knaus01 Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 His all my first post lol So I have a truma combi boiler in my knaus 01 motorhome Problem is when I swith on the boiler for air and water it heats up for about 20mins then cuts out and thereafter each time I switch it back on it only stays on for a minute then knocks off ? Over the christmas I stayed overnight in the cold and turned it on for few hours to toast up the quilts lol it worked fine then so anyone know what the problem is now .thank you. Ps hello all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Welcome to the forum. My immediate thought about your problem is that perhaps it is either low gas pressure or the leisure battery is getting a bit low So, first check if your gas bottle is running out and secondly check the leisure battery voltage. Anything below about 11.8 volt will send the system into default mode. Best to check the simple things first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken the kontiki Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Welcome Knaus01 :-) Is the problem when on gas or EHU (240v) or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Are you using Butane (blue bottles) or Propane(Red). If Butane (blue) then it may just be the cylinders are too cold as Butane will not work well in cold temperatures. When drawing of a lot of gas bottles get colder and pressure drops right off. The way around it is while you have pressure is to boil a kettle and fill a hot water bottle and slap it against the cylinder. Even just a milk bottle filled with hot (not boiling) and placed next to cylinder will help. Then hopefully eventually heat inside the van works its way through to gas locker and warms the gas cylinder enough. Now after typing all this you will probably tell us you are using propane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 knaus01 - 2016-01-16 6:28 PM ...So I have a truma combi boiler in my knaus 01 motorhome... Are you referring to a motohome made in 2001, please? If so, then the heater’s age would be perhaps be significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Assuming that the heater is a Trumatic C-Series appliance (rather than a later “Combi” model) trouble-shooting guidance can be found here: https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma-Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/30_000/34000_95000.pdf Except for the C-6002EH model, Trumatic C-Series appliances could not heat air via 230V mains electricity. A 230V water-heating capability was present on “EL” versions (C-3402EL, C-4000EL, C-6002EL) but this was completely separate from the gas-heating system and a failure of gas operation should not affect 230V operation and vice versa. In principle, the charge-state of the 12V battery providing power to a Trumatic C needs to be pretty low to prevent the heater operating (Truma suggests less than 10.5V) but voltage-drop from a long thin cable-run from battery to heater would have an impact. The red monitor lamp on the heater’s control-panel should flash if the battery voltage is inadequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Robbo - 2016-01-16 7:57 PM Welcome to the forum. My immediate thought about your problem is that perhaps it is either low gas pressure or the leisure battery is getting a bit low So, first check if your gas bottle is running out and secondly check the leisure battery voltage. Anything below about 11.8 volt will send the system into default mode. Best to check the simple things first. hi robbo thanks for ur suggestions and im going to check if the gas is too low ill put in a fresh one and let u no thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 ken the kontiki - 2016-01-16 10:06 PM Welcome Knaus01 :-) Is the problem when on gas or EHU (240v) or both? without sounding stupid here i had it ehu and when i turned on the switch to heating water and blow air as this is the only option for blow air i can hear the pilot light igniting but i have the leisure battery switched off i also tried it in reverse with leisure battery on and it seems to be the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Brambles - 2016-01-17 12:54 AM Are you using Butane (blue bottles) or Propane(Red). If Butane (blue) then it may just be the cylinders are too cold as Butane will not work well in cold temperatures. When drawing of a lot of gas bottles get colder and pressure drops right off. The way around it is while you have pressure is to boil a kettle and fill a hot water bottle and slap it against the cylinder. Even just a milk bottle filled with hot (not boiling) and placed next to cylinder will help. Then hopefully eventually heat inside the van works its way through to gas locker and warms the gas cylinder enough. Now after typing all this you will probably tell us you are using propane! lol im on the orange bottle calour gas ill find out if its butanae or propane lol sorry im new to this .....lol im a bit technical minded and handy but i dont want to go messing with things i no nothing about and i will try ur suggestions thank you ill post a pic if i can of the gas and the boiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-01-17 9:23 AM knaus01 - 2016-01-16 6:28 PM ...So I have a truma combi boiler in my knaus 01 motorhome... Are you referring to a motohome made in 2001, please? If so, then the heater’s age would be perhaps be significant. yes the motorhome was built in 01 thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-01-17 12:14 PM Assuming that the heater is a Trumatic C-Series appliance (rather than a later “Combi” model) trouble-shooting guidance can be found here: https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma-Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/30_000/34000_95000.pdf Except for the C-6002EH model, Trumatic C-Series appliances could not heat air via 230V mains electricity. A 230V water-heating capability was present on “EL” versions (C-3402EL, C-4000EL, C-6002EL) but this was completely separate from the gas-heating system and a failure of gas operation should not affect 230V operation and vice versa. In principle, the charge-state of the 12V battery providing power to a Trumatic C needs to be pretty low to prevent the heater operating (Truma suggests less than 10.5V) but voltage-drop from a long thin cable-run from battery to heater would have an impact. The red monitor lamp on the heater’s control-panel should flash if the battery voltage is inadequate. hi derek it doesnt flash it just turns red ill post a ic and have a look at ur suggestions thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 hope these pics help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 knaus01 - 2016-01-17 3:58 PM hope these pics help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken the kontiki Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Does this thread over on MH Facts shed any light? http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/220-water-sanitation-heating/168905-trumatic-experience.html I assume the cooker fires up on gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Looks like problem is you are using Butane gas and this is the issue in very cold weather. (Irish Calor Kosangas bottle??