John J Thompson Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Clive - 2009-11-24 9:39 AM How about a poll of how many of us turn our main gast tap off 1) When driving 2) When on the ferry 3) When in the tunnel. My guess is that it might be a bit of an eye opener. C. 85 litre tank fitted to Motorhome. 1) Always on - Also use gas heater when travelling 2) Off - At the request of the ferry operator. 3) Never used the Tunnel but it would be off for the reason given at 2 I was informed when my tank was fitted by MTH that there was a valve inside the tank that would cut off all gas escaping from the tank if an excess flow was encountered. I queried this as the tap and regulator were mounted just below the skirt of the van on the near side (UK) in what appeared to me to be a vulnerable position in the case of an accident. After I found they had fitted the wrong tank, they repositioned the tank further under the van when they fitted the new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 rupert123 - 2009-11-25 11:36 AM We can all make a case for something being dangerous but if a company assures me it is OK to run with gas on that is what I will do. I accept their may be a very small, millions to one chance, it may all go wrong but that is life. As to ferries I take on what Brian has said but while the tunnel may check the ferry companies never do or even ask if your bottles are turned off, so they have no concerns. A small petrol leak from another vehicle setting of a fire because your fridge turns on is so remote personally I would not even consider it, so if you see me on your ferry best catch the next one because my gas will be on. I think, I'm afraid, Rupert, that is a half way house to properly assessing the risk. There are, in fact, three questions to answer. First, the one you have addressed: what is the chance of the risk event occurring? Answer: very low.However, you then need to ask: how serious could be the consequences were it to happen? Answer: fire on board a ferry at sea. Big panic, emergency services deployed, many people affected, substantial delays, probably enquiry, identification of cause etc. etc.The third question is: what can be done to avert the risk? Answer: turn off the gas. Takes 30 seconds - while in any case waiting 30 minutes to board!Refusal to take this simple step: without price! Besides all of which, whereas Truma may say it is "safe" to run with the gas on, they do not say it is safe to use ferries with the gas on, whereas all the ferry companies say this is unsafe.If you are prepared to take the general advice of Truma (a company), why reject the specific advice (and condition of carriage) of a ferry company (another company)? From what you say, it seems you are being rather selective when deciding which company's advice you will follow, favouring that which makes life easier for you over that which imposes a very small extra effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 What were the chances of a ferry leaving port with the loading doors wide open ? I think we would have all said its too ridiculous to contemplate.Although the ferries have sprinkler systems fitted on the car decks, if a fire took hold it would rapidly spread and soon be impossible to gain entry to extinguish it. Ships crew's rightly fear a fire on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Tyke Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Hello all, just a reply to Clives questions - Our gas is only "on" on site, or lay-by when making a brew. When we are travelling it is turned "off" - it takes little time to do this and turn back "on" when required. The risk of an incident being low......Hmmm......the right mix of air and gas makes a bloody big bang...............not for me thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 We always travelled with the gas switched off but the hassle of doing so was the justification for getting the SecuMotion. The thought of an accident, with a (heavy) tank being ripped from its housing, spraying gas was enough to convince me. But of course accidents only happen to someone else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterrosey Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 This thread is quite eye-opening... and no I have no specific issues with the SecuMotion system. It horrifies me that so many people keep their gas on while on the move. We all forget to switch if off from time to time, but to actively keep it on seems a bit naive to me. And to keep it on while on the ferry is just selfish to the other passengers in my eyes. Still if it keeps your sausages cool, who cares about the live of others?!! Fridges run quite happily on 12V when you're on the move (and it's easy enough to put the gas on when you stop for lunch etc), while most vehicles come with heaters - Brazilian VW Type 2s excepted. So why keep it on? Laziness? It's such a big chore to have to open a locker and turn a knob, after all... Sever a rubber hose / metal pipe in a crash and gas gets pumped out very rapidly due to the pressure. LPG fires can't be contained - the fire services response to LPG fires is evacuate the area and let it burn out. It's different to a vehicles fuel tank for several key reasons: it's under pressure, it more rapidly turns to a volatile gas and it ignites more easily. Diesel not under pressure isn't that easy to light (remember it gets squashed to about a 20th of its original volume in the engine when it ignites due to the heat this causes). So to compare gas to 'always on' fuel lines makes no sense. I accept that we do live in a real nanny state and leaving the gas on doesn't make you a murderer, but why leave it on? There's no advantage in doing so. And it costs you more money. But hey the 'active gas leaver-oners' know best, don't they? They're all brilliant drivers and no-one will ever run into them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 How would you deal with LPG powered vehicles, peterrosey - 2009-12-07 11:40 AM Sever a rubber hose / metal pipe in a crash and gas gets pumped out very rapidly due to the pressure. LPG fires can't be contained - the fire services response to LPG fires is evacuate the area and let it burn out. It's different to a vehicles fuel tank for several key reasons: it's under pressure, it more rapidly turns to a volatile gas and it ignites more easily. Diesel not under pressure isn't that easy to light (remember it gets squashed to about a 20th of its original volume in the engine when it ignites due to the heat this causes). So to compare gas to 