Weights and plating the new van.

[slowdriver]

I am looking for comments on whether the scenarios outlined below are in the right ball-park and for any other useful input.

 

I have on order, from Germany, a new La Strada EB (PV). It’s on the Fiat Ducato 4.0t , Maxi chassis, with 16”wheels with an auto box, 180hp engine, awning, 2 solar panels, 150 amp battery, Comfort and Tech Packs plus some other “stuff”. Add that all up and it weighs in at 3,288kg according to the La Strada invoice. It is not clear what allowance is made, in the base 3 ton calculation weight of the van, for diesel, driver etc apart from a note indicating that this includes 30 litres of water. I am assuming the van will come plated at 4,000kg which leaves us a generous 712kg of payload unless I down-plate (see below).

 

I have a C1 licence, I’m 68. My wife does not have a C1 licence. We do most of our motor-home travel in Europe. My wife is not an enthusiastic driver although she has driven the previous camper - a T5 LWB VW on N roads in France, for an hour or two. She is, however, an excellent navigator, superlative cook, and extremely decorative, so before anyone suggests it, I’m not leaving her behind.

 

We seem to have three choices.

 

1. The first, is to leave the van plated at 4.0 tons and for my wife to take the C1 test. She can then drive the La Strada when so inclined or if there is an emergency. I would need to take the medical in two years time. I am currently fit and do not anticipate any issues with it.

 

2. The second is for my wife not to take the C1 test and I do all the driving. I’d lose my emergency driving backup. I would need to take the medical in two years time.

 

3. The third is to down-plate the van to 3.5 tons at which point with myself and my wife on board (126kg combined) we have 86kg of payload to play with (and that’s assuming the La Strada weight figures on the invoice include “some” allowance for diesel which is currently unknown). Which is not a lot.

There are certain mitigating steps that we can take. The van has diesel heating so we can lose one of the gas cylinders which will save I think around 27kg (gas and cylinder), additionally we can use a light weight cylinder, which might save 5kg or so. So with some attention to detail we would end up with maximum 118 kg of payload after we were both aboard. Still not a lot. However we don’t have bikes just clothing, walking gear, a few books etc (Kindles from now on!) which may be manageable.

 

1 or 2 would seem the easier route. But 3 means:

 

a) we are not speed limited to the same extent

b) we are not subject to weight related (3.5t) exclusions from some areas.

c) we avoid the issues and costs around GoBox and tolls.

d) I understand from other threads that in the UK at least there is guidance for DVSA examiners that for private users there is a 5% “allowance” (175kg on a 3.5 plated van) which results in a verbal warning only. If we were to take “advantage” of that then our effective allowance would rise to something manageable i.e. 293kg. Is the practice in Europe similarly considerate?

I note from earlier threads that no-one has, apparently, ever been stopped or significantly sanctioned, just told to dump water or lose weight in some other way.

Given that we are driving a 4.0t vehicle I do not believe actual safety limits are threatened.

 

Have I got the options correct.?

 

As far as 1 and 2 are concerned - how many 4 ton PVC's ever get stopped for exceeding their reduced speed limits?

 

What would you do and why?

 

 

 

 

[colin]

I would note that there is no reduced speed limits in UK due to gross weight, it all to do with unladen weight.

p.s. It is probable that the figure you have got will be the MIRO, this will include an allowance for the driver, so you will need to allow for passenger and everything else, it will mean that trying to keep within 3.5t will be very difficult.

[Billggski]

C1 test every time, it gives you flexibility and remain legal.

I can't see how that maxi chassis can run at 3500kg and you run the risk of being stopped both here and abroad, no matter how rare that situation might be.

[slowdriver]

Billggski - 2019-11-08 5:35 PM

 

C1 test every time, it gives you flexibility and remain legal.

I can't see how that maxi chassis can run at 3500kg and you run the risk of being stopped both here and abroad, no matter how rare that situation might be.

