Autotrail Frontier 2010 Gas Lockers

[Babs L]

Has anyone out there bought a 2010 model the Frontier Range, specifically Cherokee or Mohawk or Navajo? We bought a new Cherokee from Tyne Valley Motorhomes after studying the specification in the AutoTrail brochure. It says specifically the gas locker holds 2 13kg calor cylinders and we were told the same when we were given the tour of the 'van at Tyne Valley. We now find the lockers are approx 2 1/2 inches too narrow!!!!! AutoTrail say they amended their web-site as an alteration to their specification (see disclaimer on back of brochure) and that only the 'vans on the Al-Ko chassis could hold 2 bottles. The height is correct, the depth is correct but we think a mistake has been made. AutoTrail refuse to co-operate, saying they can alter the size of the interior locker (the outside of the locker needs no alteration, bottle goes in fine) but they cannot quote for the work as they haven't done one and we will have to pay for it. We winter in Spain and asked AutoTrail how we were supposed to carry two 13kg bottles safely across Europe. Our previous van took them no problem. They suggested our dealer contacted their technical director which we have requested; are still awaiting an aknowlegement of my e-mail to Tyne Valley, almost a week now. We're disappointed in the customer service of AutoTrail, their customer services representative was most unhelpful. Anyone else got this problem?

[Tomo3090]

We've got a 2008 Cheyenne 660 and it is the identical layout to yours and the gas locker on that could only take a 13k and a 7k cylinder, that's why we have had a gas tank fitted underneath. This freed up the gas locker for storage. Is this something you might consider?

 

As to your problem, Autotrail do stipulate they can change the spec. of things without notice and so I don't think you have any chance in getting a result there. If you don't want to go down the tank route, then some gas bottles apart from Calor might have slightly different sizes so that might help.

[Keithl]

Hi Babs,

 

You have a legal contract with your dealer and not AT. If your dealer told you that it would take 2 x 13 kg cylinders and it was on that basis that you entered into the contract then surely it is up to your dealer and not AT to make amends at their cost.

I would recommend seeking advice from Trading Standards or the legal department of the AA or RAC if you are a member of either.

 

Hope this helps and I'm sure more suggestions will follow.

 

Keith.

[flicka]

Keithl - 2010-08-28 7:58 PM

 

Hi Babs,

 

You have a legal contract with your dealer and not AT. If your dealer told you that it would take 2 x 13 kg cylinders and it was on that basis that you entered into the contract then surely it is up to your dealer and not AT to make amends at their cost.

I would recommend seeking advice from Trading Standards or the legal department of the AA or RAC if you are a member of either.

 

Hope this helps and I'm sure more suggestions will follow.

 

Keith.

 

Or the Caravan Club, again if a member.

[w1ntersun]

Hi

 

Sorry to here of your problem but if you winter in spain why not do what I do and have spanish gas.

 

Your van will take 2 x 11kg spanish bottles and refills are ony 10 to 11 euros to replace,

 

Richard

[Tomo3090]

I'm not a lawyer Keith but I doubt whether they would have a claim. The only way would be if the size of the gas locker formed part of the contract to buy and unless you specifically requested it I doubt it does. You buy the vehicle supplied by the manufacturer and it's up to them to specify the spec.

 

Babs hasn't specified in her posting that they wanted his item as part of the deal, just that they asked what size gas bottles the locker took. I'm sure things like that have to be specified when you place the order for the van. I know we went through a list of additions we wanted Autotrail to add to the basic build, which they did, everything else was down to them and providing the vehicle wasn't differing in a major way from the advertised product then I can't see where they would have a claim.

 

Interesting one though and I'm sure it's happened before which is why they have the disclaimer on the website and their brochures about changing items on the spec. As do all manufacturers. Just check them out. I have and they do seem to.

[Derek Uzzell]

Coincidentally, there’s a letter in the latest Caravan Club Magazine (September 2010, Page 32) complaining about incorrect technical data printed in a motorcaravan brochure (though, if this particular ‘small bed’ scenario is the one I suspect it is, I’ve heard a significantly different version from another source!)

 

Auto-Trail’s website refers to “Exterior Gas Bottle Locker (Total Propane Capacity(kgs)” and "13" or "7" cylinders. The make of cylinder is not specified and, even if one were to assume it’s Calor, there is no 7kg Calor propane bottle in the Calor range. So that's a 'mistake' and presumably the 13/7 data is repeated in Auto-Trail’s brochures.

