Running vehicles on water

[peterd13]

In view of the perennial subject, frequently aired on here, concerning the mpg of this or that motorhome I am surprised that this subject has not been discussed.  Or maybe it has, but I have not spotted it.  If you google on my subject line numerous references drop out claiming that you can simply convert your vehicle to run partially on hydrogen produced from water. The claimed result is a massive increase in mpg figures, which must be of interest to the owners of gas guzzling motorhomes!  Now I am naturally cynical and usually of the opinion that if something seems too good to be true it usually is.  So I googled this because if it were a scam then usually you find a reference (witness the Nigerian Money Scam upon which much has been written).  But I could find nothing to its detriment.  For those who have not heard of this www.water4gas.com is a good starting point.  So has anyone used this technology and can anyone categorically recommend or condemn it?  I would be interested to know.

[fred22]

In the 60's I seem to remember Lotus Cortina's at Mallory Park having some sort of water injection fitted but not heard about it since. Anyone know how it worked, or remember it?

[afandy]

I had a Saab Turbo in the early 80's that had water injection but didnt run on this..... the water was sprayed into the Turbo to cool and let you boost the Turbo for more power...Bloody quick it was as well....Was also told that planes had this after the war also.......

[colin]

If you haven't seen anything "to it's detriment" you haven't looked hard enough. Earlier this year I looked into this, there are large numbers posting how good it is, these can usualy be traced back to a seller of sytem, there is a Milloin dollar "reward" out for anyone able to denomstrait a working example that does what it says. The only independant test I've seen of the system alone (and not the driving technique which gives most of the savings) showed a reduction in mpg, but saying all that if you are still interested I can dig out a link (or maybe email you) which shows how to do it for free, this link doesn't tell you to "drive slowly" or "acelerate carefully" so you won't get those massive savings *-)

[peterd13]

Well I looked pretty hard.  As I said, my natural cynicism held sway and still does. Guess it would make groundbreaking news everywhere if it were true.  So where did you find this information?

[colin]

Here's a link, don't expect any better info in real terms if you shell out for the ebooks.

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Smack.pdf

[Keithl]

Jeremy Clarkson reviewed a Jaguar which ran on water recently, http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article5106324.ece

Well actually it injected water and Methanol. Methanol for more power and water to keep it cool.

Still it must look good filling up your tank with water!

[RoyH]

I am sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong,but if we start breaking water down into hydrogen and oxygen and burn it then we are using another of the Earth's finite resources.

There is, as far as I am aware, no way of manufacturing water, we've got what we've got and it goes round and round. Falling as rain and evaporating and re-falling again. The difference between oil and water is that water is essential to life, oil is not. Maybe that's what happened to Mars, the Martians found out how to burn water and low and behold they are no more.

In fact every time we fire something into space we are losing some water which will never be replaced.

 

But cheer up, a few weeks and Christmas will be over. Be merry and have a happy new year.

 

 

[Brambles]

There is, as far as I am aware, no way of manufacturing water, we've got what we've got and it goes round and round.

 

When combustion takes place in your engine then you are producing water. Light a candle and hold a cold plate above it for just a few seconds - you will see water condensed on the cold surface (as well as carbon) - water produced from the combustion in the flame.

[olley]

Hi their was a big post on MHF about this, basically you burn petrol at about 35% efficiency to produce electricity at about 90% efficiency, to run an electrolysis set up at about 50% efficiency, to feed the gas back into the engine.

 

If you think that sounds as if its going to increase your MPH then spend your money, me I will keep doing the lotto.

 

Olley

[Mr. Grumpy]

I am sure a scientist will correct me if I am wrong but I thought that a water injection system worked by converting the water to steam using the heat in the cylinder and thereby raising the pressure in the cylinder rather than separating oxygen and hydrogen and combusting the result. If it was possible to separate oxygen and hydrogen by simply spraying it into a combustion cylinder all our energy problems would have been solved years ago.

[yesmad]

HHO I think it's called and if you go to you tube and put HHO in you find lots of information on this. What you do is the gas that is formed is piped into the inlet pipe of the engine and it makes the fuel burn better, it works on both petrol and diesel engines. I am thinking about it, but I am not sure what the insurance company would think if you wanted to make a claim. My son had LPG fitted to his BMW but didn't tell his insurance company and boy did he have hassle when he made a claim, they made him pay extra going back 3 years to when he first took out the insurance with them.

[Archiesgrandad]

Hi

We did go through all this recently and some really clever chaps explained it all.

You can get some improvement in power/economy but it's not really practical. I think the same outfit probably sells snake oil which completely eliminates friction and gives the same effect.

AS they say, if it sounds too good it probably is.

 

AGD

[Ranger]

The intraduction of water into the induction system of an internal combustion engine improves the performance " slightly " by improving the pressure ( Expansion ) of the combustion somewhat by the introduction of steam when the water enters the hot cylinder. ( So my fitter told me ) I first discovered this many many years ago with my old Hillman side valve car when it developed a leak in the top hose of the radiator which when hot dripped water out which was caught by the air filter of the carburetor and increased the performance a little. It was noticable as the performance of that old car was disgusting to say the least. After I fixed the leaking top hose the engines performance went back to it's original hopeless chugging along and going nowhere much very slowly. Has anyone noticed that a vehicle seems to perform a little better than normal on a damp foggy day? or is that an optical illusion as visibillity is reduced thus making distances look greater that they infact are ?? Any one for water injection ?

[Brian Kirby]

Has no-one ever noticed that their car runs better on cool, slightly humid, evenings?  The reason is that the extra humidity in the air (water vapour) is turned to steam in the heat of combustion, so adding a little extra power.  This is further aided by ingesting the cool air, which expands more when heated. 