 

It is, as I understand it, reasonably straightforward to down-plate from 4.0 tons to 3.5 tons and entirely legal, the original convertor can do it. The distributor can organise it as well. Although of course you can then only run the van fully loaded at 3.5 tons. It appears that it is when trying to go the other way - up-plating from 3.5 that things can get tricky depending on the motorhome and chassis, but that is irrelevant in my situation.

But I do take your point on the utility of the C1 licence which is why my wife is cautiously prepared to take the test.

[colin]

slowdriver - 2019-11-08 5:57 PM

 

Billggski - 2019-11-08 5:35 PM

 

C1 test every time, it gives you flexibility and remain legal.

I can't see how that maxi chassis can run at 3500kg and you run the risk of being stopped both here and abroad, no matter how rare that situation might be.

 

It is, as I understand it, reasonably straightforward to down-plate from 4.0 tons to 3.5 tons and entirely legal, the original convertor can do it. The distributor can organise it as well. Although of course you can then only run the van fully loaded at 3.5 tons. It appears that it is when trying to go the other way - up-plating from 3.5 that things can get tricky depending on the motorhome and chassis, but that is irrelevant in my situation.

But I do take your point on the utility of the C1 licence which is why my wife is cautiously prepared to take the test.

 

I don't think the post was about plating at 3.5t ( I have a similar Maxi van but lower roof which is plated at 3.5t) it's about being able to sensibly run under 3.5t

[goldi]

Good evening,

 

 

I would avoid taking an overloaded van to europe because they are more likely to have zero tolerance. You are more likely to not get stopped with your wife driving.

[david lloyd]

Hi slow driver - I have to agree with most of the comments so far. Even if your van weights have been quoted at "industry standard" MIRO (which tend to vary by manufacturer) you will struggle at 3500kgs. Just try boxing up all the food and drink you will have onboard for a long trip and you will be surprised how heavy that comes in at.

 

There may well be some leniency on the part of DVSA if you are weighed but should you be unfortunate enough to be involved in an accident your insurer will be less understanding if you are over the plated weight. Bear in mind also that increasingly in road weighing is being introduced in the UK and Europe.

 

Since moving back to a coachbuilt we have taken the decision to keep ours at 4250kgs and take my wife off the insurance altogether (she has relinquished her C1) but make sure that our insurance cover includes an emergency driver in the event of my incapacitation.

 

David

[slowdriver]

david lloyd - 2019-11-09 9:25 AM

 

Since moving back to a coachbuilt we have taken the decision to keep ours at 4250kgs and take my wife off the insurance altogether (she has relinquished her C1) but make sure that our insurance cover includes an emergency driver in the event of my incapacitation.

 

David

 

The insurance provision of an emergency driver is an option I was unaware of so many thanks for that. Who do you insure with?

I am pretty sure, having done some more digging into past posts on the subject, especially from Brian Kirby in 2010, that we are going down the C1/ 4 ton route so we can take full advantage of the payload it provides.On reflection it seems that downplating would be perverse in the circumstances. I got the heavy chassis because I prefer over-engineered solutions. I suppose in the back of my mind I am slightly hesitant about moving from a VW to a Ducato because of durability and load concerns. But I was persuaded by the layout, interior build quality, space optimisation and extensive winterisation of the La Strada Avanti (EB). (Too bad there is not a UK dealership anymore) We spend much of our motorhoming as high in the Alps (Italian or French) as we can. The big engine (+15kg) will I hope help on the tightest, steepest, maneuvering that this can entail. The autobox similarly (+18kg). Once I'd made that decision with its weight implications the Maxi seemed the way to go. Many thanks for your input.

[Conrad]

You want to enjoy your investment. If your wife will do the test, well worthwhile having the security of a back-up driver. Also, don't want to be weighing the van every time you go shopping, so register at higher level.

[Brian Kirby]

You ask what folk would do. So here goes! :-)

 

As things stand, you can legally drive the van at 4.0 tonnes.

