Alanb
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Posts posted by Alanb
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On 01/05/2024 at 11:45, Fred Duck said:
Since starting to use our van again in March, an issue has arisen whereby whenever the clutch pedal is depressed, the engine won't rev above about 2500rpm. Not, really, an issue when driving normally but steep hill starts (as happened last week) are particularly difficult. Our van is 2010 and I can find details of a clutch pedal position sensor on later models but can't find anything for our age of van. I can replicate what happens by holding the revs steady, in neutral, at 4000 and then depressing the clutch pedal whereupon the revs drop to 2500. Releasing the clutch leads to the revs rising back to 4000. Any ideas?
FD
The 2.2 Puma engine uses a "Visteon 347" ECU. The pinout for this controller shows the clutch pedal switch (sensor) connected to Connector B, pin G3.
My first thoughts for a cure, would be to check that the switch is not sticking. However I cannot currently offer a theory as to why it should cause the problem posted.
Alan
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3 hours ago, Keithl said:
Have you checked your leisure battery voltage? It sounds like it is either flat or has a blown fuse. Do all the interior 12 volt lights work?
Keith.
2 hours ago, Madcow said:Hi Keith, we have lithium leisure batteries showing 100% and the lights are working on 12v. Thank you.
YES, but please confirm that the lights work when not on EHU, and the inverter is not running.
I agree with Keith's suggestion of a blown main battery fuse. It seems possible that the inverter is providing power for a habitation battery charger, which it should not do . This charger could then supply the 12V loads, which are on the load side of the fuse, as distinct from the the battery side of the fuse. Depending on inverter rating, it may well have its own fuse direct from the habitation battery.
It is not unusual for a radio to be powered from the habitation battery in order to avoid draining the starter battery. Likewise I would expect the step to be powered from the habitation battery.
If I am correct in my hypothesis, which is made from the small amount of date provided, there will be no mains charging of the habitation (lithium) battery. Charging while driving via a B2B charger could still be possible, if it is connected to the battery via a discrete fuse,
Alan
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Be warned, Skye is the "Misty Isle", which is a polite way of saying that it rains a lot. Also the midges can be fearsome, so do not forget the midge repellant.
Alan
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I am not fully conversant with post 2006 models. I understand that on the x250 model the sidelights are controlled by the body computer module. Communication between the light stalk switch and the BCM uses resistive coding. You may have faulty stalk switch.
Alan
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The fact that the question has been asked, suggests that the OP's DIY skills may be limited. While batteries may appear to be innocuos, they can store a large amount of energy. The habitation battery fuse must be relocated to a position close to the battery, and the existing cabling extended, or prefferably replaced, with suitably sized cables. Given that a lithium habitation battery is proposed, I would suggest 16 sq mm, as a minimum. With consideration being given to 25 sq mm.
Changing to a lithium battery is not a simple switch, if full benefits are to be obtained. The existing mains charger may not have a lithium profile, and to gain maximum charging rate from, and to protect the alternator, a B2B charger should be fitted. If the maximum recharge rate is required, then an alternator with a higher output rating may be required. In this context I have seen mention that alternators are rated at peak current, and not continuous current, which is what a lithium battery could draw.
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4 hours ago, John52 said:
Do you mean mounting a bigger alternator would require some ingenuity? If its anything like the later models access is very difficult and only possible from underneath. Although Fiat do list an optional 220 amp alternator for X2/90 ambulances etc. Should be possible to see the rating plate from underneath with an endoscope. I got one as a Lidl special offer. Its awkward to use, particularly steering the tiny camera on the end of the long stiff cable, but it does enable you to see things you couldn't see without dismantling. One of those things you will probably never use, but could be very useful sometime.
Thanks for confirming what I thought was the alternator output on earlier models
No, I confirm B2B, which is a 20A rated CTEK, and was fitted some years ago, when there were fewer alternatives available. The 20A rating matches the recommended C/10 charging rate for 2x100Ah FLA batteries. (The fridge 12V supply is diverted so as not to draw power via the B2B.)
The purchase of an inexpensive endoscope is on my bucket list. Unfortunately until recently there was no local Lidl, and the centre aisle of Aldi is becoming less interesting.
