Guest JudgeMental Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 the compressor kicks in and out all the time...this is normal. have you got the van shut up? windows doors closed? blinds closed? its 30 odd deg today give it a chance To me it sounds like it is working on mains OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hymer1942 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Good morning, I have got to agree with Judge here, for the life of me I cant understand when you live in the climate you do you did not buy a van with cab Air Con, it is second on my want list. Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passera Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 Hymer simply as we were told the 2200 would do both jobs and in our ignorance we went for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Passera - 2010-07-09 12:20 PM Hymer simply as we were told the 2200 would do both jobs and in our ignorance we went for it It will do the job! but not if fitted over the bed *-) You need to get it up front, dealer should do this gratis. what did CA say re alternator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passera Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 judgemental just spoke to Steve Anderson and certainly alternator is more than adequate. He said same as you for driving inasmuch that they recommend unit is situated towards the front and said most dealers fit at the back as it is easy. On the subject of temperature it is not just today. i have run this over many hours over several days with no reduction in temperature whatsoever (maybe 1 degree from 27 to 26C). Always trial with all windows firmly shut and blinds drawn. Steve said that the compressor should run infinitem until temperature requested is acheived and suggested that there should certainly be a good reduction within an hour. He is wondering if it has a faulty thermostat. If I can get no satisfaction from dealer on Monday i have arranged to go to his place on Wednesday. He also said to check cabling size given there is a long distance from Leisure batteries to Alternator. He also recommended a digital thermostat to monitor the temperature emitted with compressor on and off over an hour. Will post again Mon/Tuesday with results. Will post again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 I have spoken to Steve in the past and he is both decent and knowledgeable. If dealer refuses to move unit forward. tell him you are going to get CA to do the work, and send him the bill, and if necessary pursue him through the small claims court. You will need to write to dealer by registered letter explaining you have given him the opportunity to refit the unit and are taking the following action. why in heavens name did you not ask on here regards placement of unit it is a no brainer IMO could have saved yourself all this pain. if stat not working correctly obviously this needs addressing first, but I still think it needs moving even if working correctly, as what with solar gain from windscreen, and air movement while going forward a/c is simply not going to do what you want, placed way back over the bed *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passera Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 judgemental tx sad to say forum and all help available never came on the radar until 2 weeks ago. Going out now and leaving a/c on for about 5 hours -god help electric bill post results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hymer1942 Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Well if we all could see the future there would be choas, but if there is a problem Motorhome related there is nearly always an answer on here, and more than likely the right one. Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Passera - 2010-07-09 1:04 PM judgemental tx sad to say forum and all help available never came on the radar until 2 weeks ago. Going out now and leaving a/c on for about 5 hours -god help electric bill post results well if stat not working as steve suggested dont expect to much? You need to run it at least once a month all year around to lubricate system or else seals can dry out...mine is running at the moment as well. dont take any bull from dealer and get one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Digital-LCD-Thermometer-Hygrometer-Temperature-Gauge-UK-/110556462297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Gadgets&hash=item19bdadbcd9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Frank, Just a thought following on from comments of thermostat not working...where is the stat located? Could it be that the cold air from the unit is blowing straight onto the stat and causing it to trip out prematurely? Try shielding the stat from the airflow or deflecting the air coming out of the roof unit. I know it's a bit of a long shot but just may be something worth looking at. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 there is no separate stat, it is built into a/c unit...at least on mine it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 FrankHas the problem of the batteries running flat when driving been resolved? If all is working properly, that should not happen. There is a definite fault there if the 150A alternator is not providing sufficient charge.From you description, the compressor is failing to run as it should. If the air circulation fans are running, it would seem power is getting to the unit OK, but something is causing the compressor to cut off almost as soon as it starts. That may be a badly sited stat, that is just getting the first puff of cold air onto it, and then "thinks" that means the van is cool. If it is not that, it may be that the amount of refrigerant in the unit is inadequate, or that a control module, relay, or internal stat is duff.I'm afraid I missed some of the above posts, so have only just caught up with your plight. The Dometic