 

So, I think I would import the van at that weight and, before you load it, make sure the fuel tank is brimmed and all other reservoirs (fresh water, waste tank, toilet cassette, and gas locker) are empty, and take it to a weighbridge and get it weighed in that state, at the same time getting the individual axle weights, and making sure to obtain the weighbridge ticket showing all those figures.

 

I say this because it looks too heavy from the figure you have quoted and, even after you've got it, the basis of La Strada's figure may not be clear. By doing as above, you will have established (and have a record of) the base line for your van. This will also serve to establish whether its unladen weight exceeds 3,050kg, when the reduced UK speed limits would apply. (If it does, you may need to remove everything loose and run the fuel tank right down, so as to more closely approximate to the legal definition of "unladen", as you may be a bit tight on this measure, which will apply whatever its MAM)

 

Our van is a 130PS manual L2 (6.0M long), H2 (2.6M high) Ducato on the Maxi chassis, with optional 120 litre fuel tank and Thule/Omnistor awning. It is plated at 3,500kg. Weighed as above it is 2,900kg, 1,600kg front, 1,300kg rear. Yours is longer and taller, so on a like for like basis will inevitably weigh more, but 388kg more implies it is also lead lined, which I doubt! :-)

 

If it helps, ours has a fresh water tank quoted as 100 litre capacity (100kg: I start off with it full, but the weight reduces as water is consumed) and a gas locker that will just take 1 x 13kg steel propane cylinder, and 1 x 5kg propane cylinder (25kg and 18kg respectively including cylinder tare weights). Weighed in fully laden state, with us both on board, plus all our camping gear (ramps, EHU, water hose, air pump) plus all food, drinks, guide books, clothes, bedding, etc.etc. (i.e. the lot! :-)) it comes in at 3,420kg (1,760 front, 1,660kg rear). So, that represents its realistic maximum weight, which will then reduce as food, drinks, fuel, and gas are consumed. (I would not expect the van ever to weigh as much thereafter during a trip as, although the "consumables" are replaced as we go, it would be extremely unlikely that all would be replaced to the same degree, at the same time, in one single hit.)

 

I suspect that if so loaded yours would be over the 3,500kg, but not by that much.

 

So, I'd say first get it, then weigh empty, then again full, and see what the actual results are. I think you'll probably be very close to 3,500kg; as above, probably a little over, but you will then know by how much, and can decide at that point whether you can reduce the load by whatever without inconvenience, or whether you will prefer to run at over 3,500kg.

 

You say your wife is a reluctant second driver. So is mine, plus she has never driven abroad, and has never driven a LHD vehicle. So, she is not named as a driver on our insurance (Comfort), which then does provide for an emergency driver to repatriate the vehicle if necessary. If your wife were included as a named driver, I think you'd find the premium was fixed on that basis, and she would be expected to drive if you could not. It would be worth exploring these options with your preferred insurer to see what they say.

 

Then, when you are satisfied on weights, you should find it relatively straightforward to get the van plated down to 3,500kg, if that is your preference, in time for your 70th birthday.

 

Our previous van was originally plated at 3,700 kg, but in practice ran just below when fully laden, and I got fed up with the faff and cost of maintaining the C1 licence, so down plated it to 3,600kg. DVLA wanted proof that it could safely be operated at the reduced MAM (yes, I know!! :-)), so I opted to have the change formalised by the manufacturer (Hymer), who issued a pukka replacement VIN plate (actually a transfer) and also altered their vehicle database so that all records showed the same MAM, and everyone was happy. Hope this helps.

[david lloyd]

slowdriver - 2019-11-09 12:33 PM

 

david lloyd - 2019-11-09 9:25 AM

 

Since moving back to a coachbuilt we have taken the decision to keep ours at 4250kgs and take my wife off the insurance altogether (she has relinquished her C1) but make sure that our insurance cover includes an emergency driver in the event of my incapacitation.

 

David

 

The insurance provision of an emergency driver is an option I was unaware of so many thanks for that. Who do you insure with?