Alan
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When I wanted to check the rating of the alternator on my 2.8jtd, I found the alternator label difficult to read. I took a photo and enlarged the image. The rating of the OEM alternator on my 2.8jtd is 90A. As posted by @John52 above, more recent models than my x244 have higher rated alternators.
If I was to fit a lithium battery, and take advantage of the faster recharge times offered by lithium batteries, I would also have to replace the allternator, and the B2B, which being an older version, does not have a lithium setting. Mounting a larger B2B, in the confines of my PVC, would require some igenuity.
Alan
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48 minutes ago, mtravel said:
I agree but it's one thing to be in an open space, another in the town where the wind passes between the buildings. Seeing is believing, have you ever heard of Bernoulli's principle ?
Max
In a word yes. Perhaps the most graphic illustration was the complete collapse of a newly constructed cooling tower at Ferrybridge "C" power station in UK. Two staggered rows of cooling towers and wind came through a gap to reach one of the towers. It may have set up a wine glass type of oscillation as well. The tower collapsed, mainly within itself. Result a massive programme to thicken walls of similar towers.
Alan
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1 hour ago, david lloyd said:
John, it has not been mentioned but, while you are contemplating which batteries to replace the Banners with, you may also wish to consider whether you want to carry on with flooded batteries that require regular checking and topping up (many Banner batteries are of this type) or now go for a maintenance free type such as Varta or Yuasa - I have used both and had excellent results. I once had a vehicle with the leisure batteries beneath the front seats. Could often smell battery fumes and investigating further found them to be Banner wet acid but the only way to top them up was to remove the seats. Never used Banner since.
David
Yes David,
My PVC has that configuration. However I did choose Banner because they could be topped up, so can't complain except to mention that they were rather thirsty.
The ABS dual pupose battery that I linked to previously is sealed, and has the correct terminal orientation.
@johnlcPlease not that I made a typographical error in my previous post regarding ABS batteries. Their Advanced XD85 is only 257mm long, and not 275mm as previously posted. Also their height is quoted at 220mm, which could be too high.
I remember carefully checking the clearance over my old Banners by using selected timber scraps to fill the gap, and then carefully measuring them.
Alan
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Johnlc,
When I needed to replace my two Banner 955/51 batteries last year, I looked at what I could squeeze under the front seats with minimal modification. The limiting factor was 306mm absolute maximum length.
I have used ABS supplied batteries as starter batteries for my lawn tractor over several years without any problems. ABS were able to supply a suitable dual purpose battery with increased capacity, and a CCA of 1000A which would be a condideration if the battery was to be used for jump starting. A contender was an Exide ER450. I eventually decided on the ABS labelled battery.
Here is a link to a similar ABS 85Ahr battery, but with a 275 x 157 footprint, it is slightly larger than your posted requirements.
Alan
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2 hours ago, Labby said:
The earlier Sargent PSUs (EC200/PSU2007 ) used separate split charge and fridge relays, often found under the bonnet on X244 Fiat Ducato . I think things may have changed when the X250 series came out .
That is the explanation that I am coming to accept. My information has been collected when answering previous queries, and these naturally tend to be for older vehicles.
The logical approach for @Barneis that suggested by @Robinhood.
Alan
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3 hours ago, Labby said:
Sorry ,but I am not able to post links but if you follow the Sargent website information I have shown it leads to the split charging relay location information regarding later Sargent PSU units.(not a diagram) .As you say , the EM40 can be a problem and I believe Apuljack electronics contacted the Autotrail owners group last year asking people with problems with theirs to get in touch with them as they were developing a more robust unit as a replacement (which they have now done and it is shown in their catalogue)
I have followed the path suggested above by Labby, and I have experienced no difficulty in creating a link.
The article does suggest that Sargent PSUs in general have an integral split charge relay. This does not agree with my inspection of diagrams available to me, where the split charge and fridge relays are shown external to the PSU. Further I remember being involved with several similar threads, where separately mounted relays where photographed. I am puzzled by this.
Alan
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1 hour ago, Labby said:
Information regarding the location of the split charging relay in later Sargent PSUs can be found in the Sargent support section / search articles /split charging
Labby,
If you have researched and found this, why not post a link. I spent some time this morning, trying to find a diagram.