'always on' fuel lines makes no sense. I accept that we do live in a real nanny state and leaving the gas on doesn't make you a murderer, but why leave it on? There's no advantage in doing so. And it costs you more money. But hey the 'active gas leaver-oners' know best, don't they? They're all brilliant drivers and no-one will ever run into them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Maybe http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/danger.html might point the way. My gas cyinders are held in place with a couple flexiable bands, (I have seen ties for trees made of stronger material), and a flexible rubber pipe. I have not done my M(V squared) sums, but my meeting another vehicle head on at 30 mph would probably unleash my gas cylinders with the weight of a medium sized elephant. Having the gas valve turned on spraying liquid gas as it hurtles through the air, ending in fireball, does make me think that should just stick with a wood burner in the M/caravan. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J Thompson Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 With a properly designed system there is nothing wrong with running live gas such as SecuMotion or a bulk tank. Propex produce gas heater that can be used on the move. If you have a Motorhome that uses the caravan style of of gas locker with bottles secured only, by placing them in a well with a strap around the middle of them, then definitely turn your gas off. I have seen the results of a caravan accident with gas bottles in the locker breaking loose. Fortunately they were turned off at the time. The older method used in the 60s and 70s where the bottle was secured by a clamp under the bottle onto the draw-bar was much safer in my opinion. With regard to cab heaters. Some A Class Motorhome are built on chassis with heater system designed for the size of a 2 or 3 man vehicle cab, with a solid back behind the driver/passengers seats. They were never designed to heat the bulk of a Motorhome. My Motorhome a Mercedes 410D chassis Hymer, has a cab heating system that is totally useless. The demisting isn't much better with the windscreen set 2 ft further forward than the original windscreen, with the demisters still in the original position in the dashboard. The vehicle is also wider and the side windows are now about a foot away from the side demisting vents. That is why we run our space heating while on the move. It keeps the whole interior warm and makes driving safer. Fairy Liquid on a pad, rubbed over all of the cab windows, ensures misting is restricted as it stops the drops of water forming. Van conversions may be able to use the vehicle cab heating, but I doubt if many coachbuilts can. A Bulk tank as used to supply gas to my system is designed like the SecuMotion to cut off the supply if excess gas escapes. Vehicle tanks for LPG propulsion have the same equipment built into their tanks. This same system cut off my gas supply while on a site without hookup last week. I was drawing to much gas to keep the fridge, two heaters, water heater, LPG generator and two hob ring going. I still had two rings to go for a full system. I run my fridge on 12v while on the road. Even with a bulk tank the gas must be turned off when on a ferry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Highe Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi It looks, from Brian Kirby's explanation, that it is safe enough to use gas on the move if you have a Secumotion device fitted. If not you would be mad, or even criminally insane, to do so - especially as there is no need to use gas on the move. How often do you need to heat the van more than the engine heater can? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 ALWAYS OFF If I knew how to do it, would post a photo of our van , with a small car "attached " to the nearside, missing the gas locker by inches. We were parked up at the time. Just got the van back back after three months in the repairers. So ALWAYS OFF. Pauline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi, Does anyone know where you can purchase one of these SecuMotion devices and how much they cost, as they seem like a good safe solution to provide heating in the habitation area when moving. I have tried googling but it only comes up with details of the device, rather than where to purchase and a price. Thanks for any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J Thompson Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 From Here http://www.leisure-supplies.co.uk/productdetails.php?id=27 cost £56.00 Any Truma Stockist should have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Highe Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi And if that isn't enough information, try this http://www.truma.com/truma05/en/service/detail_en_701.html Which will tell you how to find a dealer Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thank you for the link, I wonder why my googling didn't list it, they are reasonably priced I really thought they would be more expensive than £56 Thanks John J Thompson - 2009-12-08 3:58 PM From Here http://www.leisure-supplies.co.uk/productdetails.php?id=27 cost £56.00 Any Truma Stockist should have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 If you have more than one cylinder, there is also an auto-changeover valve that fits direct to the SecuMotion (called DriveSafe in UK) regulator, making a quite neat job overall. I'd suggest you speak to Truma before ordering, just to make sure you get exactly the right one. From memory they do 8mm and 10mm pipe connections to suit differing demand levels. Also remember that if using heating while on the move, there is no built in cut off when the ignition is turned off, which will possibly cause you problems at filling stations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Hi, Thanks for the input i will take into account the very valid points you raise.Just checking and it seems the normal Truma regulator is £44 and that's without any connection hose, just wondering if the SecuMotion valve would be a more sensible alternative if you ever needed to replace your existing regulator, for those forgetful moments when you perhaps inadvertently forget to turn your gas off, like a lot of us do.Brian Kirby - 2009-12-08 4:42 PMIf you have more than one cylinder, there is also an auto-changeover valve that fits direct to the SecuMotion (called DriveSafe in UK) regulator, making a quite neat job overall. I'd suggest you speak to Truma before ordering, just to make sure you get