Catalytic Converter Theft

[Guest Tracker]

There you go again - no point to make just pointless insults?

 

You can be as rude as you like it matters not to me - I just thought that your comment was a little unkind and I would have expected any reasonable person to have simply qualified what they meant to say - which indeed you did - and quietly left it at that?

 

Asking too much am I?

 

 

[Rayjsj]

While you two have been argueing I hope someone hasn't slipped past you and nicked both of your cats ? I blame the poor regulation of Scrap dealers, ALL scrap metal items should be backed up with 'Source' paperwork to guarantee that it hasn't been nicked, IE. Metal Sewer/Drain covers,bronze statues (Brunel !! from Pembroke dock !! god bless him) Plaques (Pembroke again !from around the dock wall) in fact any metal Items are fair game it seems, whilst China and India are paying big bucks for scrap. Any Toe-Rags caught should be charged for the FULL value of what they have destroyed (the Statue cost £25,000) the scrap value maybe a couple of hundred.The Scrap dealers should lose their business if found to have Received stolen property. Hang Them ! Judge.

[bob b]

Once they're caught, the hundred pound fine, plus the 6 week community service order will soon put a stop to this type of theft. 

[Guest Tracker]

Tell me about it Ray!

 

Poor old Isambard used to stand at Nayland harbour - a port of his own creation - we do indeed live in a sick country.

 

Manhole covers too often disappear at night and it is a wonder that noonne has been seriously injured.

 

But never mind at least the perpetrators can return to one of their nice safe caravan sites also provided at our expense and make themselves warm and comfortable for the rest of the night.

 

It may be worth considering burring the bolts that hold the cat in place to prevent it's quiet removal but then again what if we need to replace the darned thing one day - grind it off I suppose - bit of a bugger though if you only need to replace the exhaust and not the cat!

[flicka]

For the toerags to nick the Catayltic Converters they need an outlet and their only routes appear to be Scrap Dealers/Merchants, a rogue Garage or export.

There have been nationally reported incidents similarly with Lead from Church Roofs, Copper from Cabling, etc..

The regulation of Scrap Merchants & their subsequent outlets is inadequate and needs to be expanded & enforced.

Platium from Catalytic Converters, as I understand has to go back to the Refiners as it is too contaminated for Jewellery or Medical use, so the Refiners have a responsibility of traceability right back to it's origin, i.e a Motor Dealer, who can prove documentation for having purchased a legitimate replacement & Registration No. of the vehicle from which it came.

Unless the above doors are closed to the Toe-rags, nothing will improve.

[bob b]

I remember a pal telling me of an incident concerning the spare wheel on his flat bed lorry. He had to leave the lorry parked in a layby regularly overnight. One morning he arrived and noticed the spare wheel cradle hanging down and the wheel stolen.

He had to buy a replacement wheel and tyre. A few days later the replacement was stolen. After buying yet another wheel and tyre, he replaced the securing bolts and disconnected the lowering mechanism.

A couple of days later, he arrived to find the spare wheel on the road under the lorry and a trail of blood leading away from the vehicle.

All perfectly satisfactory.

[euroserv]

A genuinely heart-warming tale. Thank you Bob.

 

Rounding off the bolt heads or welding the pipes in place holds no worries for future maintenance since it is normally necessary to cut the bolts off or replace them due to worn threads anyway. The problem is that the scrotes concerned can easily obtain the same chain type pipe cutter that is used in the fitting bays for just a few pounds. Then you will need to replace down-pipes and other sections of pipe as well, and that can be pretty expensive too.

 

Although I have heard many stories about stolen cats we have never actually had one removed from any of our vehicles. If we had I think I would have been wrapping them in razor wire or something. Maybe a shallow wall 2 or 3 bricks high around where you park your pride and joy would prevent anyone slipping underneath as long as you don't drive into it all the time!

