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reversing camera question
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userbreakaleg
Posted: 7 January 2022 12:24 PM
Subject: reversing camera question
 
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Morning All,
Looking for your opinion.
First a bit of background.

Collected my 21 Nuevo in May this year and it soon became obvious that the fitted camera was more of a rear view camera than a reversing camera.

Where I live parking space is at a premium and very often by the time that I have parked up there is less that three inches to spare back and front.

The auto sleeper fitted camera the car behind disappeared from view with about two feet left to travel.

So I decided to have a twin lens camera fitted the same as I have had on my last two vans spread over fifteen years.

Really improved things.

However (and this is the question) when I happened to be driving at night (pitch black) all I had on the monitor was a blinding white light so bright I had to turn the monitor off as it was really distracting to drive.
when reversing on a cl it was no better.

After a conversation with the agents who fitted it they suggested that it could be the total darkness and to try it on a streetlight lit road, which I did.

The result was marginally better but only after turning the brightness down to zero, not someting I would want to have to do.

Another phone call to the agent and he said that they are all like this, I suggested that maybe the infrared lights may not be working he argued that this could sometimes make matters worse.

I have since checked the infrareds and they do light up.

I know I have had twin lens cameras for fifteen years but I really can't remember if I have driven the van in the dark in that time, I am guessing that if I did, it would be more likely in the summer months than the depths of winter and possibly along main roads where street lighting is brighter than where I live.

I also wonder if the led rear lights on the Nuevo are affecting things? especially when in reverse as the camera is looking down and the reversing lights are on.

Any thoughts.

Sorry it's a long post.
Pete
usercolin
Posted: 7 January 2022 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 


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Are you saying the screen is just bright light with no details, or so bright as to be difficult to use?
I can't specifically talk about rear vision camera's, but things like sat navs have a night mode as they will be so bright as to be distracting, the instrument lighting on one of my cars is similar.


Edited by colin 2022-01-07 1:12 PM
userbreakaleg
Posted: 7 January 2022 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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Hi Colin,
just bright with no detail, I did try it at home with some streetlights but had to turn the brightness down to zero but the image was quite poor.
Ihave a feeling that the led's on the rear of the van may be making things worse as cameras don't seem to like the light that they produce.
pete
userColinM50
Posted: 7 January 2022 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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I could be writing absolute rubbish now, not for the first time I hear you say.

I fitted a second number plate camera on my M/H and there was one cable that goes to the screen, it was all wired in easily, and a second +v and -ve cable that was labeled IR lights. I never did get round to fitting this one and the camera works excellent in all light conditions so I query the point of the second cable. It's supposed to be wired into the reversing light wire presumably so the IR lights only come on when the van's in reverse gear? On the number plate surround itself there's five small IR lights (I think) but since it all works OK as-is I've left that extra cable disconnected. Dunno if or how this helps the OP?
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 7 January 2022 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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Both of my last two motorhomes had Waeco CAM50 reversing cameras that I used as a 'rear-view mirror'. Both cameras had LEDs to provide after-dark vision and, when driving at night, I needed to turn the camera off as the image was completely swamped by the light of the headlamps of vehicles approaching from behind the motorhome.

These cameras are intended to provide a usable image at night when the motorhome is being reversed slowly in low-light conditions. What they will not do is provide a similar image when headlamps are shining directly into the camera's lens. A similar thing is likely to occur when the camera is being used as a rear-view mirror during the day and the sun is low in the sky behind the motorhome.

What I find odd is that you had the problem all the time at night in pitch-black conditions and also when reversing on a CL.

What camera/monitor system did you have retro-fitted? As the camera's two lenses produce acceptable images in daylight, If the vendor says that what you are experiencing is normal for that system at night, this may well be the case.
userbreakaleg
Posted: 7 January 2022 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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Hi All,
Thanks for all your replies, as I say it was worse in the pitch black lanes around Ludlow, the Agent who fitted it has got back to me and shown me a reply from his supplier.
The suggest that it could be oil, either from fingers during fitting/ from rain water (it dose seem to suck up rain water)
Also suggest it could be the angle it's set at as a small change can make a big difference, my problem is having mobility problems I won't be able to get up any steps to sort it.

My wife is going to give the glass covering the lens a good clean and we will see if there is an improvement.

Pete
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 7 January 2022 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


breakaleg - 2022-01-07 1:38 PM
Hi Colin,
just bright with no detail, I did try it at home with some streetlights but had to turn the brightness down to zero but the image was quite poor.
Ihave a feeling that the led's on the rear of the van may be making things worse as cameras don't seem to like the light that they produce.
pete

Pete, It might help if you were able to say what make and model reversing camera you have..

One thing strikes me. You describe the set up as a "reversing camera". But you say you can't see what is immediately behind your van, and that what you have appears to be a rear view camera. What did you ask the installer to fit, and what does his invoice say he fitted?

I ask, because if what he fitted is a rear view (usually a relatively normal lens angle looking predominantly at following traffic) camera, and you asked him to fit a reversing (usually a relatively wide angle lens predominantly looking down) camera, then he hasn't fitted what you asked for and you would have good cause to ask him to replace what you have with what you wanted, or to give you your money back (and if he were to insist on removing what he has fitted, to make good any damage (screw/cable holes etc.) in so doing.