I am pretty sure, having done some more digging into past posts on the subject, especially from Brian Kirby in 2010, that we are going down the C1/ 4 ton route so we can take full advantage of the payload it provides.On reflection it seems that downplating would be perverse in the circumstances. I got the heavy chassis because I prefer over-engineered solutions. I suppose in the back of my mind I am slightly hesitant about moving from a VW to a Ducato because of durability and load concerns. But I was persuaded by the layout, interior build quality, space optimisation and extensive winterisation of the La Strada Avanti (EB). (Too bad there is not a UK dealership anymore) We spend much of our motorhoming as high in the Alps (Italian or French) as we can. The big engine (+15kg) will I hope help on the tightest, steepest, maneuvering that this can entail. The autobox similarly (+18kg). Once I'd made that decision with its weight implications the Maxi seemed the way to go. Many thanks for your input.

 

Like Brian Kirby we insure with Comfort - not just for the emergency driver cover but they have consistently come in at a better price than others.

 

David

[curdle]

("1. The first, is to leave the van plated at 4.0 tons and for my wife to take the C1 test. She can then drive the La Strada when so inclined or if there is an emergency.")

 

With your wife being a reluctant driver, a word of warning about the C1 licence. The practical driving test has to be done in a box sided lorry, you cannot take the test in your motorhome. Examiners make the assumption that you are taking the test in order to become a professional HGV driver and you are judged accordingly. My wife is a bold driver, but refuses to take the C1 test because there is an obvious difference between a 4050kg motorhome (in our case) and a 7500kg lorry.

[slowdriver]

curdle - 2019-11-10 7:16 AM

 

.....The practical driving test has to be done in a box sided lorry, you cannot take the test in your motorhome. Examiners make the assumption that you are taking the test in order to become a professional HGV driver and you are judged accordingly. My wife is a bold driver, but refuses to take the C1 test because there is an obvious difference between a 4050kg motorhome (in our case) and a 7500kg lorry.

 

That's interesting and helpful. Thanks. I investigated local training outfits and came up with this one:

https://www.nearway.co.uk/c1-test/c1-training-oxfordshire/

A further telephone call suggested that you were both trained and tested on an Iveco Daily (4 ton). The photos on their site suggest the same. I will check again with them as I take your point about the difference between a 4 ton motorhome and 7.5 ton lorry.

[curdle]

Excellent find Chris, I’ll sign my wife up first thing Monday!

[slowdriver]

curdle - 2019-11-10 9:23 AM

 

Excellent find Chris, I’ll sign my wife up first thing Monday!

 

I assume that you gave your wife a heads up. Well I hope you did, :-) anyway, since I have now talked to Nearway Driver Training https://www.nearway.co.uk/locations/banbury/

and they have confirmed that you both learn on an Iveco Daily 4 ton vehicle , and take your test in it, since, it turns out, there is not a requirement to take the test in a 7.5 ton vehicle. Evidently many of their C1 candidates are embarking on a career as an ambulance driver or similar, and the Iveco Daily is a sufficient starting point for that.

 

 

[slowdriver]

Perhaps I can impose and re-visit this question of registering a new German imported Ducato van and get your collective input on, specifically, whether to register it at its currently plated 4000kg or get it downplated in Germany before it leaves the dealership, to 3500 kg, at no cost. The German plate would then be used to set the weight with DVLA

(The conclusion I came to back in November was to plate it at the current 4000kg taking into account the advantages and disadvantages covered earlier in the thread.)

 

The van is currently with the German dealer and about to be shipped to the UK (another story). Their general practice is to advise customers to get the Maxi chassis and then downplate to 3500 unless they have a particularly heavy configuration, e.g. lots of bikes, A/C etc, because of the advantages associated with this. However this normal practice is in the context of subsequent plating back up to 4000kg being very easy and cheap.

In Germany it is "no big deal" do register this particular 4000kg van at 3500kg because the manufacturer takes a pretty conservative approach to weights so it is often the case that even fully laden it comes in under 3500 when weighed. If the customer subsequently finds that they are routinely exceeding the 3500kg limit then it is a straightforward, quick and cheap (€50) to plate it back up to 4000kg.