units are basically Waeco units, since Dometic bought Waeco a couple of years back. Waeco have mobile refrigeration engineers who service and repair their units, and carry out warranty repairs on them. My response, at present, would be not to go to A N Other, who, with all due respect to them, neither made, not fitted your A/C unit, but to notify Waeco/Dometic your new A/C unit is not functioning properly and the dealer who fitted it can't fix it and ask them to send out an engineer to fix it. If the unit is faulty he should find the fault easily enough, and if the installation is faulty he should be able to find and fix that. If he charges you, you will then at least have the verdict from an authority the dealer will have to accept.My concern with CA, is that your dealer may just regard his interventions as money spinners, and quibble over his findings. Is this the number you have been ringing for Dometic - 0844 626 0133?Regarding the position of the unit, I agree with what has been said, and the dealer has not taken on board your requirements for effective cooling while driving. I don't know whether Dometic make clear the need to site the unit near the cab to benefit from cooling while driving, but if they do you definitely have an argument with the dealer. If Dometic don't make this clear, the argument is rather more difficult to pursue, unless he claimed some expertise in installing A/C units. The installation instructions should give a clue, though.I'm sorry you are still having problems: don't despair, I'm sure they can be resolved, albeit it should not be necessary to do so. Then, you can begin enjoying your van! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passera Posted July 9, 2010 Author Share Posted July 9, 2010 Thanks Brian Your first question is interesting as I really dont know. I have been fire fighting on many fronts all week and somewhat punch drunk. Certainly last Friday after a long drive the red light on the control panel battery indicator was on red. After hook up we have had a few shortish journeys since and it seems OK but as mentioned we have an issue with the fridge not operating on 12v. the knock on is that one reading on the control panel has also failed and the interior electrics are not disconnected when travelling (i am told this should be the case). I really do not know whether they are all interconnected or not. What I am trying to do is home in on a safe bet so to speak. That is the a/c should perform on 240v to whatever level. All discussions i have had and on this forum tell me there should be a distinct cooling albeit not like a domestic a/c system. e.g. I switched it on at 1pm today and returned 6 hours later. the temp in the van was 31C at 1pm and 34c at 6pm with ambient air being emitted not cold. This is clearly not right somewhere and we are in for a long drive back to the dealers on Sunday for them to investigate on Monday plus the fridge. I have tried very hard to speak with Dometic yes on the number you listed but just a message saying they are busy. However I now have e mail dialogue although not overly helpful. Out of the blue a few hours ago their Field engineer called me and we discussed the problem. He too said dealer first but indicated there has to be a problem. At his prompting he said they recommend (to whom?) that the unit on DC kit operation should be mounted at least in a central position in the roof or closer to the driver. I have not and will not mention CA to the dealer but will discuss what Dometics own engineer has said. Incidentally CA said it was not a big job to move the unit forwrad - about 3 hours work including cutting a new roof hole. I also now have a direct line to the engineer and he is expecting me to call on Monday. I just want continued cold air at 240v and 12v with the unit possibly moved. Once that is acheived I can concentrate on battery power at 12v although I will monitor anyway on Sunday during long drive. We were to return to Spain on Monday but have now postponed hoping to resolve the issues. I am in a state of despair but since last night feel there is some progress so fingers crossed. At the moment it is pergatory and stressful and I would like to begin enjoying the van and lifestyle - the sooner the better. Hope to post some good news soon and thanks again to all contributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 sounds like we are getting there.... "with the unit possibly moved" No possibly moved about it...It will not do what you want unless moved. my Waeco 1500 this afternoon was nice and cool within 30-60 minutes. as my daughter refused to clean out camper until it was*-) there are clearly 2 issues: warranty repair on unit (probably internal stat) and moving unit closer to front of van if you can get this done even if it costs you a couple of £ to move, you will have a van that does what you want guareenteed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 9, 2010 Share Posted July 9, 2010 Doh! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Passera - 2010-07-09 7:49 PM Thanks Brian Your first question is interesting as I really dont know. I have been fire fighting on many fronts all week and somewhat punch drunk. Certainly last Friday after a long drive the red light on the control panel battery indicator was on red. After hook up we have had a few shortish journeys since and it seems OK but as mentioned we have an issue with the fridge not operating on 12v. the knock on is that one reading on the control panel has also failed and the interior electrics are not disconnected when travelling (i am told this should be the case). This sounds to me like a failed split charge relay, and ties in neatly with the batteries not charging. When the engine is running, this relay is switched by current from the alternator, so that it directs power to both run the fridge, and to charge the leisure batteries. I should have latched on to