Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen transmission defect (6)

[bazooka]

Sorry about the quadruple post it didn't seem to be going ,imust have been over exited at hearing the good news '

ps must report severe judder to fiat it seems to get attention!

baz

[rupert123]

I would be astonished if Fiat were not sending out vans with the lower reverse gear now. The lack of activity on this thread now would seem to be postive. Threads on other forums died some time ago.

[euroserv]

As far as the parts system is concerned, most (but not all) versions of the 2.2 and 2.3 engined Ducato's have a modified gearbox fitted from the factory if built after April 2009. This would seem to include many of the mods that have been carried out to earlier vans where the customer has complained.

 

Please be aware that there have been no modifications at all to 3.0 engined versions and there has not been any admission that there is a fault, and no repairs that I have heard of so far.

 

There are also a large number of owners of 2.2 and 2.3 vans that have not experienced/reported a problem so they have not been modified. I am sure that when a problem does occur and the vehicle is out of warranty, the owners will trade them in pretty sharpish! Don't buy anything without driving it in reverse up a slope and making sure that you are happy that it does not judder and that you are happy with how fast you are going once the clutch is fully out.

 

Fiat dealers are reluctant to provide proof by documentation for any modifications so used camper dealers will probably not have this to hand. Be a nuisance and ask to speak to the previous owner, and in any case, include in your contract to purchase the vehicle that it must not judder in reverse during the next twelve months or you will want your money back. Any warranty offered will contain clauses and definitions that could well mean that you get no help. Writing a specific condition into the contract ensures that the dealer is responsible and has to honour it.

 

Fiat (once the warranty has expired), will give even less of a toss about your problems than they did in the first 2 or 3 years, so don't expect any help from them. It is up to you to ensure that the deal is good enough, or better still; don't do it!

 

 

Nick

 

 

[Symbol Owner]

Many thanks for that Nick -- still not very encouraging for those of us in the market for a new 'van (particularly P.V.C.'s, Judge, I'm afraid!) and even less so if you wish to buy secondhand.

 

It's still a mess.

 

Colin.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Symbol Owner - 2010-07-16 6:30 PM

Many thanks for that Nick -- still not very encouraging for those of us in the market for a new 'van (particularly P.V.C.'s, Judge, I'm afraid!) and even less so if you wish to buy secondhand. It's still a mess.

Colin.

 

Indeed......It is a very depressing situation, the manufacturers having us by the short and curlys by always building on this base. Maybe the new Ford due 2011 may be a bit wider :-S

 

I really wanted to get away from coachbuilts *-)

[silverback]

sorry to butt in Judge,

but whats the reasoning of going off coachbuilds?

sorry to everyone for going off O/P

but im sure it will go back

jonathan

[colin]

rupert123 - 2010-07-16 3:40 PM

 

I would be astonished if Fiat were not sending out vans with the lower reverse gear now. The lack of activity on this thread now would seem to be postive. Threads on other forums died some time ago.

 

I've calculated 2+2 and come up with 42 ;-)

 

IMO there will never be a 100% garrenteed fix of this problem on the current chassis, most vans coming out the factory now are ok it appears, but there are still some that judder, a convertor had delivered a fully modded van which in his words was the worse judderer he had encountered. :-(

Myself, I need to get on with life and have ordered a new van and have my fingers crossed that it doesn't judder, but knowing my luck it will. :-S

[Guest JudgeMental]

silverback - 2010-07-16 8:46 PM

 

sorry to butt in Judge,

but whats the reasoning of going off coachbuilds?

sorry to everyone for going off O/P

but I'm sure it will go back

jonathan

 

My teenagers after this summers jaunt to Italy ar unlikely to come with thus in the summer...so for all our other trips as a couple, we dont really need such a big van.

 

In 3.4 year we have done only 14000 miles and I think we will get more multifunctionional use from a PVC, rather then a big coachbuilt. That just spends most of the time sitting on our hard stand. plus we are downsizing house so parking may be an issue in the future

 

easier to drive and manoeuvre.....easier to repair? just take it to any car body shop?

