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Weights


niktam

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Being a newbie on here I notice that there is a lot of discussion about vehicle weights so off I go. The published MIRO for my van gives me around a published 565kg of payload however it has been difficult to obtain details of exactly what is included within the given MIRO figure. Rest assured it is with the basic MH equipment and does not include any of the extras that originally came with the MH which is quite a list.

I do tow a large scooter on a trailer however the nose load is the only weight that interests me and that is 28kg on the bathroom scales when level as it is level when hitched up anyway.

 

Off to the weighbridge I went which was nice an level on with the front axle then on with both axles all with the trailer hitched up as that is how I drive it on the road. I didn't take the GTW as I'm not interested as it is well below the max GTW of 5500kg.

We have two bikes that weigh 35kg in total on a bike carrier to the rear and all the scooter gear is on the scooter on the trailer as well. I had full fuel, two gas bottles, Adblu full, empty toilet cassette and drained waste water and measured 40L fresh water which is behind the rear axle and the usual basic holiday stuff for a 5 day break.

 

You have to understand that we travel very light in the van:-

We are the only MH'er that doesn't have a BBQ. One hab batt. There are only the two of us 130kg total. We have no awning No outside furniture,step or waste water wheely. No dog No additional cooking appliances No separate walking clothing or footwear.

No electric bikes. The rear lounge of our van has bedding for two stored and clothes that's all. It is appreciated that weights past the rear axle are exaggerated by the distance past the rear axle.

The result 1440kg front 2020kg rear total = 3460kg. I always knew it would be an issue but this surprised me as I knew that we could never take passengers unless we took the car as well. If you haven't yet gone to the weighbridge go and check your weights with the MH in holiday mode!

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According to Elddiss Autoquest 2021 manual the standard weight is,

Mass in Running Order

The weight of your campervan as it leaves

the factory, as new with standard fixtures and

fittings, plus an allowance for the driver of

75kgs, the mass of the fuel (diesel) when the

tank is 90% full and an allowance of 12kg for

a full gas tank.

 

But the question is how can it have 6 belts and only have a MTPLM of 3500kg????

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My 2009 Skoda car has five 3-point seat belts, but on just one occasion have I driven it with (2) passengers in the rear seats.

 

My Rapido motorhome has four 3-point seat belts - 2 in the cab and 2 (convertible) designated travel seats in the habitation area. I’ve never carried passengers in the latter seats and never shall.

 

If you are asking about the logic of marketing a motorhome with a GVW of 3500kg and 2 belted cab seats, 4 belted designated travel seats in the habitation seats in the rear and sleeping accommodation for 6 people, this will undoubtedly meet UK legal standards. Using the motorhome legally is quite another matter, but that’s the buyer’s problem not the motorhome manufacturer’s.

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I always knew that 6 on board would be pushing it but the additional point was how the MIRO was measured as a great number of items are extras so will not have been included and eaten into the payload.

 

The cab AC and cruise

Microwave

Side awning

TV ariel

Solar panel

Hab battery

Full sized spare wheel

Second gas bottle

Reversing camera

 

Notwithstanding that I would have no difficulty in keeping the kerb weight under the magic 3050kg!

 

 

 

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You'll have to make a list of extras, including any passengers and add their wweights to the MIRO of 2932kg and see what's left.

 

Maximum Front Axle Weight: 1850kgs/36.33cwt

 

Maximum Rear Axle Weight: 2000kgs/39.28cwt

 

Maximum Towing Limit: 2000kgs/39.37cwt

 

Mass in Running Order (MIRO): 2932kgs/57.71cwt

 

Maximum User Payload: 568kgs/11.18cwt

 

M.T.P.L.M: 3500kgs/68.89cwt

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niktam - 2021-04-23 9:27 AM

 

...Notwithstanding that I would have no difficulty in keeping the kerb weight under the magic 3050kg!

The magic 3050kg (3.05 tonnes) weight only relates to UK speed limits and, in fact, it’s an “unladen weight” datum not a “kerb weight” one. This might seem to be splitting hairs, but unladen weight and mass in running order- MIRO (normally quoted in motorhome manufacturers’ literature and often called “kerb weight” by motorcaravanners) are not synonymous.

 

To quote from an old VOSA tester’s manual:

 

ULW Unladen Weight - The weight of a vehicle inclusive of the body and all parts which are ordinarily used with the vehicle when working on a road. Unladen weight does not include the weight of water or fuel used for the propulsion of the vehicle, or of loose tools and loose equipment.

 

A motorhome’s MIRO weight can usually be identified fairly easily from the manufacturer’s documentation and the formula used to calculate the MIRO datum is (normally) given there too. MIRO formulae have altered over the years and, nowadays, there’s no firm standard. A motorhome’s unladen weight has (to the best of my knowledge) never been quoted by a motorhome manufacturer and policing of UK speed limits using just the 3050kg figure would be a tricky thing to do.

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Derek Uzzell - 2021-04-23 11:09 AM

A motorhome’s unladen weight has (to the best of my knowledge) never been quoted by a motorhome manufacturer...

Beg to disagree with you there Derek but AutoTrail used to quote an unladen weight figure in their sales brochures, although for the 'base' spec and you then had to add/subtract figures quoted for extra equipment, etc.

 

eg The brochure for our 2004 model clearly quotes the base Cheyenne 632 model as 2,982 kg for our Merc based variant.