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Brambles - 2016-01-17 4:51 PM Looks like problem is you are using Butane gas and this is the issue in very cold weather. (Irish Calor Kosangas bottle??) Given the fixed red light as described (which normally indicates gas supply problems), the use of Butane (which it certainly appears to be), and the possibility of low temperatures, I would think it is likely to be a "Butane use" problem. (though the bottles may be getting empty, slightly dropping the pressure). Butane ceases to gas at around 4C, and drawing a good amount off (as a heater would do) can drop the bottle temperature a bit below ambient. It has certainly been below this level in Eire on 15th/16th according to weather forecasts, so my guess would be a change to Propane is required. OP should test again during a reasonably warm daytime spell, and see if the problem has "disappeared". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Robinhood - 2016-01-17 5:37 PM OP should test again during a reasonably warm daytime spell, and see if the problem has "disappeared". Or warm the cylinder up indoors for a few hours (or preferably overnight) and then try again. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Keithl - 2016-01-17 5:45 PM Robinhood - 2016-01-17 5:37 PM OP should test again during a reasonably warm daytime spell, and see if the problem has "disappeared". Or warm the cylinder up indoors for a few hours (or preferably overnight) and then try again. Keith. or try with a propane bottle....AND try on ehu to check the boiler is working on other sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Hi all Thanks for all the help and links I'm in the camper now sitting here timing and checking see when it goes off the gas cylinder is fairly full so I'll try the propane someday when I get a chance.thanks for the link it was very informative .its a bit warmer here now so I'm checking to see how long it stays on .irish calour gas lol yes I'm from south ireland lol so I. gonna sit back watvh the tv and wait for dinner lol I may aswell be away lol thanks again and I will try everything so I'll keep ye posted :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Damn thought issue was solved it wad on for hour and half this time then knocked off with red light on again so I'll switch it on again and sit and see how long the second run takes Second run 4 min Third run 10 min I'll try the propane next time is it ok to just change from butane to propane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 knaus01 - 2016-01-17 8:58 PM Damn thought issue was solved it wad on for hour and half this time then knocked off with red light on again so I'll switch it on again and sit and see how long the second run takes Second run 4 min Third run 10 min I'll try the propane next time is it ok to just change from butane to propane What temperature is it outside, and have you checked temp of gas cylinder with your hand to see is it is at freezing temperatures. The other thing is to try lighting your hob and see if it is burning rather low. It is a pretty good indication of what gas pressure you have by the height of the flame. It is also possible the gas regulator you have on the cylinder is also freezing up, especially if you have damp in it. They can get pretty cold because of the expansion of flowing gas inside them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Brambles - 2016-01-17 9:19 PM knaus01 - 2016-01-17 8:58 PM Damn thought issue was solved it wad on for hour and half this time then knocked off with red light on again so I'll switch it on again and sit and see how long the second run takes Second run 4 min Third run 10 min I'll try the propane next time is it ok to just change from butane to propane What temperature is it outside, and have you checked temp of gas cylinder with your hand to see is it is at freezing temperatures. The other thing is to try lighting your hob and see if it is burning rather low. It is a pretty good indication of what gas pressure you have by the height of the flame. It is also possible the gas regulator you have on the cylinder is also freezing up, especially if you have damp in it. They can get pretty cold because of the expansion of flowing gas inside them. stephzz101 Bout 5 degrees outside gas bottle is cold and burners are flaming as usual good strong burn and plenty weight in the bottle don't really no wat temp the bottle is as I have no way to find out right now thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytw Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 If it is 5 degrees and you are on Butane then I would respectfully suggest that any further diagnosis is futile. I have this problem all of the time with a portable gas heater in my workshop. In cold weather the heater will light then after 10 mins it will all but go out. I can improve the situation by shaking the bottle. After a while I usually give up and turn it off. andytw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knaus01 Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Thanks but I not one for givin up lol would a lagging jacket work haha anyway if it is the cold is it ok to go from butane to propane by just changing connection and bottle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Your symptoms are still compliant with the gas draw required for heating dropping the temperature and butane pressure enough for the heater to cut out. The usual stance on lagging the bottle is that it will make it worse, rather than better. Drawing off gas (at a rate required for heating) has a cooling effect on the bottle, and lagging it keeps this cooling effect in (at least, that is the theory). Unless it has been modified, your 'van pre-dates bulkhead regulators (which would require a replacement pigtail, as well as a propane bottle, to use propane), it is thus likely to use bottle-top regulators, and you will need an appropriate bottle-top propane regulator (which runs at a slightly different pressure, and has a different connection to your existing one). From your picture it looks like your existing regulator is clamped to the low-pressure hose, so it should be easy to replace. If the Irish propane connection is POL, as in the UK, and most EU, then be aware that the regulator screws onto the propane bottle with a RH (reverse) thread. I'm almost 100% sure your problems come from using butane, but in the current temperatures you're experiencing, you should be using propane whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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