 

The dealers question to me is: "Are you sure that, in the UK, if we were to plate it for you at 3500kg, (because you have changed your mind on the balance of advantages and disadvantages), will it be straight-forward for you, in the UK, to plate it back at 4000kg if you need to in future?".

I don't know the answer. Do you?

 

Any helpful opinions appreciated.

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

As the ‘down-plating’ of your Avanti EB from 4000kg MAM to 3500kg MAM would have been carried out through the German dealership, I don’t know how the paperwork that would be produced by that exercise would be treated by the DVLA at the UK-registration stage.

 

Given the effect that COVID-19 has had (and continues to have) on the DVLA’s operations, I’d be tempted to leave your motorhome at the 4000kg MAM that its Fiat and La Strada documentation confirms and, if you subsequently want to down-plate to 3500kg MAM, have that done in the UK.

 

I appreciate that there is clearly a financial attraction of having the down-plating done free of charge in Germany, as (unless you chose to DIY the process) down-plating in the UK would cost (say) £200-£300.

 

If the DVLA would accept the German down-plating to 3500kg when UK-registering the Avanti, I would not envisage there being problems subsequently up-plating the vehicle back to 4000kg (though that would also cost a smallish amount unless you DIYed the exercise).

 

However - for an easy life that doesn’t involve exploring unknown territory - I suggest you’d be wiser not to down-plate in Germany and have the Avanti UK-registered at its original 4000kg MAM.

 

(You really need to discuss this with the DVLA, but you might well have difficulty getting an authorative response at the moment.)

[Robinhood]

I've gone back to the original post to reflect on your thinking, so this is my take.

 

My previous 'van was similar to Colin's, high-roof, XLWB and maxi chassis. I think the main difference in loading from your practice was that I carried a rack and two e-bikes, but had no solar fitted. Mine was also a manual, 150 engine. Its starting weight (sans food, clothes, etc. but with bikes) would have been somewhat lower (possibly 200kg) than that you quote.

 

I could (just) run that at 3500kg, with a little care on loading. (That means I might have taken more "stuff" with me if I'd had the capacity, but didn't feel over-constrained - it was weighbridged in absolutely full running order at 3510kg, and then a few things discarded). I was happy to be close to the margin as the vehicle itself was technically capable and safe up 4250kg, and I would seldom be running with full tanks and gas, etc. anyway.

 

I think you know the correct answer, your own calculations guide you to it, but the following are considerations:

 

a) we are not speed limited to the same extent

 

I suspect that, at the weight quoted, you would find it difficult to prove an "unladen weight" of less than 3050kg, so would already be limited in the UK to the lower speeds.

 

On the continent, where speeds are generally based on MAM, then the main constraint is motorways, and in the majority of countries an indicated 60mph is still possible there - is this such a constraint? (As you were asking about the likelihood of getting stopped and weighed, then I think the likelihood of getting stopped for (slightly) speeding on the continental motorways in a PVC is somewhat less, not that I'd encourage it).

 

b) we are not subject to weight related (3.5t) exclusions from some areas.

 

My experience is that many/most of the 3.5t limits on the Continent apply to lorries (limit sign with a picture of a truck) but not to motorhomes (there has been extensive discussion of this over the years, including official guidance from the Austrian and French authorities.) Absolute 3.5t limits do exist, but without the truck sign. Again, you are unlikely to get stopped anyway due to the nature of the vehicle. I don't see this as a great constraint.

 

c) we avoid the issues and costs around GoBox and tolls.

 

There is little doubt that this is/can be inconvenient, but it is not a "stopper". The GoBox system is somewhat more easy to navigate than it was when first implemented. It's true that tolls will cost you more in most countries (except possibly Switzerland), but the toll-free routes for getting just about anywhere have been well researched on here, so if cost is an issue, it is overcome-able (and non-motorway travel is much more interesting if you aren't in a hurry).

