Poppy Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 without air bags? Have been offered a new high spec Hymer SL direct from Germany.Said to be a 2009 model but has NO airbags.Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Nope! Why not see if you can find adverts on the web for the van you think it is and check the specification to see if the current model should have airbags, then if it does, you can search for previous years and see if they didn't ... without more details there's not a lot I can do - I've had a trawl but without full details I'm just getting loads of bumph. If it IS a current model, it might by that it was ordered wrongly and converted before anyone realised it didn't have any airbags. Or it may simply be that the European versions don't have them as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Poppy - 2009-11-06 8:08 PM without air bags? Have been offered a new high spec Hymer SL direct from Germany.Said to be a 2009 model but has NO airbags.Is this correct? Is this offer from a UK dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Its from Bundesvan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Here? http://www.bundesvan.co.uk/showroom.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankkia Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 In Germany vehicles come with TUV and Brief - which means a MOT certificate /letter which gives full details of the vehicle including the date of manufacture, weights, CO2 emissions etc. We once bought a 'van which was supposed to be brand new and turned out, when I got chance to read it's papers, to have been made a year before. The 'van had been on a dealers forecourt and had been to every exhibition in Germany. It was then taken back by the manufacturer and exported to the UK as a new one - we got our money back. Ask to see the papers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 Thats the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Poppy - 2009-11-06 8:46 PM Its from Bundesvan. Then, if you're unhappy that the airbags are not there, ask Uncle Nick to confirm that they are not fitted and, if not , ask him to find you one with. He's a nice chap, and I'm sure he will understand.Don't make the assumption that they can be retro-fitted, so far as I know, this is not possible with any make of base vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 The guy who runs Bundesvan has a very good reputation. He will source vehicles for you from Europe and negotiate a price all for minimal commission. He is one of the good guys so I'm told. He may have changed this strategy somewhat due to the falling pound (as he used to also make accompanied visits around European dealers with his clients) but I have spoken to people and have read about him on websites all of whom have been impressed. I have not used his services personally. Why don't you e mail Bundesvan from the link on his website? It is difficult to believe that a 2009 vehicle does not have an airbag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted November 6, 2009 Author Share Posted November 6, 2009 O.K Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 If it was a choise of no airbag or drivers airbag at extra cost then I would purchase the one with airbag, if there was an option of passenger airbag (on a van) I wouldn't bother, if there was no choise then I would purchase anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 But is it legal to sell a van in this day and age without airbags? email Hymer or a reputable Hymer European dealership....... Then ask your insurer their opinion! I know it is common for crash repaired vehicles not to have airbag and don't anyone try and tell me "but this is a new vehicle" Read Bernie's post! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Considering all the mulitude of laws governing what we can and cannot do,coming out of Europe I should think a drivers airbag, at the very least should be mandatory fitting. *-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 JudgeMental - 2009-11-07 10:55 AM But is it legal to sell a van in this day and age without airbags? email Hymer or a reputable Hymer European dealership....... Then ask your insurer their opinion! I know it is common for crash repaired vehicles not to have airbag and don't anyone try and tell me "but this is a new vehicle" Read Bernie's post! *-) The last time I looked at regs there was no legal requirement for air bags to pass SVA(now superceeded by IVA) also vans have been subject to more lax regs compared to cars, this is (has?) I believe changing soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Hate to differ from everone else, but we have been driving our van for the last 11 years with no air bags and it hasn't affected the performance one bit! LoL! It would not bother me in the slightest if it was what I wanted at the right price. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I think I may have missed a trick, because I believe the van Poppy refers to is an A class, and I seem to remember it isn't possible to get any A class van with airbags.The problem, if I remember, is that the standard airbag is designed to expand only into a the standard base vehicle cab. When an A class shell is created, the cab volume is far greater than the volume of a standard van cab, so the performance of the standard airbag would be unpredictable without extensive further testing, with all bags of necessity becoming "specials". Result, prohibitive development and testing costs, and concerns over who should fit them, and who would have injury liability if the bag didn't do its job.The final point was, if I remember, that with the exception of the steering wheel (for which seat belts give the main protection), all the bits the airbag is designed to protect you from are much further away from the driver/passenger of a A class, than in a standard van cab. Thus the secondary impact risk should be much reduced. Since, I think all, of the A class vehicles are fitted with front seats that fully incorporate the seat belt, it should be the case that both front occupants are better restrained than in the standard van cab, plus they have much more space around them if the worst happens. Inevitably it is a balance of risks, and the view that seems to have evolved is that the A class without airbags presents little, if any, increase in risk over the standard van cab with airbags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 That may well be it then......Or maybe a cancelled special order. But I still dont get why no drivers bag. I can understand a problem with a passenger bag in an A class but not a driver one. I would think all chassis would have a driver air bag as standard ...No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I would suggest that its impossible to fit air bags to A class vehicles/bodies. The whole frontal design of standard production line vehicles is so arranged that the energy forces during a crushing will activate the mechanism. The assembly of "hand made" and plastic fronted bodies would never meet the energy force calculations to activate an air bag. The frontal energy forces are also resisted by surrounding and rear bodywork which is pretty well non existant on an A class vehicles, whereas a standard frontal cab has all the required surrounding resistance built in "as a cab". I can visualise if air bags were fitted to our Rapido 987M 2006 then the frontal section and engine would be through the bodywork and out the back door before it even thought of activating! Much as what Brian was suggesting. (perhaps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 I think it is actually perfectly legal not to have airbags.I have seen Burstnersadvertized on UK dealership websites with options for airbags, driver and passenger.I do not think we will buy this van though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Chapman Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Hello Poppy, To the best of my knowledge most of the A Class motorhomes can have airbags fitted as an option. Having in the past considered a Pilote City Van I found that the driver/passenger airbags were a £3000 option and included different seats and I would suspect also mountings. The catalogue gave the impression that airbags are standard but I found that this was not so and did not proceed with the order as a result. Most A class vehicles are built on a standard chassis cowl and while the coachbuilt panelling and structure often gives more room as described by Brian, the standard dash, steering column and steering wheel, pedals and supporting framework are the same as in a standard van and therefore remain a collision injury risk. I may be wrong but I understood that the airbags are triggered by a sensor not by the front panelling and this would have to be tested and proven for the vehicle to pass any safety tests. To answer your original question I personally would not consider any vehicle that did not have front driver and passenger airbags fitted. How long will it be before the van base vehicles are fitted with side impact and knee/leg airbags? As an aside what happened to the idea (Audi?) of having airbags built into the seatbelts? Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 As well as the safety aspect the horrendous cost of A class windshields and headlights will make you weep unless a lottery winner *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicklegg Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 FYI, driver and passenger airbags are an extra in the Hymer 2009 European price list (item # 2336, Euros 1,200 ). Would you buy a van without them? Until recently very few motorhomes had them. Ultimately it's a personal choice! Nick Legg Bundesvan www.bundesvan.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffers Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 ?????? air bags are a yank thing because they won't wear seat belts, so what's the worry if they have one or not - other than the possibe reflection on the age of the van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Sorry Duffers but air bags are a yank thing because they won't wear seat belts is quite incorrect. They are a Supplementary Restraint System (SRS) and are ONLY FULLY effective when used with a seat belt. They offer little or possibly no protection if the occupant is not wearing a properly fitting seat belt. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Good Morning, My Burstner Aviano A class has air bags fitted as standard both to the drivers (in the steering wheel and Passengers above glove box) the drivers is a Multi stage air bag, the base chassis for my M/H is the dreaded Fiat x250, and it would appear that it was a chassis cowl ,where it is supplied to the builder with dash inplace but no body work at all, then the bulder / converter starts from there, my dash is the same as any Fiat x250 as is all other cab functions, heating /lights switches etc etc, hope this is of some assistance, :-D Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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