 

As Auto-Trail’s brochure carries a specification-change disclaimer, I can’t see why Auto-Trail should be expected to carry out gas-locker modifications free of charge.

 

Reading Babs’s posting suggests that Tyne Valley Motorhomes innocently believed her new Cherokee had a 2x13kg-bottle locker (traditionally an Auto-Trail ‘signature’) and told her this when the vehicle was handed over. It now transpires that it has not. As being able to transport 2x13kg UK gas-bottles is considered extremely important to Babs, then I guess it might be possible to pursue the dealer legally on the basis that they gave her incorrect advice at the hand-over stage and, if they had not done this, or had told her the vehicle could not accommodate 2x13kg cylinders, she might well have rejected the vehicle at that point. Whatever the legal position, as has already been emphasised, it’s the dealer that will need to be targeted not the motorcaravan manufacturer.

 

I hesitate to say this, but, while it probably would have mildly irritated me to find that my new motorhome’s gas-locker could only carry 1x13kg + 1x6kg Calor propane cylinders rather than the 2x13kg I had anticipated, I wouldn’t have made a song and dance about it, and I certainly wouldn’t have sought to have the locker’s interior altered on a one-off basis just to gain an extra 7kg of gas capacity. This gas-capacity limitation is such a straightforward thing to work around, either by employing refillable bottles or ‘foreign’ ones, that it’s surely not worth losing any sleep over - and it's definitely not worth starting a legal battle over.

 

[Big Momma]

I bought a new Autotrail 'Frontier' Comanche in May this year and I had 2 x Gaslow 11Kg bottles fitted with no problems. I have just spent 30 days touring Scotland and used the Gas for Cooking (In the van and via the external Gas BBQ point) and Heating (although only used the gas blown air heating on 2 occasions to take the chill off in the evenings) and when I refilled on my return discovered that I had only used 6 Litres. I have an account with Countrywide Farmers and only pay 45 pence per litre (VAT Inc) so a real bargain. As well as Countrywide giving me a book showing all their UK locations I also have a couple of publications which I obtained via the Internet which show UK and European LPG stations (including Spain).

 

So, if your van will accommodate 2 x 11Kg bottles it may solve your problem to have Gaslow fitted. The initial expense to have this done will soon be recouped.

[Derek Uzzell]

Big Momma - 2010-08-29 3:40 PM

 

...So, if your van will accommodate 2 x 11Kg bottles it may solve your problem to have Gaslow fitted. The initial expense to have this done will soon be recouped.

 

Not so sure about your last sentence claim. If Babs is able to "winter in Spain" and get away with using no more than 26kg of propane during that excursion, this implies a pretty low gas usage.

 

Gaslow installations are far from cheap and (ignoring the convenience offered by refillable gas reservoirs and any potential increase in resale value of the motorhome), you'd need to use a helluva a lot of exchange-only gas bottles to recoup the installation cost.

[Big Momma]

Derek Uzzell - 2010-08-30 12:18 PM

 

Big Momma - 2010-08-29 3:40 PM

 

...So, if your van will accommodate 2 x 11Kg bottles it may solve your problem to have Gaslow fitted. The initial expense to have this done will soon be recouped.

 

Not so sure about your last sentence claim. If Babs is able to "winter in Spain" and get away with using no more than 26kg of propane during that excursion, this implies a pretty low gas usage.

 

Gaslow installations are far from cheap and (ignoring the convenience offered by refillable gas reservoirs and any potential increase in resale value of the motorhome), you'd need to use a helluva a lot of exchange-only gas bottles to recoup the installation cost.

 

You have a point there on Bab's usage, think I was getting a little carried away singing my personal view of Gaslow. However, my point on the 2 x 11KG bottles was because Bab's was talking about not being able to get 2 x 13Kg bottles in to her locker and all the fuss and even potential cost about modifying the gas locker. My suggestion was, and I should have perhaps made it clearer, that instead of looking to modify the locker or having to purchase foreign bottles, Gaslow offered IMHO a reasonable long term solution as the bottles would fit in to the locker and LPG to refill them is available within Europe, albeit that in some places it may not be as widely available, which is where the LPG location guides came in.