that possibility when you first said the fridge wasn't working. When the engine is switched off, the relay opens to isolate the power feed to the fridge, so that it cannot flatten the starter battery, and to isolate the leisure battery from the starter battery, to prevent their fuses being blown during engine starting. Since the fridge isn't working and the leisure batteries aren't charging, duff split charge relay seems likely culprit. Hopefully, one down!I really do not know whether they are all interconnected or not. What I am trying to do is home in on a safe bet so to speak. That is the a/c should perform on 240v to whatever level. All discussions i have had and on this forum tell me there should be a distinct cooling albeit not like a domestic a/c system. e.g. I switched it on at 1pm today and returned 6 hours later. the temp in the van was 31C at 1pm and 34c at 6pm with ambient air being emitted not cold. This is clearly not right somewhere and we are in for a long drive back to the dealers on Sunday for them to investigate on Monday plus the fridge. In principle, it is being fed mains power whether the source is hook-up or batteries, because that is what your inverter is feeding it. So, simply stated, it is not working. Apologies, I know you have already worked that out, but the source of the power is a bit of a red herring. This is 230V kit, that only consumes 230V power - and it ain't doing what it says on the tin. That, I think, is the central issue, plus the little matter of the cost for a non-operational system!I have tried very hard to speak with Dometic yes on the number you listed but just a message saying they are busy. However I now have e mail dialogue although not overly helpful. Out of the blue a few hours ago their Field engineer called me and we discussed the problem. He too said dealer first but indicated there has to be a problem. At his prompting he said they recommend (to whom?) that the unit on DC kit operation should be mounted at least in a central position in the roof or closer to the driver. I have not and will not mention CA to the dealer but will discuss what Dometic's own engineer has said. Incidentally CA said it was not a big job to move the unit forward - about 3 hours work including cutting a new roof hole. I also now have a direct line to the engineer and he is expecting me to call on Monday. Good! hang on to him, he's your best bet! My suggestion would be to try to get him to the dealer's premises while the van is there. May not be on his patch, but it would be the best probable combination. Then, you can sit back while they argue among themselves! You've earned a rest!Regarding the siting of the unit, as you wanted it for driving in Spain when it is hot, and the van has no cab aircon, it should have been fairly obvious to anyone other than a halfwit, that siting the A/C unit a couple of feet from the rear end of the van wasn't the best solution. However, lets just assume the fitter was never properly briefed as to why you wanted it, and just thought of night time comfort. That way you can pretend you are not in the hands of a halfwit - until proved otherwise. :-)I just want continued cold air at 240v and 12v with the unit possibly moved. Once that is achieved I can concentrate on battery power at 12v although I will monitor anyway on Sunday during long drive. We were to return to Spain on Monday but have now postponed hoping to resolve the issues. I am in a state of despair but since last night feel there is some progress so fingers crossed. At the moment it is pergatory and stressful and I would like to begin enjoying the van and lifestyle - the sooner the better. Hope to post some good news soon and thanks again to all contributors. If the split charge relay is the culprit that should be a quite simple fix, and if you can get a Dometic field engineer actively involved, even if you have to resort to bribery, or blubbing, I think he'll get the unit working. They generally have a good reputation for reliability, and despite your experiences so far, Dometic generally seem to sort out faults in their kit with proper diligence, albeit not always at the speed of light, so I think you are a bit nearer escaping to the land of sangria than you may presently think. At least, here's hoping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Nice one Brian! now clearly 3 issues not 2 *-) Warranty repair on unit (probably internal stat) AND/OR split charger fault moving unit closer to front of van I and many others I believe, hardly ever use the fridge on 12v, as it is pretty useless and not thermostacially controlled. I use gas on the move and 230v when available. If the dealer refuses to move it, maybe best to offer to split the cost, and avoid legal rangling then you can get on your way! Nice van by the way, and at least not on a Fiat :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passera Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 Judgemental Somewhere I thought using gas on the move for a fridge was illegal and not a good idea. No doubt you will tell me different. 