 

I completely agree that the scrap industry needs regulating. I find it incredible that almost all transactions are by cash! If all payments had to be made electronically to the sellers bank account that would introduce some traceability and would probably control the sale of stolen metal and therefore reduce the theft of it.

 

In the mean-time, someone in an old transit dropside has just pulled up outside and is offering to buy any old cats for £20 a piece! Cash.

 

Nice.

 

Nick

[Guest Peter James]

Sorry to hear of your bad luck and thanks for posting.

 

Just had a look at mine (Citroen Relay X/250 Van with Puma engine as Ducato 100hp) and there is very little room around the CAT. Would be very difficult to get the CAT off at the roadside, so I wondered if Chassis Cab built versions have more room around the CAT and are therefore more vulnerable to CAT theft?

 

Sawing the CAT off would be even more difficult, and I would be far more likely to hear the thief working. So might be worth looking at security shear nuts (like these http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=ONEO4LZKKMFJYCSTHZOCFFA?_dyncha**et=UTF-8&fh_search=13907-10&searchbutton.x=13&searchbutton.y=8&searchbutton=submit )

 

My other question is, if I fitted security nuts like these would it still be possible to get the CAT off if necessary for maintenance? There isn't room to get a normal 4 1/2" angle grinder near it.

 

 

[AlanYoung]

Just an update from a now desperate & frustrated Fiat Ducato X250 owner who cannot get a replacement part after 18 days. I am due to board a ferry on Saturday 2nd Oct for 3 weeks motorhoming in France/Spain but it is looking increasingly likely that this will not happen as Italy are out of stock of the errant part. Fortunately Spain appear to have some but their ETA in the UK is uncertain. So if the worst was to happen to anyone else they should be prepared for a long time off the road.

[Guest Peter James]

Hi ,

 

Sorry to hear that. Which part is is they stole - is it the pre catalyst (number 1 in attached diagram - Microsoft Word file) - the bit directly next to the turbo, or the catalyst - the bit hung on to the underbody? (number 5 in attached diagram)

 

PS: Attached file opens with Microsoft Word and is a diagram of the X250 exhaust system

X250 exhaust.doc

[thebishbus]

Hi Alan. Rather than miss your holiday, why not temporary bypass the cat with a bit of pipe, measure the diameter, check with your local exhaust centre, I think they should be able to cut a bit off an old exhaust that should fit inside or out, as a bonus you may get more MPG as well. ;-)

Brian B.

[euroserv]

That will not work, the engine will run in limp mode and smoke like crazy.

 

Just had one of ours pinched off a vehicle (a 6.5T Iveco Daily). Thankfully on long term hire to a customer so their insurance can cough up the £1800 bill! Also was warned that the vehicle MUST NOT BE DRIVEN with cat missing.

 

This was in NE Leicestershire.

 

Nick

[thebishbus]

Ah -well Nick , thats progress for you, it had used to work, in fact some people took their cats off, and only put them back on for the MOT, you live and learn. :-S .

Brian B.

[nowtelse2do]

Don't know if you can answer this Nick but why platinum in cat's? surely something cheaper can be made, or a different type of system used. The automotive industry by now must be realising what is going on with all these theft's, or is it just good business for them.

Dave

[rolandrat]

Richard Baldwins once had a breakin and numerous Cats were taken off new and secondhand motorhomes so he had to install extra security measures, it must have cost a fortune to replace them.

[Guest Peter James]

I don't know which is the valuble bit we need to protect. Is it the pre catalyst (1),

or is it the Catalyst (5) in the file above (?)

[euroserv]

The cat itself (5) is the only bit that contains the precious metals.

 

For a more full explaination of the design of the cat you should consult wiki but basically the device is there to clean up the exhaust gasses. In order to convert one substance into another or others you need a catalyst. The chemical properties of the catalyst have to be very specific otherwise you will produce other substances that are undesirable or even dangerous. platinum, rhodium and palladium are the metals that cause the right kind of reaction, and so in spite of the cost (and if there was a cheaper way the manufacturers would have found it by now) thats just the way it is.