 

d) I understand from other threads that in the UK at least there is guidance for DVSA examiners that for private users there is a 5% “allowance” (175kg on a 3.5 plated van) which results in a verbal warning only. If we were to take “advantage” of that then our effective allowance would rise to something manageable i.e. 293kg. Is the practice in Europe similarly considerate?

I note from earlier threads that no-one has, apparently, ever been stopped or significantly sanctioned, just told to dump water or lose weight in some other way.

 

I don't believe there is any such approach on the Continent. Having said that, however, when you see how the French, Germans, etc. load up vans plated at 3500kg, (take a look in the garages of some next time you get a chance ;-) ) it would appear that large numbers of them are unconcerned about being overweight, so that might be a telling factor (and also guiding your dealer's advice on 3.5t). I can't say that I would like to take the chance except "on the margins".

 

Given that we are driving a 4.0t vehicle I do not believe actual safety limits are threatened.

 

I've commented similarly above, but it has no legal standing.

 

=================

 

I think you will find running your 'van at a maximum of 3500kg somewhat constraining. Patently content weight depends on what you choose to take away with you, but when I compare our contents with what I generally see, I think we run fairly light, but the weight still adds up.

 

My advice would be to plate at 4t, make sure you insure with someone who supplies an emergency driver, live with the constraints of being over 3.5t (they aren't dreadful, and many do), and enjoy the benefit of not having to worry at all about weight (both on the road and having to minimise your contents).

 

I've not downplated a vehicle in the UK, but, if it is practical to do so (i.e. you can weigh it and demonstrate there is sufficient loading margin) I don't believe it is a difficult process. Once you have real experience of your weights, and you find the constraints irk, or age gets in the way, then you can bite the bullet then.

[slowdriver]

As ever, a mine of useful information and advice. Many thanks.

I have decided to leave it at 4000kg and cross the "C1/down-plating to 3500kg" bridge as and when it becomes an issue. My main concerns now are:

 

1) To get it here safely avoiding unnecessary risks personally. (achieved by having it shipped)

2) To get the tech work and paperwork done. ( all outsourced)

3) To get it insured and on the road with all the security devices appropriate.

4) To discover, for the first time, my inner Zen, and thereby overcome my annoyance at not being allowed to drive anywhere on the continent for the forseable future because of possible, yet to be announced, COVID related, travel restrictions.

 

The last being the most challenging.

 

Many thanks again.

[Brian Kirby]

I agree with Derek.

 

Also, it is probable that, unless the manufacturer is notified of the change in MAM, its La Strada CoC will in any case still state its weight as it left the factory, which may cause trouble with DVSA's input to the registration process if the details in the all the export paperwork are not consistent.

 

I also agree with Robinhood's comments above.

 

Import it and register it as it is, and then weigh it with all loose equipment (check what is included in the definition of "unladen" removed but with it's fuel tank brimmed (so that you can later estimate, if necessary, whether the van would weigh less that 3,050kg were the tank empty), which will tell you whether it is below the UK specific 3,050kg threshold for reduced speed limits.

 

The legal definition of "unladen" is given in the table to regulation 3(2) of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. It is:

 

"Unladen weight means the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment."

 

I think (but could not find authoritative verification for), that the spare wheel and jack should be omitted when weighing "unladen", as there is no legal requirement to carry either, so they seem not to be included within the above "necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle".

 

If the weighbridge result is still tight, you can estimate the weight of fuel in its tank at 0.85kg per litre, and see if deducting some of that would get you under the bar. You can then judge if you could realistically get a weighbridge ticket recording the vehicle as under 3,050kg, by re-weighing it with less fuel on board at a later date. All you need is an official weighbridge ticket that shows the date, the vehicle registration number, and its actual weight at less than 3.050kg.

 

But, as above, when outside the UK it will be the plated MAM of the vehicle that will govern whether it is subject to lower speed limits.