 

Sorry for any misunderstanding :$

[Derek Uzzell]

Big Momma - 2010-08-30 10:38 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2010-08-30 12:18 PM

 

Big Momma - 2010-08-29 3:40 PM

 

...So, if your van will accommodate 2 x 11Kg bottles it may solve your problem to have Gaslow fitted. The initial expense to have this done will soon be recouped.

 

Not so sure about your last sentence claim. If Babs is able to "winter in Spain" and get away with using no more than 26kg of propane during that excursion, this implies a pretty low gas usage.

 

Gaslow installations are far from cheap and (ignoring the convenience offered by refillable gas reservoirs and any potential increase in resale value of the motorhome), you'd need to use a helluva a lot of exchange-only gas bottles to recoup the installation cost.

 

You have a point there on Bab's usage, think I was getting a little carried away singing my personal view of Gaslow. However, my point on the 2 x 11KG bottles was because Bab's was talking about not being able to get 2 x 13Kg bottles in to her locker and all the fuss and even potential cost about modifying the gas locker. My suggestion was, and I should have perhaps made it clearer, that instead of looking to modify the locker or having to purchase foreign bottles, Gaslow offered IMHO a reasonable long term solution as the bottles would fit in to the locker and LPG to refill them is available within Europe, albeit that in some places it may not be as widely available, which is where the LPG location guides came in.

 

Sorry for any misunderstanding :$

 

Another possibility would be to see if a pair of the slightly smaller diameter Flogas 11kg propane bottles could be shoe-horned into the locker. That would uprate the carrying capacity from 19kg (Calor 13kg + 6kg) to 22kg - still below the desired 26kg, but not too much.

 

Alternatively, £30 or so should buy an adapter allowing (judicious) refilling of UK-standard exchange-only propane bottles with autogas. Personally, if I were planning an extended trip abroad and intended to carry with me UK bottles containing an amount of gas I estimated to be adequate to last the whole period, I'd definitely want a refilling adapter as a back-up just in case my gas usage calculations proved to be optimistic.

[Babs L]

Thanks for all the suggestions! At this moment in time we are still awaiting a reply from Tyne Valley to my e-mail to them over a week ago. I had an auto-reply telling me that the owner/manager would phone me last Tuesday. While it may seem like a song and dance and not worth the trouble, I still feel that when spending £54,000 on a new 'van it should not be too beyond AutoTrail to modify the locker as a customer goodwill thing. They went beyond being unhelpful and I have naturally gone back to the dealer (see above).Remember it is only the inside that needs adjustment. The locker door and surround is fine.

 

My other point is that having paid the deposit for 2 13kg Calor bottles, I don't see why I should have to fork out again for a different type, let alone a gas tank which is a road we don't want to go down. We have been motorhoming for about 16 years and the AutoTrail will be our final new van (no more money!) It seems a small enough thing to ask for, considering the locker is kitted out for 2 13kg bottles. Will let you all know how it goes. Disappointingly no-one who has bought a new AutoTrail this year has read this piece, I was hoping for a few disgruntled owners thereby applying solidarity!

[first5]

We took delivery of a new Autotrail Frontier from Tyne Valley in April this year. Have just measured the gas loccker, it is 59cm wide. I have a calorgas butane bottle in there at the moment which I think is the 15kg size. The diameter of that is 33cm therefore you can not get 2 bottles of that size in. Am not sure what diameter 13kg bottles are or if Calor Gas do 13kg bottles.

Agree that the brochure does state that locker holds 2 x 13kg bottles. Also agree about Autotrail after sales 'service'!

[Derek Uzzell]

first5 - 2010-09-04 8:13 PM

 

We took delivery of a new Autotrail Frontier from Tyne Valley in April this year. Have just measured the gas loccker, it is 59cm wide. I have a calorgas butane bottle in there at the moment which I think is the 15kg size. The diameter of that is 33cm therefore you can not get 2 bottles of that size in. Am not sure what diameter 13kg bottles are or if Calor Gas do 13kg bottles.

Agree that the brochure does state that locker holds 2 x 13kg bottles. Also agree about Autotrail after sales 'service'!