On camera systems, each of our vans has had one. The first was a "Dave Newell special" comprising a rear view only camera, monitor and necessary connecting cables, the next two were Waeco twin lens cameras plus monitor systems from Conrad Anderson, based around the (now Dometic branded) twin lens CAM 44. The present one is based around a Dometic CAM35 twin, which again is a twin lens reversing/rear view set up.

In all cases the low light rear view at night has been excellent, as has the reversing view. The same is true in long road tunnels. Colour rendition is retained, although somewhat reduced in low light, and general contrast and definition remain excellent.

This leads me to think that, aside from "operator error" there is probably a fault in your system: possibly a miss-match in the cabling between camera and monitor (the individual wire coding varies between makes, so a Bloggs camera does not necessarily speak the same language as a Jones monitor), or camera and monitor are incompatible, or the equipment installed is not up to the job. Hence the reason for asking about make and model.

The best starting point might be to take the van back to the installer after dark (not too difficult at present!), demonstrate the fault, and then leave them to work out what is wrong.
usercolin
Posted: 7 January 2022 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 


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Just thought of something, is there something the IR might reflect from, bike rack or similar? On my NV sight have to be very careful to eliminate any source of reflection, even it it's not obviously in line of sight, but then they have a IR filter that moves out of way for use with IR.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 7 January 2022 6:13 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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Brian Kirby - 2022-01-07 3:00 PM

...One thing strikes me. You describe the set up as a "reversing camera". But you say you can't see what is immediately behind your van, and that what you have appears to be a rear view camera. What did you ask the installer to fit, and what does his invoice say he fitted?...



Brian

I think you are misinterpreting Pete's first posting.

The specification of a 2021 A-S "Nuevo" (with Premium Pack) includes a single-lens reversing camera and it was the downwards 'view' provided by this camera that Pete was unhappy with originally.

"Collected my 21 Nuevo in May this year and it soon became obvious that the fitted camera was more of a rear view camera than a reversing camera."

He subsequently had that camera replaced with a twin-lens camera that performs badly at night.

If Pete thinks that the motorhome's rear lights or reversing lights might be contributing to the problem, experimenting by covering those lights (when the motorhome is stationary!) should confirm if that's the case.

If just the camera has been swapped, there may now be a compatibility issue between the replacement camera and the original monitor. I'm doubtful that muck on the lenses is causing the present nighttime problem, particularly as the problem affects both of the camera's modes. Similarly, as the problem occurs when the camera is 'looking back' and 'looking down, I can't see that altering the camera angle is going to make any difference. As you say, the issue needs looking at by the agent that fitted the new camera.

(I can't find really clear photos of a 2021 Nuevo's bum, but the attached photos below show that the model's rear panel is significantly 'sculptured'. Consequently the position of the A-S-fitted reversing camera (below the high-level brake light) may mean that, even when the camera's aim is carefully adjusted, an image right up to the rear 'bumper' will not be obtainable.)



(nuevo.jpg)



(nuevo2.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments nuevo.jpg (36KB - 9 downloads)
Attachments nuevo2.jpg (35KB - 5 downloads)
userbreakaleg
Posted: 8 January 2022 10:29 AM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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Morning All,
Thank you for your thoughts,
Brian, it is the original auto sleeper camera that I changed, as it couldn't be adjusted, unfortunatly I don't know the make of the new one as it was fitted and I didn't receive any paper work.

It is a twin camera I.E Two cameras fitted in a bracket) fairly common.

The Over mirror monitor came with it so a matching pair.

The agent who fitted it is quite a distance from home, he contacted the supplier who looked at some photos that I provided and in his opinion it is possibly oil spots, either from fingers at some stage as the leds pick up on oil and reflect it back into the lens or from rain water sucked up when driving and this did occur when we were away (oil in rain water)

He also said, just a slight angle adjustment can make a big difference to how much light is picked up, I feel that the rear view lens needs lifting as I can't see as far back as I could with the last camera, as you can see from the up loaded picture of the rear of the Nuevo the led light cluster is quite big and I guess quite light by comparison to other vans.

He also said that if this didn't work they would happily exchange the camera.

My problem is finding someone to do the adjustment for me as having a disability I an not very stable on steps.

Pete
userbreakaleg
Posted: 8 January 2022 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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Just add,
I will try covering the led lights up and see what happens.

when in reverse I can see the fixings for the bike rack and this allows me to reverse up to about two inch's to an object.