Alan
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2 hours ago, Labby said:
Sargent have a repair harness for wiring/ connection damage at the EM40 module in their shop ,if needed . (product No 10001-20)
This seems to suggest that there is a problem with the EM40. I suspect that a replacement harness is a fix rather than a cure,
Alan
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I have have diagrams for various older Sargent systems but have been unable to find a diagram for the EC500. Earlier systems used a split charge relay external to the Sargent unit. As split charge relays are gradually being replaced by B2B (Battery to Battery) chargers, it seems unlikely that Sargent would start to fit an integral relay. This leads me to the following conclusion.
Either there is an external split charge relay, perhaps added under the bonnet, or a B2B has been installed and a split charge relay has not been fitted.
Without access to a wiring diagram, it is difficult to work out what other effects the EN80 failure may have had on the system.
Alan
When I first mentioned the EM40, I did not know that Barne's vehicle was fitted with one , or that he had been driving across France when the problem was noticed. I am aware of a recent EM40 failure in similar circumstances. Previously there have been several reported failures on other forums. This does seem to suggest a design problem.
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Hi Barne,
I hold some old information relating to the x250 converter's socket.
Pin 2 of the 15way connector is the D+ output, and is active low i.e, connects to earth when alternator is working.
From what I have read there may be a Sargent relay box fitted somewhere under the seat. This box among other functions will either convert the signal to active high, or may even contain the split charge relay. It would make sense for the split charge relay to be in that area, as a power feed from the starter battery is also available at the B pillar. (Check for presence of two pole heavy duty connector.)
The split charge relay is provided by the converter, while the relays at the B pillar are fitted as an option by Fiat.
Also the fuses in that area do not include one for the D+ output.
I am wondering whether your vehicle is too old to be fitted with the Sargent EM40 relay module? I have become aware that there are several reported failures in recent months due to connectors overheating. I am speculating that the problems are more likely to occur on long drives. This would be due to the high current taken by large fridges running on 12V while driving. - Something to be aware of. If you do have a similar problem, consider the alternative unit made by Apuljack.
I am sorry that I am not able to attach more details of the converters socket, because this forum does not accept pdf, and most of my document library is pdf. I would need your email via PM to attach documents.
I hope that the above helps you to find the fault. Please report what you discover.
Alan
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The word "Merry" infers a state of alcohol induced intoxication.
Alcohol is a poison, and I am not into recommending the inake of poison as a recreation.
I will wish everyone a Happy New Year.
Alan
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2 hours ago, arthur49 said:
"There was an audible click and…"
That to me sounds like a relay operating. Maybe contacts stuck and now OK? Relay contacts can 'burn' over time I believe and prevent good electrical contact
Arthur,
I hope that you will not take offence, but while relays can fail, I tend to be sceptical when the are suspected. More frequently it is the connections to the relay that are the problem. In this case I suspect a high resistance at the connector.
Yes contacts can be burnt, but usually when breaking the supply to inductive loads is involved. This is not the case with split charge relay. It will obviously carry some current when operating, but on being released by the simulated D+ going low, there should be minimal current flowing, as both batteries will have similar voltages.
Alan
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5 hours ago, Brodgar said:
A little later in following up (and perhaps closing this thread) because I was temporarily BANNED from the site! Not quite sure why since I didn’t believe my charging problem to be in any way controversial but after contacting the moderator the ban seemed just as mysteriously to lift.
I pulled all the connections off the DS300 board, took an ‘unplugged’ photograph (this for clarity so I could study the layout and ask questions in a later post) and reconnected everything. Then I started the engine and took voltage readings at the board terminals. First of all they were -
B1 - 14.2v (yahoo!); B2 - 12.5v (boohoo 😢)
But then I pulled the blue/white wire connector off and on. There was an audible click and…
B1 - 13.8v; B2 - 13.8v…encouraging
So I then checked voltages elsewhere…
Across starter battery 14.1v; readout on PC200 B1 - 14.2v; B2 13.6v
I’ve other issues to resolve (no interior lights), tidy up and clean/lubricate wiring and connections, plus some I might have though haven’t yet found out I do, but in the meantime it would seem, if those readings are correct, that I don’t have a charging problem..?
Andy
That's more like what I would expect, but judging from the drop in B1 voltage after the "click", it seems as though B2 was receiving a respectable charging current.
The readouts on the PC200 can be calibrated to match meter readings, but this is best done when B2 is fully charged after a journey. B1 has 0.2V, and B2 has 0.1V increments.
