vansearcher Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Does anyone know the size of the gas bottles available in France or Spain (not Camping Gaz ones) and will they fit into the gas locker of my 2003 Autosleeper Nuevo which holds 2x6/7kg bottles but very neatly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doonhamer Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'm not sure if 6/7 kg bottles are available in France or Spain - the normal size is 13kg but beware your UK regulator will not fit, the French thread is different and Spain use a clip on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'm not certain about the smaller size in France but both Cepsa and Repsol do a small cylinder in both Spain and Portugal. The Cepsa bottle is likeliest to fit as it is of typical construction, made in aluminium but its still larger than a small Calor. The Repsol one is plastic which is shorter and a bit wider. I've got a small Portugese Repsol bottle 7kg (swapped it in the Algarve for a larger Spanish one at a Repsol agent at a small profit) which will not fit into my locker on a panel van. What a lot of people do in Spain is to buy a bottle a a flea market, dead easy, this is a lot easier than the "official" way. Regulators can be bought in any hardware shop for 7.5 euro's. If the bottle you buy is a large steel one , you can stand it on the ground and connect it back through a BBQ point or what I did was to remove one of the gas "drop out" grilles in the gas locker and with a longish length of hose feed it back into the gas locker from underneath, so I could lock the locker and it worked a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vansearcher Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Thanks, I'll do the same then. I suppose I could travel with it in the small washroom as long as it does not trash the plastic when going round corners. Any good ideas for securing bottles in the habitation area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 vansearcher - 2009-11-11 6:15 PM Thanks, I'll do the same then. I suppose I could travel with it in the small washroom as long as it does not trash the plastic when going round corners. Any good ideas for securing bottles in the habitation area? With a couple of strong nylon straps we fastened ours to the rear of the passenger seat with pleanty of foam, you know the mats that campers use undersleeping bags. Anything like that would do the trick. When it was outside on the ground I used a chain and padlock to lock it to one of the alloy wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Marvin's right, at least so far as Spain is concerned..... The orange 13kg "butano" gas bottles are what everyone uses here. The regulkator is a clip-on type, but you can get them everywhere, and they just attach to your flexible gas hose with a jubile clip. Don't try to buy a new butano bottle if only pasing through Spain. They sell them at almost every Repsol petrol station and at loads of shops in very town, BUT you (normally....unless the garage people really need your cash and will sell you one on the sly) have to provide all sorts of paperwork to take out a rental contract before they'll let you buy one.....and it costs about 45 euros anyway. Much better bet is to pick one up secondhand, loads available everywhere (going rate for empty secondhand bottle is about 10 euros), then just take it to any Repsol outlet and swop it for a full bottle....costs about 10.40 euros at the moment. When you've finished in Spain, either take it with you for next time, or flog it on to someone else. Google the Repsol Espana website, which has the dimension of the standard butano bottles on it. It also has the dimensions of the newer 7kg (I think that's the size) plastic orange butano bottles too....they fit to the same push-fit regulator, but they are much less widely used here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vansearcher Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Thanks all, perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I think the only French gas bottle that MIGHT fit is "Le Cube". This holds 5kg(propane) or 6kg(butane). It is 37cm high and 28cm wide, with (as the name suggests) a roughly square cross-section, rather than a circular one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach2000 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I use Le Cube in France but can only get 1 cylinder in the Gas locker which normally holds 2-7kg Calor. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 We found the French bottles to "Wide " to fit in our locker 2006 Swift Sundace. Depends how long you are going to be away. We were away for two and half months, this year. Came home with one full bottle and the second still had some in it. I do have one Electric Hob plate, on my cooker, and always use an Electric kettle We did use the gas for heating to start with, as it was still cold at night in Northern Spain. We carry a small calor bottle , available in supermakets for emergancy, but as we tend to stay on sites, use the Electric, as it will power the Tely! P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Two propane Cubes fit in my gas compartment with room to spare. They are often on special offer in the French supermarkets and at least one regulator is usually included. The deposit is less than you pay in England and the Cubes are lighter than other bottles. I sometimes carry the largest Gaz canister as they are cheap to exchange in Spain. I do not have Calor as in England I always go on sites with electricity so I manage with just the French ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAB Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I can also recommend the Cube. Widely available and can be exchanged in most supermarket and other fuel stations in France. Not been to Spain recently so not able to comment on availability. When I bought mine a regulator was automatically included in the price. Have been using it all summer at home for the gas barbecue. Would also recommend the propane - especially for early and late seasonal use. Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 According to the Caravan Club's handbook a Calor 7kg/6kg gas-bottle is 495mm high x 256mm diameter. Le Cube is less tall, but its extra width and rectangular cross-section may prevent it being used in a UK-built motorhome having a gas-locker designed specifically for the Calor container. As Clive says, when a Le Cube is initially sold an appropriate butane or propane clip-on regulator will normally be provided free of charge. However, for a recent-ish motorhome with bulkhead-mounted 30mbar regulator, you'd need a 'full-pressure' 27mm clip-on adapter to connect to the bottle and a suitable gas-hose to go between the 30mbar regulator and adapter. The gas-hose is the same as used in the UK to connect directly to a 4.5kg Calor butane bottle. A full-pressure Le Cibe adapter may be offered as a free alternative to a regulator, but you won't get a free gas-hose. Gaslow can provide suitable gas-hoses and a 27mm clip-on adapter, though (as Le Cube's carrying-handles surround the gas-valve) it might be wiser to obtain the 'genuine' Le Cube adapter when in France. Needless to say, if you do play games with your motorhome's gas system and/or drive with gas-bottles inside the vehicle's living area, and there's a consequential accident, then it's quite likely your insurance company will be a mite peeved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Derek I think I understand what you are saying about the different bar pressures but would a 2003 motorhome not be a 27 bar still? I thought the gas changes came later than this? Certainly my 2001/2 m/home is still the old system and I have not trouble with the hoses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 In my experience ,in France there are many different size gas bottles,one that comes to mind is the TWINNY, it is similar in size to our dumpy CALOR bottles, it comes as Propane or Butane,and in France if you buy it at a Supermarket you get a regulator free, I have one in my garage at home and could measure it if it will help,you can also get lightweight plastic /fibre glass bottles, as I said the range is large,French bottles are easily obtained and a simple form is completed and deposit paid, unlike England you get the deposit back if you return the bottle after ANY period of time,Get them from Supermarket Fuel stations where you can look at the bottles in cages before you buy to get an idea of a size to suit you, then it is easy to point out the one you want if you don't have the language. In Spain it is easier to buy a bottle at a RASTRTO, car boot sale as if you try to get an official bottle your van has to be inspected for gas safety and a certificate obtained, 120 euros for this ,then the bottle contract and cost of first bottle and gas.expensive, but at a Rastro I got a 13 kg bottle for 5 euros and exchanged it at a Repsol petrol station for 10- 5 euros regulators are easily obtained. you can also get lightweight 6 kg bottles from petrol stations , strangely you need no paper work as these are suposedley for Barbis,the same regulators fit these bottles, a good place to buy a regulator and gas hose is at a TODO [ sell all shop ] these are usually run by Chinese and are everywhere and great to wander round, you won't believe the range of goods they sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Patricia I'm not sure what type of gas system vansearcher's 2003 Nuevo would have. I understand that the switch to a fixed 30mbar regulator was implemented by UK motorhome manufacturers in September 2003, so it might have the outgoing 28-37mbar 'on-bottle' regulator type or the incoming 30mbar fixed regulator set-up. If (as may well be the case) it has the traditional UK-standard gas system, with on-bottle regulator and a jubilee-clip-attached hose between regulator and the motorhome's metal gas pipework, then the appropriate replacement