 

According to the CC's handbook the diameters of (respectiively) a Calor 15kg butane bottle or a Calor 13kg propane bottle are 318mm or 315mm. Both have a height of 580mm. I've seen a couple of mildly different designs of Calor 15kg butane canister, though I'd be suprised if any of these had a diameter as large as the 330mm you quote. There should be no difficulty whatsoever in identifying a Calor 15kg butane bottle - it will have "Calor" written on it, be painted blue and be bloody heavy (30.7kg full). Calor propane bottles are painted an orangey red. Obviously, with a locker wdth of 590mm, it will be impossible to fit in two large Calor butane or propane cylinders, and two Flogas 13kg(butane/11kg(propane) bottles shouldn't go in either as their CC quoted diameter is 310mm.

 

While it might be nice if Auto-Trail decided to make the modification Babs wants as a goodwill free-of-charge gesture, I honestly can't see any reason why they should. Their brochure carries a disclaimer and their website has been updated to indicate the Frontier's current specification. As the required modification apparently breaks new ground for Auto-Trail, there's no guarantee the work won't present serious problems, nor that the customer will find the result satisfactory.

 

You can bet your life that the width of the Frontier's locker-interior has not been reduced just for fun and, although it might seem adding 70mm or so to its interior length should be a simple matter, it's very possibly not. My 2005 Hobby's gas-locker is sized to (just) accept 1x11kg + 1x5kg German bottles, but the 2006 version's locker will take 2x11kg German cylinders. However, this apprently minor change has a significant impact on the storage available within the kitchen furniture. Me, I much rather have the extra storage than the extra gas.

[JohnP]

Have you tried putting the bottles in diagonally? You may find that this works but you may have to move one of the mounting straps/cradles.

[flicka]

Although I doubt any success in getting Autotrail to modify the Gas Locker.

(as Derek states it will not just be a case of increasing the size, it will entail other associated changes.

IMHO Autotrail should accept it is a design fault, as they surely must be aware of the cylinder sizes available in the UK, be it Calor, Flowgas, BP Light or other supplier.

 

[first5]

 

 

Posts: 4

 

Babs,

firstly I must apologise for providing such misleading information.

After reading your post on Saturday evening I especially went out to measure the gaslocker and bottles in my own 2010 Autotrail Motorhome. As you will see by the time of my own posting, I did this just after 8pm on Saturday evening, just as it was getting dark. Had I known then of the exacting information required by some members of this forum replying to your problem, then I would not have bothered.

I have however again measured my van and can say that the locker is 586mm wide and the gas bottle installed is 324mm at its widest point. The bottle is blue and is Calor as it is written in big letters on the side. I cannot be sure of the exact size as the number after the 1 is worn and could either be 3 or 5.

Whilst CC & Calor gas literature may show the size of these bottles as no more than 318mm then I can only suggest that this measurement is the diameter of the Tank and does not include the wider base.

I also have other 13kg butane gas bottles, Shell & Macgas. These are slightly smaller at 290mm diameter. I know this because it is either written on the side of the bottles or I have measured them. Both are blue but slightly different shades so will summise that they are Butane. (here was me thinking that blue bottles were for attaching to the cold tap and red bottles to the hot tap!).

You can take it from me that although it should be possible to fit both of these bottles in the locker, you can''t - I have tried.

If you would to speak further regarding this then please feel free to contact me by e-mail.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

I think AutoTrail are behaving shabbily, and that you have every right to feel aggrieved.  However, that gives you no real leverage, and I don't think you really have any.  To produce a brochure with detailed specifications that you subsequently revise but announce on your website presumes everyone will closely monitor the website for signs of change, which is presumptuous.  To fall back on the standard disclaimer after making the change is, shall we say, amateur. If the van was properly designed before the brochure was printed the difference would not have arisen.  Clearly it was not.  Your dealer has legal liability to deliver what you ordered.  If you had the foresight to specify your gas locker requirements in writing as part of your order you've got Tyne Valley.  I don't expect you did, why would you, as the brochure was clear.  To some extent you are entitled to rely on the brochure description where the actual goods are not available to inspect at the time of order, and the disclaimer has to be reasonable in context.  However, that path leads to a potentially long and expensive legal battle.  A proper letter to the MD of Tyne Valley, copied to the MD of Auto Trail, stating your extreme displeasure at the way the change was introduced despite assurances to the contrary might yield some give on their parts, but I has me doubts.  Otherwise, unless you want to start chucking money at m'learned friends, I'd suggest a workaround as suggested above, will prove the cheaper, albeit irritating, option.  In view of your intended use, probably two refillables will be the best bet and will give the greatest flexibility.