’s “Agilis Camping” that you might consider. Hankook Vantra RA18 Continental VanContact 4Season Agilis CrossClimate CrossClimate has a directional tread-pattern, but is intended to have ‘winter tyre’ capabilties without compromising ’summer’ usage. (I have Michelin Agilis Camping tyres on my Rapido motorhome and I have no particular affection for them. If I were replacing all four of them I would fit something else.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Grumpy Grandad - 2020-02-09 8:26 PM Hi, Brian. Re, moving the batteries. I did exactly what you suggest on our previous motorhome. I've looked into the possibility of doing the same on the Rapido, but it would involve an awful lot of cable re-routing. Having said that though, our Rapido does have a double floor so all cabling would be fairly easy to re-route...……………………. Regards Stuart Not sure what you are anticipating, but all I had in mind was to leave the existing battery connections to the van 12V system in situ, disconnect the existing + and - battery connection leads, and install new, but longer, + and - leads to connect from the existing 12V connection points to the batteries in their new location. You would obviously need "chunky" leads to compensate for the extra resistance (voltage drop) due to the longer leads, but providing you can find a suitable home for the batteries, and a route for the two leads, there should be no need (I think: anyone think otherwise?) to re-route anything else. If access to the double floor void is adequate, could the batteries also be housed in that (suitably restrained, and subject to any access/vent requirements)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Grandad Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 Hi Derek. I appreciate that there are very similar tyre manufacturers to Michelin, often cheaper as well. Obviously the same as everyone else we can't just try other makes willy nilly. When we bought our Hymer it was fitted with Continental tyre, and the ride was absolutely dreadful, possibly they had been over inflated by the previous owner. We were in the fortunate position of having two motorhomes for a short while. The Bessecar was shod with Michelin Agilis tyres, so I swapped them over, and they transformed the ride. That's the only reason why I tend stick too Michelins. I will look at other brands though. Sorry Brian, yes I was over thinking things a bit when I said about moving cables etc. As you say, all I need are longer cables. I would probably use welding cable. When I remove the tow bar I will weigh the van again and post the results on here. I don't intend lying under the van at the moment though, it's pouring down outside !!! Thanks again to both of you for all of your advice. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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