butane or propane clip-on regulator (that - as you rightly say - is usually offered free when you first obtain a Le Cube) would be required. (It might be worth adding that French on-bottle regulators have a threaded inlet and, to allow the regulator to be attached to a traditional UK-type gas-hose, a separate 'nipple' needs to be screwed on to that inlet. My experience is that the French butane regulator is normally sold with an attachment nipple, whereas the propane regulator is sometimes sold without it. You can buy the nipple separately, however. Our UK-traditional hose + jubilee-clips arrangement is forbidden for French-registered leisure vehicles and only permitted for 'domestic' applications like barbecues, butane-fuelled cooking stoves, etc.) Vindiboy There are indeed lots of different sizes and shapes of French gas bottle, but (as I suggested earlier) the one most likely to fit in a gas-locker designed to tightly house Calor 7kg/6kg containers is Le Cube. The TWINY container holds 6kg of butane and TWINY PRO holds 5.1kg of propane. Both containers are dimensionally identical, being 31cm high x 31cm diameter. When two TWINY containers are 'stacked', the overall size of the stacked pair is 58cm high x 31cm diameter. This is much the same size as a traditional 13kg French steel gas bottle and one of TWINY's selling points. Look-alike containers (eg. ELFI and MALICE) are marketed by other gas suppliers, but they are all dimensionally similar to the TWINY bottle. TWINY, ELFI and MALICE all use a 20mm-diameter clip-on regulator (or adapter) rather than the 27mm version needed for Le Cube. I believe there are just two lightweight 'composite' gas-bottles (CALYPSO and VISEO) currently marketed in France. Both contain 10kg of butane and, being only slightly smaller in overall size than a French 13kg steel bottle, are considerably bulkier than a 7kg/6kg Calor container. A few 10kg-capacity steel bottles have been introduced recently, but these are also pretty big dimensionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Derek Uzzell - 2009-11-14 9:15 AM Patricia (It might be worth adding that French on-bottle regulators have a threaded inlet and, to allow the regulator to be attached to a traditional UK-type gas-hose, a separate 'nipple' needs to be screwed on to that inlet. My experience is that the French butane regulator is normally sold with an attachment nipple, whereas the propane regulator is sometimes sold without it. You can buy the nipple separately, however. Our UK-traditional hose + jubilee-clips arrangement is forbidden for French-registered leisure vehicles and only permitted for 'domestic' applications like barbecues, butane-fuelled cooking stoves, etc.) Derek thank you for taking the time to give me such a comprehensive explanation. I have absolutely no idea about whether nipples are fitted or not as my husband fitted the first regulator. However, I am fairly sure that the petrol attendant who fitted the second regulator for me did not add anything. I assume that these nipples make a more sure connection. If so I need to obtain some next time in France. Have you any idea where to purchase them and, although I speak French, that particular word is outside my vocabulary, so do you happen to know what I should ask for? Vindiboy The TWINY container holds 6kg of butane and TWINY PRO holds 5.1kg of propane. Both containers are dimensionally identical, being 31cm high x 31cm diameter. When two TWINY containers are 'stacked', the overall size of the stacked pair is 58cm high x 31cm diameter. Gosh Derek, you certainly know your gas bottles! I have a touring caravan in France which has Twiny bottles and I had no idea that you could stack them! Presumably then, in theory, you could stack the Cube if there was enough height? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Thanks Derrick, You are right in all you say, I am lucky with my van in that I can get two 13 kg Calor Propanes in the locker, I had a fitted bulkhead regulator and my original system was gas at the regulator at bottle pressure and this gave me problems, I also had automatic change over valves and heated collars on the bottles.I removed all of this system and fitted a hose connection to the feed pipe ,and now have direct feed from the regulators fitted to my bottles to the feed in pipe of the van, I can now use any bottle from any country using the correct regulator and can even have a Continental bottle and UK bottle fitted together, I just turn one off and on as required . the pressure is controlled by the regulators and matters not on my van if it is 37 _ 28 or 30 mb. Propane or Butane, I have looked at getting refillable bottles fitted but I feel that the cost of this £300 £ 500 is too much as I can buy a lot of gas for this money. I believe in keeping things simple and after all this was the system fitted to millions of vans over the years. I have noticed on some sites people are using their Barbique inlet on their vans to put gas INTO their van systems via