 

https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/file/uploads/raw/document/2019/09/13/12/43/auto-trail-2004-brochure.pdf

 

But I agree that they now only quote MIRO and GVW/GTW.

 

Keith.

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Although the 2004 Auto-Trail brochure you’ve provided a link to does (on Pages 26-27) include “unladen mass” values, there’s a footnote saying "Note: Unladen mass includes the weight of the driver and 90% full of fuel (Total weight 140 kg)”. This conflicts with the VOSA definition I quoted in my last posting and is the type of minimalistic formula UK motorhome manufacturers were fond of in the early 2000s when they gave MIRO weights that flattered the vehicle’s usable payload.

 

This 2014 forum thread discussed (Auto-Trail) unladen weight

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Autotrail-Unladen-Weight/36855/

 

This current gov.uk link defines “unladen weight” as not including fuel

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained

 

though this webpage

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Glossary:Unladen_vehicle_weight

 

advises that the term may include driver and fuel allowances depending on national practice.

 

There are more ‘weight’ definitons here

 

https://app.croneri.co.uk/topics/vehicle-weights-and-weight-limits/employer-factsheet-vehicle-weight-definitions

 

with ‘kerbside weight’ defined as follows:

 

The weight of the vehicle unladen and carrying no persons, but with a full tank of fuel and adequate supply of other liquids incidental to its propulsion, and any loose tools or equipment with which it is normally equipped, but not with the driver.

 

It therefore equates to the unladen weight plus the weight of a tank of fuel.

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stevec176 - 2021-04-22 11:02 PM

According to Elddiss Autoquest 2021 manual the standard weight is,

Mass in Running Order

The weight of your campervan as it leaves

the factory, as new with standard fixtures and

fittings, plus an allowance for the driver of

75kgs, the mass of the fuel (diesel) when the

tank is 90% full and an allowance of 12kg for

a full gas tank.

But the question is how can it have 6 belts and only have a MTPLM of 3500kg????

Well, I cheated and looked at the 2017 Autoquest Handbook, :-D which quotes MIRO as follows:

Mass in Running Order.

The weight of your motorhome as it leaves the factory, as new with standard fixtures and fittings, plus an allowance for the driver of 75kgs, the mass of the fuel (diesel) when the tank is full and an allowance of 10kg per gas bottle, the number of gas bottles equal to the number of connections provided at the regulator. (My bold to emphasise differences.)

 

I was unable to find any reference to whether the fresh water tank (or waste tank, Thetford flush tank, or toilet cassette, should be full, empty, or anywhere between, when driving, which seems to leave the owner to assume that, as water is not included in the MIRO definition, any water carried in whatever container counts against payload. Possibly, if driven without those 40 litres the rear axle would just scrape under its load limit. As it is, it is 20kg overloaded. However, the 2021 technical section of the on-line brochure carries this note: Note 6: Your Motorhome weights have been calculated with all water tanks empty and you are recommend to travel with all water tanks empty. I could not find this information repeated in the 2021 Handbook.

 

A further factor that has not been mentioned, and will definitely bear on rear axle load, is the tow-bar. Motorhome two-bars are heavy items, and are inevitably behind the rear axle so having a disproportionate impact on rear axle load.

 

This is another six berth motorhome on a 3,500kg chassis, which again illustrates the extreme payload restrictions such large vans impose on their owners. I could not find no mention of chassis upgrades as options.

 

The website lists the following options as currently applicable to the Autoquest 196:

Optional Extras

2021 Season Options (RRP)

Lux pack - including air conditioning, passenger airbag, cruise control - £1218

Alarm system - £322

Tracker - £280

Witter tow bar (Retailer Fit) - £624 #

Cab blinds - £450

Microwave oven - £212

Winter pack - tank heaters for fresh and waste water plus fridge vent covers - £322

Fiamma Pro bike rack - 2 bikes - £235 #

Fiamma Pro bike rack - 4 bikes - £328 #

Rear view system - £365

Additional shelving pack (3 additional shelves and fixings for overhead lockers - Retailer fit) - £42 #

Alloy wheels - £650

BBQ point - £105

230V External Socket - £60

Solar Panel - £535 #

Omnivent in lieu of 400mm rooflight - £225

Roll out Awning - £550 #

Hypnos Mattress (150, 155, 185, 194) - £224

Co-ordinated Fixed Bed Cover Set (150, 155, 185, 194) - £294

The RRP for any Retailer fit option is for the part only and may be subject to additional labour charges. Please discuss with your supplying Retailer at point of order.

# Retailer fit options will reduce the overall payload available to the end user and will increase the overall dimensions of the vehicle. Message overall? You're on your own, kid!! Well, you and the dealer, who should be advising what effect those options would have on user payload. If Elddis can quote prices, one would expect them to be able to quote weights. So, why don't they?

 

Final point. There used to be a 5% upward tolerance quoted for motorhome weights, but I did not find this. It may not sound much, but 5% of 2.932kg is 146kg, which would also come off the user payload. Heads I win, tails you lose??

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I forgot about the alloys which were another extra as it is assumed that they will be lighter than steel but the alloy is thicker to achieve the 1120kg load so more than likely heavier than the original steel. They were on the MH when I bought it and I also have to declare them for insurance purposes and the previous owner could never have put the original steel spare on as the alloys bolts wouldn't fit properly.
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