Injecting a little water vapour into the inlet manifold, as a means to enhance performance, has been around for years.  It works, but is extremely difficult to control and requires continual monitoring in relation to the demand on the engine, the ambient humidity, and the air temperature. 

I think the general conclusion, up to the present, has been that the cost of the added complexity, assuming it could be reliably achieved, would outweigh any advantage in fuel efficiency.

Far simpler to just drive on cool, humid, evenings!

[Mr. Grumpy]

I thought that is what I said yesterday! I'm not called Grumpy for nothing.

[Tony Jones]

Oops, posted twice! :'(

[Tony Jones]

Sorry, I've obviously completely misunderstood the title of this thread. I thought it was about this ...

[Mr. Grumpy]

In one fell swoop you have solved the problem of which ferry to book and made Clarkson pig sick!

[gordonaldson]

Yes got answer here,

Water injection was actually steam injection and quite a few companies sold it way back then.

You wouldn't want too much water to get into your engine anyway, like going through a deep puddle, sorry stream. Hydraulicing (spelling doesn't look right), is the word.

HST power car back in 1980's, with Paxman engine had this problem when the exhaust box fractured causing coolant to run back into bores, oooch.

Now as to water powered I've 2 answers;-

Large boats, I mean large as in cargo, container boats like the type that unload their containers on the beaches of south coast, mix their fuel oil with water with an emulsifier which gives cooler running and saves money of course. Read about that years ago and no one else has taken it further.

Now we go even further back to 70's, remember the guy in the news saying that his car ran on water. Well he was thought to be off his head, was he, well no. Remember him saying, "my tanks got only water in it", then he removed the cap and put a few tablets in it and drove away.

What was he doing, well lets go back to 1890's, Yes 1890's when, wait for it, yes the Miners Carbide Lamp was developed.

You want more well everything comes into place right now.

The carbide lamp comprised of two chambers, a burner and a water drip controller.

A small amount of water either dripped or flowed from the top tank/chamber via a control lever into the bottom chamber that held Calcium Carbide (powder or ---- tablet form -- remember above). The water reaction formed Acetylene gas which rose to the top of the bottom chamber, then flowed out a small tube to a burner tip outside. This burner tip was surrounder by a shiny reflector. The resultant light was said to be 4 to 6 times brighter than an oil lamp or safety lamp.

So run on water, yes..

Some bright spark reading this, just might become famous with a new engine powering system, but, no chance like loads of those on tomorrows world they were bopught out by "THE BIG OIL COMPANIES".

Good luck anyway hope you's enjoyed my wee story.

Gordon.....

[George Collings]

For aero piston engines a carefully controlled mix of water and usually methonal was injected into the inlet manifold. It cooled and therefore increased the density of the air allowing more fuel including the methonal to be burnt for increased power . It also effectivly increased the fuels octane rating to combat the dreaded detonation and lowered nasty NOX emmisions.

 

It was due to its complexity mainly used for military aircraft for take off, climb and combat situations and I have heard it is still used for racing.

 

Some of the early jet bombers used water injection to give greater mass for improved thrust on take off and as this displaced air giving a rich mixture they smoked badly. More powerfull engines made the system redundant.

 

The effect of cold damp air always shows most on very low powered cars.

My first two were pre war ( WW2 not WW1 ) , side valve Morris eights with a massive 25hp when new They pulled better and ran smoother.

 

Some of the lads at Tech College swore by a tin can full of water tied to the exhaust manifold with a pipe taking the steam to the air intake.

 

You would have to spray a lot of water into a cylinder to get hydraulic locking.

 

It usually happens on flooded roads when the air intake goes underwater and the engine gulps in solid water. The paper air cleaner element can get smashed and sucked in as well. Outboards that fall of the boat and take a drink while still running get badly smashed

 

If the head gasket leaks and fills up the cylinder when the engine is standing idle. The next time its started a connecting rod gets bent and the engine locks solid.

 

Lots of dosh. As we used to say in the trade. It all makes work for the working man to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Usinmyknaus]

I recall in the 60's a TV article on a Triumph Herald which ran on water - sort of - in that it had a steam engine under the bonnet and in the cabin bulkhead, a hatch through which the driver shovelled small lumps of coal. A key problem of course was limited range owing to a lack of storage capacity for heavy fuel in such a small car. At least back then, coal yards were more widely available than now....

 

Leap forward to today, let's say we rip out the diesel lump at the front of our motorhomes, slot in a steam engine and on the left side of the cab, install the boiler hatch. Set aside half the habitation area for nutty slack, equip our other halves with boiler suit, coal shovel and locoman's headgear and off we go! Er, somehow I think my co-pilot is going to baulk at the idea.... she prefers to relax back in the "First Class Lounge" during travel, while the chaufeur up front gets on with it.

 

Bob :-D

[Rainbow-Chasers]

Water injection cooling the air taken in by the engine increases power, and fuel economy marginally, it does it though at the detriment of the engine, especially when left to stand for a while! It is commonly used in the race arena to improve power, but bear in mind these engines are stripped and rebuilt after each race.

 

Water from hydrogen is a bit of a misnomer, it is mainly hype, and although it can be done, it represents no gain and is thus not viable. There was much talk about it online a while ago, much of which was spoof. I do know a chap which actually converted a vehicle just to see if it worked, and it was of no benefit at all, as the amount required cannot be produced at a level that would be feasable. I think in his case, he had a maximum speed of 35mph, and little torque at all.