regulators and external gas bottle. The down side of this is that if the connector was to come adrift, unlikely but possible there would be a live feed of gas from the bottle unless the regulator was of the type that detects this and shuts off if there is no back pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 As someone who has seen the results of gas bottles of all sizes exploding during 32 in the fire service I am naturally VERY wary of the stuff! I can't understand for the life of me why people don't follow the requirements of carrying gas cylinders. There are proper written regulations about carrying gas cylinders in a vehicle and they are there for a reason. Surely you wouldn't carry 2 X12 litre containers of petrol strapped to the inside of your van so why do the same with something just as flammable and explosive? Yes I know 99% of the time you get away with it and there's no problem but just for that 1% you should be very careful indeed. As for filling it through the barbee point from a big bottle, when the pressure equalises in both bottles you can't fill from it anymore so what do you do with it then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 There you are sitting in your van at 70mph with 2 x 7kg cylinders full of gas, right next to possibly the driver and a fuel tank which say is half full of fuel and somebody T bones you, possibly bye-bye world. Is this situation any worst with a internal gas bottle securely restrainted? There are lots and lots of people of various nationalities who in addition to the contents of the gas locker carry spare gas cylinders of one breed or another and of different sizes for various purposes. Some will do this in a safer way than others, some much safer. You don't fill a bottle from another bottle via the BBQ point. As I understand it you turn off the other bottles and use the hose link to reverse the flow of gas via the BBQ point to the internal appliances. Looking forward to trying this in sunny Spain, seen it done loads of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Tomo3090 - 2009-11-14 6:23 PM As someone who has seen the results of gas bottles of all sizes exploding during 32 in the fire service I am naturally VERY wary of the stuff! I can't understand for the life of me why people don't follow the requirements of carrying gas cylinders. There are proper written regulations about carrying gas cylinders in a vehicle and they are there for a reason. Surely you wouldn't carry 2 X12 litre containers of petrol strapped to the inside of your van so why do the same with something just as flammable and explosive? Yes I know 99% of the time you get away with it and there's no problem but just for that 1% you should be very careful indeed. As for filling it through the barbee point from a big bottle, when the pressure equalises in both bottles you can't fill from it anymore so what do you do with it then? You mis-understood the bit about gas through Barbi points, what was happening was , gas bottles turned off { did miss this point } then an external bottle connected through the Barbi, point putting gas into the vans system. of course you cannot fill bottles this way,and agree with you, Gas should be treated with upmost respect and care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Connecting a motorhome's barbecue-point to an external gas container is a less versatile variation on the "Extend-a-Stay" arrangement commonly used by RV owners. See: http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/lp-gas/50525.htm As the barbecue-point employs a 'quick connect' gas hose, the arrangement may be more convenient for long-duration campers than altering the motorhome's own gas system to accept foreign gas-bottles. The method seems safe enough to me as long as the user doesn't do anything daft!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 For anyone considering connecting an external gas bottle to a BBQ point please be aware that this practice is not allowed on C&CC sites. The following was added the their rules earlier this year... "The practice of using an external cylinder to feed into the caravan system via a barbeque outlet is not permitted irrespective of the size of cylinder." Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Keithl - 2009-11-15 6:32 PM For anyone considering connecting an external gas bottle to a BBQ point please be aware that this practice is not allowed on C&CC sites. The following was added the their rules earlier this year... "The practice of using an external cylinder to feed into the caravan system via a barbeque outlet is not permitted irrespective of the size of cylinder." Keith. I personally don't use (no longer a member) the C&CC so not an issue for me. However the thread was not about the UK it was in France and Spain. Using a BBQ point is a brilliant way of solving a problem long termers sometimes experience, particularly in Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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