 

can be parked and used a bit like a car?

 

easier to set up, and use so probably will be used more often....

 

we like holidaying abroad in the winter, so dont see the point in an expensive replacement coachbuilt... rather use the money for proper experiences further afield

 

that is it really.... :-D

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

JudgeMental - 2010-07-16 11:54 PM ... rather use the money for proper experiences further afield that is it really.... :-D

Your Lordship should look to his avatar when discoursing on what he may construe "proper" experiences.  I suspect many of your Lordship's readers may construe his intentions contrariwise!  :-D

[Guest JudgeMental]

Brian Kirby - 2010-07-17 12:10 PM

JudgeMental - 2010-07-16 11:54 PM ... rather use the money for proper experiences further afield that is it really.... :-D

Your Lordship should look to his avatar when discoursing on what he may construe "proper" experiences.  I suspect many of your Lordship's readers may construe his intentions contrariwise!  :-D

Bless you dear boy.......Lady things are an inevitable distraction, but travel moi's true love*-)

[Mike88]

The 3 litre Comfortmatic Ducato is a fabulous drive with car like performance on a panel van. The gearbox is amazingly smooth. The only problem is the high cost but its a price worth paying in order to avoid the problematic judder issue in my view.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Mike88 - 2010-07-18 9:20 AM

 

The 3 litre Comfortmatic Ducato is a fabulous drive with car like performance on a panel van. The gearbox is amazingly smooth. The only problem is the high cost but its a price worth paying in order to avoid the problematic judder issue in my view.

 

There are a few 3 litre auto PVCs around for sale in Germany. Like you say they cost a bit more...surely extra power probably unnecessary in a panel van though.

 

But I have seen nothing definitive saying these autos are immune from problems. I would definitely take this option if it was the case......a trouble free fiat would be something wouldn't it :-S

 

 

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

It is not just the extra power that you get with the 3.0 litre engine; it is smoother, quieter and more flexible. Perfect for a relaxing drive. I have done many miles in the extra long panel van with 3.0 and comfort matic and can honestly say that it is marvellous. Yes it is more expensive but I am certain that it is worth it.

 

Nick

[Guest JudgeMental]

euroserv - 2010-07-19 11:29 AM

 

Hello,

 

It is not just the extra power that you get with the 3.0 litre engine; it is smoother, quieter and more flexible. Perfect for a relaxing drive. I have done many miles in the extra long panel van with 3.0 and comfort matic and can honestly say that it is marvellous. Yes it is more expensive but I am certain that it is worth it.

 

Nick

 

Thanks Nick

 

would you say it is a less risky purchase as well?

[Guest Tracker]

So even when your 2.2 or 2.3 has been 'fixed' and it is maybe better but still not right and the payback for you with the compliments of Fiat is more noise at motorway speeds along with the benefit of less mpg?

 

Kinda takes away the alleged benefits of the alleged smoother, quieter more economical all new since 2006 Ducato dunnit?

 

Four years to get it right and still Fiat are bodging the fix on new vans factory fresh rather than fitting a new transmission with just a low reverse gear so that you can go backwards at a safe and appropriate speed and the same final drive ratio so that you can enjoy economical and quiet touring.

 

I still don't want one - new or used thanks very much - although I might be tempted into a 3.0 comfortmatic one day!

[andy mccord]

Quick question aimed at Nick please, my van is going in for its 2nd year service soon, & I have noticed since having both mods done for judder, there is a distinct rattle at the front of the engine on tickover, im sure I read somewhere what the cause of this is? can you enlightem me please Nick

 

Regards

Andy

[euroserv]

Hi Andy,

 

There was some conjecture on this subject a while back suggesting that it was due to straight cut gears and other such nonsense. For the record just about all vehicles use straight cut gears for reverse. There is no difference between the pre and post mod gears except the number of teeth and slight differences in sizes. There is just not enough room in the box for any major changes without compromises.