 

I would not expect this problem to be solved until the insurance companies refuse to cover theft of cats. If people stop buying particular vehicles because of their vulnerability and lack of insurance cover, the devices will become cheaper and better protected. That is what happened to hot hatch cars in the early 90's. Security improved significantly for all cars once the insurance firms said enough was enough.

 

I have found a site in the US and UK that sells a wire rope protection device that while not making theft impossible; will slow theives down enough to make them look elsewhere. Search 'Catalytic converter theft' on google and you will see what I mean.

 

Nick

[nowtelse2do]

Thanks Nick, much more clearer now (no pun intended) and you have also answered my next question which was about the insurance consequences.

Looks like we maybe having to dig deeper into our pockets again.

Dave

[Keithl]

Hi all,

 

Here's a link to the CatClamp that Nick mentions in his last post for anyone that is interested.

 

Keith.

[Guest Peter James]

euroserv - 2010-09-30 8:59 AM

 

The cat itself (5) is the only bit that contains the precious metals.

Nick

 

Thanks for the reply Nick. That explains a lot. I had seen part (1) advertised on ebay as the catalytic converter (for £180 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250687188126&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123 ) looked at mine and noticed it was very inaccessible and difficult to remove at the roadside.

But now you tell me part (5) is the valuable bit I can see that is much easier to get to, could easily be cut off with an exhaust cutter, so my previous suggestion of security shear nuts is unlikely to stop a thief.

 

Back to the Drawing Board.

[Guest Peter James]

Another part (1) here advertised as the catalytic converter (link added below), and showing a sensor in it. I notice there are no sensors wired in downstream of this point. So if (5) is the valuable bit, and you replace (5) with a straight through pipe, how would the ECU detect that and go into limp mode?

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-RELAY-BOXER-MK3-CATALYTIC-CONVERTER-CAT-2-2-HDI_W0QQitemZ400141804182QQcategoryZ10376QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DDLSL%252BSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D8%26pmod%3D250687188126%252B250687188126%26po%3D%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5302531354032610739

[AlanYoung]

With the help of Glen Harris at Johns Cross who put me in touch with their local Fiat Dealer in Hastings I was able to obtain a replacement part on the day before I was due to depart to France/Spain and fit it myself. I was obviously extremely lucky that somebody had a stock item, as my local Fiat Dealer had done the usual check of stock availibilty on the Fiat Dealer Network to no avail. I have just returned from a good three week break & am awaiting my insurer's cheque for £620, I had to pay an excess of £100. My next concern is how do I prevent a re-occurrence, I believe that some Motorhome dealers have to remove the cat from their stock only refitting them when somebody requests a test drive. I have looked at the CatClamp but cannot see how it would fix as the chassis deatils of the X250 look very different to the example in their video.

[Rayjsj]

Until someone REALLY punishes the scrap dealers, by taking away there license to work, and sends them to prison if they continue to deal in stolen property then this will continue. It really is crazy that bronze statues, plaques,roofing lead, Drain covers, almost new and brand new catalytic converters can even be considered as 'Scrap' These bods are evil and not just 'scallywags' . And they need their knuckles severly 'Rapped'.

And ban ALL scrap metal exports. Until the problem is Halted.

China and India can wait. Ray

Aren't there enough scrap cars to keep them happy ?

[Kerunk]

I glad I have a diesel! I just removed mine and fitted a straight pipe. Now it runs better, reduced reading on the MOT emissions test and nothing to steal.

 

Rob

[Mel B]

Kerunk - 2010-10-26 7:40 PM

 

I glad I have a diesel! I just removed mine and fitted a straight pipe. Now it runs better, reduced reading on the MOT emissions test and nothing to steal.

 

Rob

 

Eh??????? 8-)

 

How does that work then ... i thought the CAT 'reduced' the readings! Is it illegal to remove it? :-S