If you do not have a CBE system manual, giving procedure for the above adjustments and others, I could supply a downloaded copy.
Alan
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1 hour ago, Brodgar said:
…Re: my ignorance - presumably no the fridge does not draw power with the ignition off because as you said its relay is wired in parallel with the split charge relay. Hi-hum, I’ll get there, every day’s a school day..!
One other thing though - if FA4 is a tapped supply for accessories, what is blade terminal FA5 for? The same..?
Yes according to the manual.
Andy
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1 hour ago, Brodgar said:
Hi guys. Apologies - it’s my punctuation/shorthand that’s at fault in my last post. When I wrote 13+ volts, I meant I was getting more than 13 volts. In fact I think it was 13.63 volts. So all good there.
I would still like to see over 14.0V. 13.6V is not much more that a float voltage.
Re: the white wire ‘mains on signal from the charger’, and forgive my ignorance, but do you mean the DC516 charger, and is that low rate charge to the starter battery when the van is on electrical hook-up?
White wire is the"S" signal rated at 50mA. It is used to operate one of the Tyco relays. I think probably the one above the split carge relay. Contacts of said relay connect blocking diode and current limiting thermistor between B1 and B2 Thermistor is blue disc, and diode is adjacent. On EHU B1 will be about 0.5V lower than B2, due to diode forward voltage drop. Current limited to about 2A maximum.
Re: the fridge - if it’s switched to 12v, does it draw power when the ignition is switched off?
A 3 way fridge should not draw 12V power with ignition off. Not sure about AES fridges, as they can draw 12V power with other distribution systems i.e Schaudt Electroblok.
The B2 battery is earthed to the chassis by a thick metal braided earth strap. It seems in good condition. There are some other wires connected to the terminals on B2 which I’d like to trace - some of them are for the Webasto heater.
When I get back (which won’t be until Thursday) I’ll pull the connections off and check them for dryness/corrosion. Doing so to the blue/white wire certainly seems to have had an effect. I never heard the relay at all on the way into work this morning. I’ll also double check the voltage readings. If all is well I think my next job will be to see what state the drinking water pump and heater are in.Thanks again guys
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4 hours ago, Alanb said:
Hi Andy.
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As B2 can be charged with the DSxxx switched off, I do not think that even its 16 way connector is pertinant.
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Alan
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I meant to say "......PCxxx switched off", as that is where the on/off switch is located.
Alan
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Hi Andy.
I am not happy about your voltage readings of just 13.0V, which is insufficient.
Can you check your multimeter on another vehicle battery? You should see up to 14.4V with engine running.
With meter checked, I suggest pulling the main B1 fuse for the DS300, and then checking charging voltage directly across the starter battery. This will check as to how well the alternator is working.
For the present problem, the only connections of importance are those at the three M6 studs, and of course the blue wire connecton (The white wire is the "mains on" signal from the charger. This signal initiates a low rate charge to the starter battery.) As B2 can be charged with the DSxxx switched off, I do not think that even its 16 way connector is pertinant.
The three main battery connections do not show any signs of corrosion, but how is B2 negative linked to B1 negative? It could be either by a direct cable, or via a chassis connection. Either would be part of the charging path, and the return for the simulated D+ signal. I think that this connection(s), should be checked. Continuing my thoughts, is there an absorbtion fridge, and is it selected to 12V? The 12V element takes in excess of 13A, and could cause significant voltage drop across a poor quality earh connection.
Alan
Edit to add: The fridge 12 element is supplied via pins 2 & 3 of the 6 way whie connector.
No radio, satnav or retracting step unless on electric hook up
in Motorhome Matters
Posted
Unfortunately, the fact that the lights work from battery, and other items do not, does not exactly fit with my hypothesis. It is difficult to suggest more, without details of the 12V habitation installation.
It does seem that the step, radio, and satnav are connected to the mains charger, and the 12V lights are connected to the habitation battery. I can only suggest that the vehicle is inncorrectly wired with 12V dstribution connected to the battery side of a fuse, and the step etc effectively connected to the other (charger) side of the fuse. If this fuse has blown, then replacing it would remove the symptoms. However this would reinforce my suggestion that there is an incorrect connection.
It is quite possible that the hypothetical error has been present since initial conversion. (I have a memory of a problem where it transpired that the starter and habitation battery connection were crossed on a new MH.)
Alan