GypsyTom Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Rayjsj - 2010-02-07 3:55 PMGypsy Tom, You are like a dog with a bone, Forums are ALL about people giving THEIR opinions about the various problems that crop up. Usually that means that folk do so freely and everyone gets enlightened and sometimes entertained, with You it is all about personal animosity to anyone who doesn't happen to agree with you. I will avoid any thread that you get involved with in future, as it will almost certainly descend into useless argument. Bye Bye ! *-) ps you don't own a lurcher and Tarmac drives do you ? he he.pps Derek, Thankyou for the useful information. Ray Can I remind you what Derek Uzzell said in response to my post to him - he said: "Anyone with an atom of experience of internet forums will be well aware that the ratio of reaction to proaction and rant to research is monumentally high, so the chances are minimal that Hobby(UK) would be 'swamped' with enquiries." That was insulting and unnecessary but I notice that you're not criticising him. This whole thread has been a disgrace with so many people willing to jump on this dealer without even waiting for the answer that he said he would elicit from Hobby as soon as he could. One person has gone so far as to imply dishonesty. It looks as though it will now turn out just as I predicted and that there are in fact no rats to be smelled and that it's all been a huge misunderstanding from when Poppy's husband rang Hobby and somehow picked up the information that there are no more RHD models available for the rest of this model year but that all orders have been fulfilled. I would also add what was said by another contributor about Judgemental's attacks on me: "It would seem anyone who does not agree with you JudgeMental is verbally abused by you, if you cannot stand a slap on the wrist for being offensive to Tom and take the post in the way it was meant I feel sorry for you" I don't see you criticising Judgemental either! But he's a 'regular' isn't he and they can say or do anything as far as you are concerned it would appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 Tom I think there was an error on someones part and no, it wasn't just a misunderstanding and failure to be more honest and upfront about it all caused us a lot of worry.There was no attempt to defraud us and I accept that but they did a very good imitation and most people would have been upset.However alls well that ends well I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 They still have your van which they have converted into cash and it is sitting in their account and not yours *-) who in the chain has failed you? as it appears you are getting next years build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 GypsyTom - 2010-02-07 12:49 PM Presumably, having now ascertained the true situation you are no longer advocating that people tie up Hobby UK's switchboard enquiring about a problem that has never directly concerned them? There's no guarantee that I have "ascertained the true situation", as all I've done is summarise part of a phone conversation I had with a UK Hobby dealership. As things have now moved on, I'm doubtful that there's much benefit in forum members contacting Hobby(UK) (unless of course they've got a new Hobby on order themselves and now have misgivings over delivery) though I may well progress the matter myself. In January 2005, when I was in the process of ordering my own Hobby motorhome (admittedly in LHD format and from a German dealership), I was advised that a standard no-frills version could be delivered in June of that year or, if I specified the Ford "Flex-pack" option, delivery would be in July. These dates apparently were 'driven' by Ford's own production schedule for the FWD platform-cab chassis on which all Transit-based Hobbys were then built. I chose to have Flex-Pack and delivery was indeed in July. I'm not sure when Poppy's order was placed (I'm guessing late-November 2009), but I would have thought it was early enough in Hobby's 2009/2010 ordering time-frame to have anticipated delivery of the converted motorhome well before September 2010. I don't know when she was originally told her new Hobby would arrive, but I'm certain it would have been in the reasonably near future, otherwise she would have hung on to her Hymer. I certainly wouldn't want to have contacted the UK Hobby importer and been told that no RHD motorhomes would be built in 2010 and then discover that the dealership from which I'd recently ordered my new motorhome was unaware of this. As far as I'm concerned there are still question-marks over this: if nothing else, there seems to be an odd lack of communication between the Hobby factory, UK importer and UK dealerships. One thing's for sure, whoever is at fault it isn't Poppy. (Incidentally, I asked my wife to read this thread and it caused her great glee. She suggested that I politely tell you to"Go **** yourself!", but I'm far too genteel to do that. ;-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Derek Uzzell - 2010-02-07 6:39 PMGypsyTom - 2010-02-07 12:49 PMPresumably, having now ascertained the true situation you are no longer advocating that people tie up Hobby UK's switchboard enquiring about a problem that has never directly concerned them? (Incidentally, I asked my wife to read this thread and it caused her great glee. She suggested that I politely tell you to"Go **** yourself!", but I'm far too genteel to do that. ;-)) What an extremely rude woman your wife appears to be. I'm very glad that you are more genteel than she is. I'm also delighted that you now acknowledge that it was foolish and wrong to encourage people to phone Hobby over a problem that is of no direct concern to them. Even though it was your wife that allegedly said these disgusting words I'm sorry that you feel the need to bring this debate down to this level just because I had the temerity to criticise your ill-judged remarks. I am happy that Poppy's problem now appears to be solved. Her attitude to the dealer and his dilemma has been most reasonable, unlike many others who couldn't wait a day or so before making the most damaging comments about Hartley's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 We ordered in November and expected our new van at the end of February or very early March.We certainly wouldn't have parted with the Hymer if we had anticipated much longer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Poppy - 2010-02-07 7:36 PMWe ordered in November and expected our new van at the end of February or very early March.We certainly wouldn't have parted with the Hymer if we had anticipated much longer! I'm glad that your problem seems to have been solved. Have you definitely now ascertained that you will get delivery of your RHD Hobby as originally promised by the dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Knowledge is strength. Negotiations always run better when one negotiates from a position of strength. Finding out the precise legal position via Trading Standards, whilst making it clear to TS that this is for info only at this stage, makes perfect sense. I woud consult the CAB too on the same basis if it were me as they seem to have access to many specialist lawyers. That said as you currently have a good rapport with the dealer there is nothing to be gained by antagonising him now. Experience suggests that, with honourable dealers at least, negotiations made with a firm stance and pleasant smile remain most likely to get best results soonest. DVLA might be able to tell you the current registered owner or trader - but they are not known for their cooperation - why not phone them and ask? Please people - when replying to postings do try and take a less aggressive stance as antagonism breeds antagonism and in the end helps nobody. Replying to the points made without personal insults and/or rubbishing the other person's point of view is not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Derek - ref your last paragraph ... Derek Uzzell - 2010-02-07 6:39 PM (Incidentally, I asked my wife to read this thread and it caused her great glee. She suggested that I politely tell you to"Go **** yourself!", but I'm far too genteel to do that. ;-)) I don't think that is possible in GypsyTom's case as he's already got his head stuck up there! :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Mel B - 2010-02-07 8:02 PM I don't think that is possible in GypsyTom's case as he's already got his head stuck up there! :-> Now, now, Mel - you won't get Hull appointed European City of Culture 2099 with theories like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Mel B - 2010-02-07 8:02 PMDerek - ref your last paragraph ... Derek Uzzell - 2010-02-07 6:39 PM(Incidentally, I asked my wife to read this thread and it caused her great glee. She suggested that I politely tell you to"Go **** yourself!", but I'm far too genteel to do that. ;-))I don't think that is possible in GypsyTom's case as he's already got his head stuck up there! :-> This is rich! You ought to go back and read your advice to Poppy! You were one of the main ones who was unwilling to give the dealer a day to check if the advice Poppy's husband had been given by Hobby was wrong, which it looks as if it was! Talk about barrack-room lawyer! I'm actually feeling quite smug now that my forecast that all this would be a storm in a tea-cup turned out to be true and that the dealer has in no way been dishonest or done anything wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Dear, dear, dear me ..... careful Tom, you'll give yourself a verbal enema at this rate! :D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Oh, and Tom, if you're going to throw stones at least make sure you pick up the right ones in the first place, I gave advice as to how to be 'prepared' for a visit to the dealer in case it was needed .... this is the end of my original posting to jog your memory: Mel B - 2010-02-05 6:02 PM ... and aren't going to be fobbed off, not that I think you will be as hopefully they are one of the better dealerships (I have no experience of them), but better to be prepared nontheless. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Please people - when replying to postings do try and take a less aggressive stance as antagonism breeds antagonism and in the end helps nobody. Replying to the points made without personal insults and/or rubbishing the other person's point of view is not that hard. a very good point Tracker Tom seems to be getting uncalled for aggressive posts from lots of you that should know better and as expert posters some should be setting an example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Agree some people do get far too agressive instead of using forum to share ideas, places to stay etc. (We have experienced this ourselves when running various threads about staying on aires). The thread Berti is running on his trip to Portugal is an example of what we should be aiming for; good humoured and useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 There are still outstanding issues and problems Tom.We are just crossing our fingers and hoping this will work.If it doeswork we do get amotorhome for the summer and a RHD vehicle of choice in the autumn.If it doesn't we loosethe loan van plus £28000 that the dealer has of ours!