The camera during daylight is brilliant, if it does turn out to be the rear lights, I might have a reversing beeper system fitted.
To be honest, I am not out in the van at night very often, we got caught out on the night of discovery as it was pitch black at around five thirty.
Pete
usercolin
Posted: 8 January 2022 12:17 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 


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breakaleg - 2022-01-08 10:47 AM
when in reverse I can see the fixings for the bike rack and this allows me to reverse up to about two inch's to an object.
Pete


This is what I posted about earlier, although the bike rack fixings look a decent amount away from camera. Knowing how reflected IR can affect NV sights, I'd try hanging a dark non reflective cloth down back of van and see if things improved, it might even be the rear lights which are causing the problem.
userbreakaleg
Posted: 8 January 2022 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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Hi Colin,
This my thoughts as well, the rear lights are Led and quite bright and cameras don't seem to like them.
Will give it a go, neighbours might think that I am going mad though. lol

It may have been the same on the last van with normal lights as I don't ever remember going out in as much darkness as the last time, usually from spring through to autumn it is quite a bit lighter in general.
Pete
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 8 January 2022 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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This 2008 forum thread may be of interest

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Rear-view-camera-glare/14159/

There are online complaints about the LED tail-lights of cars causing problems with reversing camera images at night, so this MIGHT be an issue in this case.

It might be worth asking on the A-S forum whether there are similar problems at night with the factory-fitted reversing camera system now used by A-S.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 8 January 2022 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Derek Uzzell - 2022-01-07 6:13 PM
Brian Kirby - 2022-01-07 3:00 PM
...One thing strikes me. You describe the set up as a "reversing camera". But you say you can't see what is immediately behind your van, and that what you have appears to be a rear view camera. What did you ask the installer to fit, and what does his invoice say he fitted?...

Brian
I think you are misinterpreting Pete's first posting.
The specification of a 2021 A-S "Nuevo" (with Premium Pack) includes a single-lens reversing camera and it was the downwards 'view' provided by this camera that Pete was unhappy with originally.
"Collected my 21 Nuevo in May this year and it soon became obvious that the fitted camera was more of a rear view camera than a reversing camera."
He subsequently had that camera replaced with a twin-lens camera that performs badly at night....................................

Yes, you're right Derek. I was unaware that the camera in question was a factory fit installation, and had assumed an after-market installation by a third party. I took Pete's reference to "the agent", to mean the agent for the rear view camera, and not the A-S dealer, so apologies Pete for that misunderstanding.

Pete has since clarified that monitor plus camera were changed, so I'm assuming that new connecting cable between camera and monitor must also have been supplied and installed. If so, that should eliminate any incompatibility problems. I had some difficulty identifying the camera in the pictures, but there seems to be a fairly small item projecting just below what appears to be a transparent high level brake light enclosure.

However, in view of the presence of that enclosure (which seems a very elaborate provision for what should already be a fully weatherproof brake light), and because the enclosure appears also to wrap around to the underside of the rear "spoiler", to give a downward view, I wonder if the enclosure also house the camera?

Perhaps Pete should have words with Auto-Sleepers, explain the problem (plus the change to the camera to rectify the poor reversing view) to them and see what they have to say. Pete doesn't say whether the original camera was similarly defective at night - presumably because he didn't try reversing at night. But at present he is being confronted with two unacceptable options: a reversing camera that is unfit for purpose because it fails to show the area immediately behind his van, or a twin lens rear view/reversing installation, with independent monitor, that can't be used after dark! Not quite what you expect on a new van with a substantial price tag!
userbreakaleg
Posted: 9 January 2022 5:07 AM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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Morning Brian and Derek,

The camera in the pictures is the original Auto Sleeper camera ?fitment, someone else kindly added the photo.

The original Camera wasn't a lot of use during the day, you couldn't see when you were reversing as any obstruction disappeared from view when you still had at least two foot to travel also, as you were driving along the monitor was difficult to view and should the sun be shining it would completely swamp the screen, you had to turn the monitor on every time you started the engine.

The new one at least doesn't suffer from the above and is very clear at al times except in the dark.

Today, my wife is going to clean the lens to remove any possible oily deposits as suggested by the supplier of the camera and tonight we are going to cover the rear led clusters.

If it does turn out to be the led clusters apart from altering the camera angles slightly as suggested by the camera supplier I guess I will have to live with it.

I will wait until spring if that's the case to see if more ambient summer light makes a difference and if not, will consider having reversing sensors fitted for the few occasions that i end up driving in the dark.

Many thanks
Pete
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 9 January 2022 9:45 AM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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These 2 forum threads may be of interest

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Reversing-camera/41281/

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Reversing-Cameras-at-night/22485/

Forum member "AliB" has 'trader' expertise regarding reversing camera systems. His most recent forum logon was on 8 December 2021, so - if he notices this thread - he may be able to advise.
userbreakaleg
Posted: 11 January 2022 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: reversing camera question
 
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Morning All,

Just an update.

We cleaned the camera lenses firstly with the cleaner you use to clean a computer screen and a microfiber cloth then we had to wait until it went dark and the result was pretty impressive the rear view camera you could now see all of the road behind us but the reversing camera, although quite clear but now had fingerprints all over the lens and a great big thumb print in the middle of the lens.

we done them again using the cleaner wipes you can get to clean your reading glasses (w5 from Aldi I think) other wipes are available. lol.
they are both crystal clear now.

I must admit that I was skeptical that just cleaning them would work but it has done a grand job.

We did try covering the LED light cluster up but it didn't make a scrap of difference.

Thank you for all your help.
Pete
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