12v Fridge had to be a concern as in some circumstances we may do 6 hours + on the road. I think the dealer will stand the cost of moving the aircon. Maybe wrong but we will see. They are paying fuel costs for the trip tomorrow. Thank you for comments on the van. Thats always encouraging for a first time buyer. Brian On the subject of the split relay failure as we are assuming. Given that I reckon this failed soon after collecting the vehicle which in turn had the a/c installed is it likely to be a coincidental failure or is there any likelihood it would it have failed due to something in the a/c installation? FYI I tried to get the Dometic field engineer on site Monday but he is based down in west country but offered to be on the end of the phone to help and advise. He also said if we could not get it resolved he would arrange a visit by an engineer albeit we are back on time restraints. Incidentally in past 24 hours I have got the feeling that this installation was not completed by the dealer but contracted off site although no doubt they would have installed to instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 I think the fridge 12 v probably OK and prob due to battery flattening. as for gas on the move, not sure re legality *-) but it is a common practise :-S If dealer pays to move all well and good, but if not, sorry but I think you have some responsibility for this, as you did not specifically say where you wanted it fitted. in your shoes I would offer to contribute just to get on my way :-D are you going to change to spanish gas bottles when back in Spain? have you bought a RHD van? why did you not buy a van in Spain if you live there, as resistering an import van is supposed to be not that easy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passera Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 Yes we bought RHD basically due to cost. Spain has very few dealers and we did visit a fairly large one in Elche that had ONE second hand vehicle. Prices seemed horrendous and choice poor. Insurance is also pretty much a cartel and about 4 times the price paid in UK. We will probably switch to Spanish gas and am aware it is a different fitting. I think you are right about registering on Spanish plates and am told MH used to be quite cheap to do so but now very expensive. Anyway not planning to re register and please lets not discuss that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Passera - 2010-07-10 12:22 PM Anyway not planning to re register and please lets not discuss that one. that is fine so when you say you "live" in Spain, do you really mean is you have a holiday home there? or have you taken up Spanish residence? The reaon i ask is that most UK insurance has limits on how long you spend abroad.....and any withholding of facts means your insurance is probably void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passera Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 After all the discussion about moving the unit I was on the ladder checking out tv and not now sure it can be moved. From the inside there is clearly room between drivers seat and skylight and the ceilng is flat. On the roof I realise that the cab joint with the conversion is only about 35cm from the edge of the skylight trim and at that point the top of the cab begins its curve for the low profile overhang. From the manual I think the hole has to be 40 x 40 Out of my depth here but not sure whether its a good idea or indeed can be done to cut hole across this join particularly if the hole takes in a curve. If it can be done then such is the size of the unit on the roof I think there would be a tremendouse overhang at the front above the cab. Can post photos if it helps. Apologise for new revelation but had not realised about the join - my fault. Unless you can tell my otherwise I think the moving option is now well and truly ********. Incidentally in the installation instructions in the main handbook i found an entry " The air conditioner must be installed right in the middle with respect to the vehicle length and width" I guess that is pretty impossible in most vehicles but it is highlighting the point and this is NOT the 12v handbook. With that option as you have highlighted it is essential to move it forward to get any benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passera Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 "so when you say you "live" in Spain, do you really mean is you have a holiday home there? or have you taken up Spanish residence? The reason i ask is that most UK insurance has limits on how long you spend abroad.....and any withholding of facts means your insurance is probably void." This is all grey area but we are UK residents and until 3 months ago had our own bolt hole here but now our bolt hole is my Mothers address. We went with Safeguard and their insurance is 365 days with no limit on any single trip and this applied to breakdown recovery too. In any case we seldom go more than 120 days before a visit back to UK. As i say it is all grey e.g. if you spend 181 days in Spain or any EU country then you supposed to apply for residence. Great you achieve that and then the next year you spend 181 days back in UK. You can't flip flop for ever more. However we are very careful to try to keep inside the rules. Another strange rule in Spain says you must register on Spanish plates if you drive the vehicle for more than 180 days in any one year. The key word is "drive" How the hell can anyone count how many days you drive a vehicle and prove it. However Spain appears to adopt guilty until you prove otherwise and what a nigtmare that is. Sorry off topic but you asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 interesting stuff re residence etc....as long as insurance valid that is the main thing! I think you need to take a picture of roof from your steps and post it on here The cab join is not what you are looking at. the cab join is where the metal cab meets the overhead extrusion (probaly GRP) just above the windsreen and side windows all the way around...... I think what you are looking at is the join between the front over cab (GRP) pod and the roof of the camper body. I dont see a problem but a few internal and external pics would help I am sitting here with the mother of all ear infections and this is taking ny mind of it! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passera Posted July 10, 2010 Author Share Posted July 10, 2010 2561 is inside looking tw back - thank goodness bed is made. 2564 is inside front showing distance between skylight and cab skylight. 2565 2566 outside pics of roof. hope these appear OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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