exactly the right one. From memory they do 8mm and 10mm pipe connections to suit differing demand levels. Also remember that if using heating while on the move, there is no built in cut off when the ignition is turned off, which will possibly cause you problems at filling stations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timndelia Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Has anyone fitted the SecuMotion to a Gaslow system? We have their twin bottle with auto change regulator set up. Really only want it to ensure safety when driving in very cold weather (ie Alps) so the water dump valve doesn't operate. I don't like to use the 'peg' method when temperatures drop really low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 timndelia - 2009-12-19 11:56 AM Has anyone fitted the SecuMotion to a Gaslow system? We have their twin bottle with auto change regulator set up. Really only want it to ensure safety when driving in very cold weather (ie Alps) so the water dump valve doesn't operate. I don't like to use the 'peg' method when temperatures drop really low. I think you would need to consult both Gaslow, and Truma, for their recommendations.The Gaslow cylinder would have to be connected to the SecuMotion regulator using Truma connector hoses, because these incorporate an essential safety cut off valve.The Gaslow cylinders are filled with Autogas, which is a variable mix of butane and propane, and may contain other components not normally present in the exchange cylinders the SecuMotoin regulator is commonly used on.Truma may feel this variability in Autogas across Europe could compromise their system, or the hoses themselves. Equally, Gaslow may have reservations about the Truma hoses in conjunction with their system.Either may have actual licensing problems with the mix of components you propose.If using the heating while driving, bear in mind the risk on filling station forecourts. The heater would be liable to ingest any fuel fumes present, with possibly spectacular results! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I did spend quite a bit of time trying to find a fitting that would connect the Truma cut-off valve at the tank end (see Brian's photo) to a Gaslow stainless hose. The idea was to to avoid any potential leaching out from the rubber hose into the regulator. I failed so all you can do is try and ensure that the top of the regulator is as high as possible so that if there are any residues from the gas they will hopefully drain back to the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 You should bear in mind that a SecuMotion regulator is not 'one size fits all'. There are 3 different flow-rates and, to function effectively as a safety device, the regulator must matched to the motorhome's gas demand. If you want to protect against potential road-traffic accident damage (and don't understand the SecuMotion system), you'd be better off just fitting the SecuMotion hose and forget about the regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Tyke Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hmm, this IS an interesting topic.......Will these fellow motorhomers who drive with gas heaters and fridges on tell me what they do when they fill up with fuel......? Do they turn them off before they enter a filling station...and then relight them in a safe place after they have left...? Leave the heaters on and risk it.....? Come, don't be shy let us all know...please ps Gas fueled vehicles don't have naked flames and are turned off when filling (Well should be, but who knows these days?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Mick, In answer to your question our fridge is a manual selection so is always set to 12v when driving and only ever turned to gas when parked up safely. Our gas fire is not suitable for use when driving so again that is turned off until parked. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Travelling Tyke - 2009-12-21 6:03 PM Hmm, this IS an interesting topic.......Will these fellow motorhomers who drive with gas heaters and fridges on tell me what they do when they fill up with fuel......? Do they turn them off before they enter a filling station...and then relight them in a safe place after they have left...? Leave the heaters on and risk it.....? Come, don't be shy let us all know...please ps Gas fueled vehicles don't have naked flames and are turned off when filling (Well should be, but who knows these days?) It's highly unlikely that any UK motorcaravanner deliberately travels with a fridge operating on gas (though I did it once accidentally). I'm also doubtful that they use gas heaters while travelling a) because the practice runs contrary to UK motorcaravanning 'culture' and b) because only a relatively limited number of motorhomes will have heating appliances that will tolerate such treatment. What I'm suggesting is that, as your question assumes a scenario that probably doesn't occur, you shouldn't expect directly related answers. If there actually are any forum members that use gas heating 'en route', then it's probable that they adopt the common-sense precaution you mention in your para 2. If they don't, then it's equally probable that they won't be daft enough to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Travelling Tyke - 2009-12-21 6:03 PM Hmm, this IS an interesting topic.......Will these fellow motorhomers who drive with gas heaters and fridges on tell me what they do when they fill up with fuel......? Do they turn them off before they enter a filling station...and then relight them in a safe place after they have left...? Leave the heaters on and risk it.....? Come, don't be shy let us all know...please ps Gas fueled vehicles don't have naked flames and are turned off when filling (Well should be, but who knows these days?) Although, according to Truma, I can leave the heater on while traveling I have never found it is required, the cab heater is fine. My fridge will switch over to whatever supply is available so will be on 12v electric while travelling but will switch to gas when stopped but not on 'hook up'. If I pull in for fuel it will switch to gas but understand their is a delay to it doing this. In answer to your question my gas never gets turned off at the bottles except when the van is not being used, my fridge stays on while filling up with fuel. The only exception to this is when I need to top up my gas, it has to turned of at the bottle,s to do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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