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Mel B - 2010-02-07 10:47 PMOh, and Tom, if you're going to throw stones at least make sure you pick up the right ones in the first place, I gave advice as to how to be 'prepared' for a visit to the dealer in case it was needed .... this is the end of my original posting to jog your memory:Mel B - 2010-02-05 6:02 PM... and aren't going to be fobbed off, not that I think you will be as hopefully they are one of the better dealerships (I have no experience of them), but better to be prepared nontheless.Good luck. And I'll remind you of the start of your post which said: "What a sorry state .... It is absolutely disgusting that the dealer was not aware of the state of play - they should have been in touch with the manufacturer at least weekly to keep apprised of what's going on and any issues - I don't see how they can have done this otherwise they would have been fully aware. " It is now clear that the information obtained by Poppy's husband, that Hobby is no longer making RHD vehicles, is completely wrong. There was no change of the 'state of play' that the dealer should have been aware of! You then go on advising her how to screw out a bit more money from the dealer by forcing out a few tears! Have you no shame! If this had been one of those old westerns where a bunch of bigoted rednecks try to hang an innocent man, you and a couple of other 'regulars' would have been leading the lynch mob that has appeared in this thread over the last two days. I was prepared to give the dealer time to get hold of Hobby and see if Poppy's fears were based on fact. It's a pity that others weren't, as an honest and long-established trader has been unfairly denigrated by thoughtless and in some cases, vicious people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Good morning robertandjean :-D Some issues are more contentious and will inevitably polarise opinion, and this is a serious subject. Everyone was more or less in agreement until Tom inflamed the situation and started personally criticising others opinions and he is still doing it *-) In December Tom was asking on here in a thread "Ford or Fiat" in relation to the Hobby he was considering. He has said his Hobby van is on the way presumably from the same dealer as he holds them in such high regard. Poppy on the other hand ordered her van in November and it is not arriving in the next month as promised. She has to wait for next years build and will not get her new van till the end of 2010. Furthermore the dealer asked for her van in advance and converted it into cash which is sitting in his bank account. :-S Someone is being disingenuous by not admitting what the hell has gone wrong with this order. Someone is at fault here and a mistake has been made along the order/manufacturing supply chain, in all probability its a communication problem. That the dealer has rallied and lent Poppy a decent van to use in the meantime is great, and well done. but someone is at fault here, and I know its not Poppy. On top of all this it has just started snowing again in London:-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 JudgeMental - 2010-02-08 8:30 AM That the dealer has rallied and lent Poppy a decent van to use in the meantime is great, and well done. but someone is at fault here, and I know its not Poppy. What the dealer has done is helpful but not good enough to protect Poppy's finances. As I said on the other thread: "If the dealer goes bump between now & September the van you are driving is theirs & unless you received cash for your van you will have lost everything. Sorry for being so negative but dealers do go bust as I said on the original thread it happened to a friend of mine in a space of 5 days, you are talking about 7 months. " Poppy really must do something about securing her cash in the present economic climate even the best dealers could go bust. When I brought my van I took a bank draft with me when I collected, it would have been cheaper to transfer the money but for the reasons above I did not want the dealer to have my money even for a few days. Easier when buying in the UK you can just pay on collection with your debit card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Gypsytom, no aggro from me, could you please answer the following questions with a well thought out and reasoned reply:- 1. Why should the dealer keep Poppy's money in his Bank?? 2. If your answer is that the dealer should keep the money then do you intend to give him some of yours for safekeeping against possible future purchases.?? Maybee you could start a new trend whereby the dealer gives previous and loyal customers some of his money to hold. What has a reputable dealer got to loose by handing the money back, nothing. What happens if Hobby decide not to include the ordered model in their 2010/2011 line up. We are dealing with real people and real lives here and worries can cause all sorts of health problems and 10 months is a long time to worry. Better to draw a line under this whole sorry story, go back to square one all be it that Poppy has Money and not her van. Let all of us learn from this tale of woe and look forward to happy times in the future. Good Luck Poppy, if only you had Gypsy Tom in your corner asking for your money back then you would be a happy bunnie sooner. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Let's get one thing straight. I have never once commented on the deal that Poppy did with the dealer. She obviously allowed him to sell her 'van as the new one was presumably coming and I suppose that the thinking was that it may as well be sold rather than sitting on her drive. Personally I would not have done this and yes, if the dealer has sold the 'van and hers isn't coming for some time she should have the money and not him. If you'll read back from my original thread you will see that my entire complaint about certain members of this forum is that after Poppy had informed the dealer that her husband had been led to believe that RHD models are no longer being built the dealer expressed surprise at this and promised to find out exactly what was happening. Before he had been given the chance to respond out came the dogs. It was 'disgusting' that he didn't know this news (it turns out that there was no news to know). There were implications of dishonesty, with people telling Poppy to look around the back of the showroom and see if the 'van was being hidden! Not one of the people who posted originally seemed prepared to wait for the dealer to respond as he promised. They couldn't even give him a day or so before accusing him of all sorts of malpractice. Look at my first post and you will see that the entire direction was about one thing, which is being fair and giving this man a chance. Unfortunately, this meant disagreeing with Judgemental who we all know will not tolerate such things! I was then labelled a troll, just because I was trying to bring some balance into the debate and I'm grateful to those later posters who pointed this out. Earlier, I used the term 'lynch mob' and that's what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I have read through this thread again and as far as I can see the only comments regards "searching the dealer's premises in case he's hiding the 'van around the back." came from you Tom. Do you think you can refrain from ranting? then I can refrain from responding and upsetting you. For once you started of reasonably and then started regurgitating all your nonsense again. I find it peculiar that I seem to be the centre of your angst, when we have had agreeable exchanges in the past.... I apologise for upsetting you, life is to short to hold grudges........but you cant enter the forum saying we are hysterical without any real foundation and expect no come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 JudgeMental - 2010-02-08 11:52 AMI have read through this thread again and as far as I can see the only comments regards "searching the dealer's premises in case he's hiding the 'van around the back." came from you Tom.Do you think you can refrain from ranting? then I can refrain from responding and upsetting you. For once you started of reasonably and then started regurgitating all your nonsense again. I find it peculiar that I seem to be the centre of your angst, when we have had agreeable exchanges in the past....I apologise for upsetting you, life is to short to hold grudges........but you cant enter the forum saying we are hysterical without any real foundation and expect no come back. When you respond it's a response but if I respond it's a rant! I was asked to by the poster above who wanted my opinion on whether the dealer should keep the part-ex money so I responded to him. Please read more carefully before you accuse me of inventing things. This was posted by RolandRat on page 1 of this thread. 'Poppy if you don't live to far away from the dealer go and see if your motorhome is still there, have a good look around including round the back of their premises, put out to trade could mean anything. There are a few dealers in their area so you could call and see if it has been passed on or not. You should have been told straight away as soon your motorhome had been disposed of as well. Has the dealer acted lawfully? Did you keep a set of keys until your new motorhome was handed over? Hopefully the dealer will act in an honourable manner and all will be well. Good Luck.' I suppose an apology is out of the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 "I suppose an apology is out of the question?" you suppose wrong....I apologise (again):-D Simply did not see Rolandrats contribution. Poor eyesight, not an excuse mind, I did read through it all again twice before saying what I said. maybe the rat I smelt was Roland...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 JudgeMental - 2010-02-08 12:39 PM"I suppose an apology is out of the question?"you suppose wrong....I apologise (again):-D Simply did not see Rolandrats contribution. Poor eyesight, not an excuse mind, I did read through it all again twice before saying what I said.maybe the rat I smelt was Roland...... Apology accepted, let's bring this to an end. Poppy is sorted out, the dealer has been honourable and all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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