 

However;

 

It is imperative that these gearboxes are correctly 'shimmed' when reassembled as incorrect clearance can cause accelerated wear in the bearings or looseness which you would hear as a rattle.

 

You only get a set of shims with the bearing kit and this is not part of the fix kit. This concerns me because it assumes that all was well with the bearings and tolerances from the factory, and that juddering does not throw things out of whack.

 

Take it back to where the job was done and let them know that you are concerned. If I am right and you don't get it sorted out before the end of the warranty the box will have to come out again and the bearing kit fitted. Probably at your cost.

 

Nick

 

PS; Yes your honour, it would seem less risky. You will get more for it later on too. Mine came with a leather steering wheel that I was not expecting and it was love at first sight!

[kevina]

I've just collected our Rapido 2.3 after intervention B.

 

1. Reverse is significantly slower, if a little more whine. The little judder we had has gone to the extent that I can smoothly reverse up a moderate (tarmac) slope without touching the accelerator at all. (only test so far but repeated 4 times and it "feels" better).

 

2. Forward ratio UNCHANGED.

 

3. Gear change smooth as ever.

 

4. Clutch pedal a little lighter?

 

Very happy

 

Kevin

 

[andy mccord]

Hi Nick,

 

Thanks for your reply, I think ive not worded my questions very well, the engine rattles on tick over and in neutral, so gears are not engaged,

I think considerably more than before the mod? any ideas

 

many thanks

Andy

[euroserv]

Andy,

 

If the engine is rattling that could be any one of a number of unpleasant things but if the sound is coming from the gearbox; my comments are valid.

 

Nick

[Guest Tracker]

Don't most diesel engines start to clatter more as they loosen up with the miles?

[Keithl]

andy mccord - 2010-07-20 12:01 PM

 

Hi Nick,

 

Thanks for your reply, I think ive not worded my questions very well, the engine rattles on tick over and in neutral, so gears are not engaged,

I think considerably more than before the mod? any ideas

 

many thanks

Andy

 

Andy,

 

Try holding the clutch down and engaging a gear and see if the noise changes. This will disconnect the gearbox and stop it's innards from rotating and possibly rattling.

If the rattle goes when you do this then it is coming from within your gearbox and needs attention as Nick has advised.

 

Keith.

[tonyishuk]

I have just collected our M/home from Eurovans in Crawley who carried out the Fiat reverse Mod.

 

I had no trouble with Fiat, or had to convince them that I had a problem. Obviously the message is getting through !

 

To echo Kevina's posting

 

 

kevina - 2010-07-19 10:55 PM

 

I've just collected our Rapido 2.3 after intervention B.

 

 

Not sure what intervention "?" we got but was told that I had new engine mountings, clutch and reverse gear. No mention of lower final drive.

 

1. Reverse is significantly slower, if a little more whine. The little judder we had has gone to the extent that I can smoothly reverse up a moderate (tarmac) slope without touching the accelerator at all. (only test so far but repeated 4 times and it "feels" better).

 

 

Same comment as to the effect. However the M/home still judders but less so when reversing up our steep drive.

 

Reversing on the flat is better and slower, instead of scattering children and chichens, they now hurriedly walk out the way.

 

2. Forward ratio UNCHANGED.

 

 

Seems the same to me.

 

 

3. Gear change smooth as ever.

 

 

Has improved slightly. not so notchy.

 

 

4. Clutch pedal a little lighter?

 

Very happy

 

Kevin

 

 

I would not go as far as "Very Happy" but definately happier.

 

Rgds

[Mike88]

I hope this proves to be an unusual problem with the Comfortmatic.

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-90563.html

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

On the face of it, more a clutch problem than the Comfortmatic per se.  Interesting they also replaced the flywheel, I assume because it was scored, distorted, or fractured.