[Derek Uzzell]

Assuming that slowdriver’s La Strada is left-hand-drive, these links should be of interest

 

https://tinyurl.com/y8afk8t6

 

https://tinyurl.com/y9ec4k7u

 

https://tinyurl.com/y2pcttu2

 

Because the motorhome will have a MAM exceeding 3500kg, its 'unladen weight’ should be entered on Form V55/4 but this datum will not appear in the vehicle’s documentation and I can’t see the DVLA being concerned with its exactitude. (Besides which, as any necessary technical alterations and the paperwork is being outsourced, that’s not going to be slowdriver’s problem.)

 

The only instance I can recall where the 3050kg weight-threshold bacame important was years ago where the owner of a large motorhome received a speeding ticket in the UK after being clocked by a an automated speed camera. The defence was that the motorhome had a sub-3050kg unladen weight and, if the authorities wanted to challenge that, the motorhome could be made available for them to confirm this by them making the vehicle compliant with the unladen-weight definition. The charge was dropped...

 

(I recently made a Brittany Ferries booking for early-September 2020. If BF passenger services are still unavailable by then, the company is going to be broke and, in any case, I can still change the booking if I so choose.)

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-10 1:51 PM

 

The only instance I can recall where the 3050kg weight-threshold bacame important was years ago where the owner of a large motorhome received a speeding ticket in the UK after being clocked by a an automated speed camera.....

 

In danger of going rather off-topic, but, there are at least two instances on here I can remember where prosecutions have been withdrawn in this circumstance:

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Beware-of-your-speed-limits/27935/61/

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Unladen-weight-payload-and-change-of-classification-/35478/

[slowdriver]

Many thanks for this Derek. As you mention I am outsourcing the paperwork completion.

 

However just for my own peace of mind, I have had a looked at the Guide to filling in the ‘Application for first vehicle tax and registration of a new motor vehicle’ (V55/4)

In there re Question 2 - Tax class there is reference to further guidance V355/1 ‘Notes about tax classes’ here:

 

https://tinyurl.com/ycm483rk

 

If my reading of this guidance is correct a 4 ton vehicle must be registered as Private/HGV Goods (vehicles, with a revenue weight in excess of 3,500kg, used privately.)

 

Does that correspond with your interpretation?

 

 

 

[Robinhood]

A motorcaravan above 3500kg will be in the PHG (Private Heavy Goods) taxation class, and for the time being, that will save you some money over and above plating and taxing it at 3500kg (in the PLG - Private Light Goods - category).

 

You interpret correctly.

 

For avoidance of confusion, the fact that it's taxed in a "Goods Vehicle" category is simply a matter of UK taxation convenience, the actual homologation category should/will be M1Sp (M1 Special) which denotes it as a passenger vehicle, albeit in a special class. This latter is what allows you to ignore certain

weight limit signs (e.g. 3.5t specific to trucks) as in every European country I've researched, these do not apply to passenger carrying vehicles (though you might be wary of any implications of such signage to its sutability for large vehicles ;-)).

 

If the weight limit sign is not a truck sign, but a standalone 3.5t limit, then that does apply absolutely.

 

(In Germany, for instance, a truck in a red circle is a 3.5t sign applying to goods vehicles, but not motorcaravans - as passenger vehicles. In Austria, it is more usual to see such limits as a 3.5t limit sign with an extra, truck sign attached - same applies).

[slowdriver]

Robinhood - 2020-06-10 4:16 PM

 

For avoidance of confusion, the fact that it's taxed in a "Goods Vehicle" category is simply a matter of UK taxation convenience, the actual homologation category should/will be M1Sp (M1 Special) which denotes it as a passenger vehicle, albeit in a special class. ......

 

Helpful, thank you.

When you say that

"the actual homologation category should/will be M1Sp (M1 Special) which denotes it as a passenger vehicle, albeit in a special class."

I have looked but cannot see on the V55-4 (Application-for-first-vehicle-tax-and-registration-of-a-new-motor-vehicle anywhere to record the homologation category. Am I looking in the wrong place, is it only recorded in the vehicle doumentation and not on V55?