Guest JudgeMental Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 The heating in the van seems to have packed up on the 230v side, their is juice there, the heater is making a noise as usual, but only cold air being blown out of vents. Have hd a look in manual, and tried the reset button on the side under sliding cover, but no luck there... It says the fuses only to be, quote: "only changed by experts!" I guess the fuses are in the box on the side:-S Gas side fine.....Any thoughts please? Or does anyone now a mobile engineer that covers London & S/E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 If you google Truma 6002EH and then select either www.leisureshopdirect.com or www.campingrus.co.uk both sites have a schematic drawing of this heater. A 10 amp fuse is shown (Item 16) This is probably what you want but you may be able to locate its position from the diagram and test it with a multimeter. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Is the yellow 'electric mode' light on the power selector switch illuminating? If it isn't, then, as you've tried resetting the overheating switch and seem confident that there's no problem with the 230V power-supply to the heater itself, then (as JohnP suggests) a failed 'device fuse' seems a fair bet for the cause of the problem. The fuse is in the 'power electronics' part of the heater (ie. the "box on the side" that carries the overheating reset button) and - although I've never checked - I suspect that it's pretty simple to change provided that you can access the beggar. Obviously one would need to ensure that there's no chance of 230V power being present before opening the power-electronics box and fiddling about inside, and also ensure that the correct type of 10A fuse were used as a replacement. Before getting in an engineer, it would be wise to seek advice from the Truma(UK) technicians about this, just in case there are other possiblities not described in Truma's Operating Instructions. (Are you absolutely sure that this isn't due to something simple, like the circuit-breaker that passes 230V power to the heater tripping out?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Judge, Our MH has a 230v isolating switch for the Truma located at the back of the wardrobe above the heater, does yours have anything similar possibly hidden out of sight? Can you follow the 230v wiring to check there is no hidden switch that may have accidentally got knocked. Keith. Edit. Just to say that the Gas side of the heater and the blower still work on ours when the isolating switch is turned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Hmmm....So when I am assuming there is voltage there as it is making a noise it may well be just the 12v......Thanks Chaps! I will investigate further and look for the 230v trip/fuse or switch! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Keithl - 2010-10-27 10:35 AM ...Just to say that the Gas side of the heater and the blower still work on ours when the isolating switch is turned off. Yes, I did wonder myself whether or not choosing a C-6002EH's 230V-power option when no 230V supply was present would still allow the 12V side of the heater to work, so I checked what happened with the heater in my own (un-hooked-up) Hobby before posting above. As you rightly say, even with no 230V power reaching the appliance when 230V-only (or mixed 230V+gas mode) has been chosen, certain 12V-dependent functions, like the blown-air fan (and, in mixed mode, gas heating) will still operate. I guess this shouldn't be too surprising with hindsight as, when the heater is placed in mixed-mode, the 12V side must remain operational. Choosing the 230V-only option, then deliberately ensuring that no 230V power is reaching the heater, would allow unheated air to be circulated within the motorhome's interior via the heater's blown-air fan. Can't really think why anyone should be perverse enough to want to do this, but the capability seems to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Is it sufficient output to save buying an Air Con Unit, Derek :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Well this thread is good practise anyway as it appears today to be working no problem *-) I admit the Truma controls are far from user friendly compared to the Alde I was used to. So I always have the book at hand, I am pretty sure it was not working yesterday but today fine! user error? surely not! :D Euramobil have a good manual plus with spare fuses included, so if it had happened out and about I may of been OK :-S I had ran it on gas overnight, and following Derek's advice reset the breaker but light was on at charger anyway..... Was going to check 10 amp fuse but heating was working ( I turned of gas and tried an hour later to be sure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Our Rapido wiring seems to indicate that there maybe two 12 volt circuits in use on the heater. Could there be a 12volt fuse problem somewhere ? I say this because if the control panel is switched off, the heater will not work (No fan, Nothing ! (as you would expect) ) However if the control panel is switched off (accidently or otherwise), the fan will keep running to cool the heater matrix. (from memory there is a flashing green LED in the switch whilst this is happening.) Also if any changes or lose of power occures, the heater Mode swicth ( Gas or elect / gas and elec ) must be switched to OFF and then back to the mode required. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 tonyishuk - 2010-10-27 3:08 PM Our Rapido wiring seems to indicate that there maybe two 12 volt circuits in use on the heater. Could there be a 12volt fuse problem somewhere ? I say this because if the control panel is switched off, the heater will not work (No fan, Nothing ! (as you would expect) ) However if the control panel is switched off (accidently or otherwise), the fan will keep running to cool the heater matrix. (from memory there is a flashing green LED in the switch whilst this is happening.) Also if any changes or lose of power occures, the heater Mode swicth ( Gas or elect / gas and elec ) must be switched to OFF and then back to the mode required. Rgds A Truma C-6002EH has two separate electrical power supplies – a 12V supply that powers the heater’s gas-burner and blown-air fans, gas solenoid-valves and the control electronics, and a 230V supply that provides power to the appliance’s two 900W heating elements. The 12V power supply is the most important. No 12V supply means that NONE of the heater’s functions will operate. No 230V supply just means no 230V heating, but 12V functionality (eg. blown-air fan operation) is retained. These types of heater are quite complex logically and there seems to be a good deal of misunderstanding among motorcaravanners about exactly how they operate. My Hobby’s C-6002EH heater gets its 12V power (via a 10A fuse) on the CBE DS-300HB Distribution Box that handles the motorhome’s 12V electrical services. If that fuse fails, then the heater can’t operate. The supply from the Distribution Box to the heater, in fact, only becomes ‘live’ when the main switch on the motorhome’s CBE PC-100HB-T Control Panel (located above the entrance-door in the Hobby’s case) is moved to the ON position. Occasionally I forget that this switch is OFF (and its pathetic little dim LED doesn’t help) and then wonder why the heater doesn’t work when I turn it on! 230V power is supplied to the Hobby’s heater via a CBE mains consumer-unit with MCBs and a RCD main switch. Obviously, for the heater’s 230V capability to function, there needs to be a 230V electrical hook-up feeding power to the motorhome and the RCD and the appropriate MCB needs to be ON. (Earlier in this thread Keithl says that his Auto-Trail has a “230V isolation switch” for its heater. I think this arrangement may be commonplace on UK-built mtorhomes, but my Hobby hasn’t got one.) A C-6002EH is operated via a “Power Selector Switch” (PSS) and a “Control Panel” (CP) They look a bit similar, but need to be considered individually. You begin by selecting via the PSS which ‘fuel’ you want the heater to use (gas-only, 230V-only, or 230V+ gas) and then you choose via the CP whether you want the appliance to heat just water (and to what temperature) or air (and to what temperature) as well. As Truma takes two pages of its C-6002EH Operating Instructions to describe these processes, I’m not going into greater detail. If blown-air heating has been operating and you switch off the heater at the CP, the heater’s blown-air fan will run at medium speed for quite a while afterwards to utilise the residual heat within the appliance. This is mentioned in the “Switching off” section of the Operating Instructions and it’s perfectly normal behaviour. (The green light in the CP switch does NOT flash while this is going on, however.) Interrupting the 12V supply to the heater (via the over-door control-panel’s main switch in my Hobby’s case) will override this process. I’m not sure about tonyishuk’s last paragraph, as there is no OFF-position on the Power Selector Switch. Truma does advise that the PSS always be set to the gas-only position after the heater has been switched off, but that’s to prevent potential overloading of the 230V power supply when the heater is next switched on, rather than a prerequisite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWO Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Don't just look at the fuse either. Mine looked ok thro the glass, but with a meter on it, it was diss at one end HWO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Derek Uzzell - 2010-10-28 9:12 AM I’m not sure about tonyishuk’s last paragraph, as there is no OFF-position on the Power Selector Switch. Truma does advise that the PSS always be set to the gas-only position after the heater has been switched off, but that’s to prevent potential overloading of the 230V power supply when the heater is next switched on, rather than a prerequisite. Thanks for the response. I probably did not explain it to well in my post. The Off switch I was refering to is the mid position on the switch dial that contols the temperatures (Hopefully attached to this reply) If the power is switched (240 or 12v) or gas is interupted, the heater unit stops working and the dial set to 0 to reset the unit. Maybe its a fail safe device introduced for accident prone campers like me ! Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 tonyishuk - 2010-10-28 7:00 PM Derek Uzzell - 2010-10-28 9:12 AM I’m not sure about tonyishuk’s last paragraph, as there is no OFF-position on the Power Selector Switch. Truma does advise that the PSS always be set to the gas-only position after the heater has been switched off, but that’s to prevent potential overloading of the 230V power supply when the heater is next switched on, rather than a prerequisite. Thanks for the response. I probably did not explain it to well in my post. The Off switch I was refering to is the mid position on the switch dial that contols the temperatures (Hopefully attached to this reply) If the power is switched (240 or 12v) or gas is interupted, the heater unit stops working and the dial set to 0 to reset the unit. Maybe its a fail safe device introduced for accident prone campers like me ! Rgds Tony, The pictures you have provided relate to a Truma "Combi-E" heater, so, presumably, that's what you've got. JudgeMental has a Truma C-6002EH heater, as do I. Although the general principles behind these appliances are similar, Combi and C-Series heaters are quite different technically and do not operate identically. For instance, having glanced through the Combi Operating Instructions, I came across the following statement in the Switching Off section: "If the green LED (k) blinks after switching off, then the unit‘s after-running is active in order to reduce the unit‘s temperature. This will end after a few minutes and the green LED (k) will go off." This tallies with what you said in your first posting - it's correct for a Combi, but not for a C-6002EH. Ignoring 'physical' differences between C-6002EH and Combi designs (eg. 12 litre water capacity and 7.8kW maximum heat output for a C-6002EH, 10 litres and 6kW for a Combi 6E), there are noticeable variations between the respective Operating Instructions. If the gas-supply to a C-6002EH is interrupted when the heater is operating on gas, then the heater wiil recognise this as a fault and shut down. Restoring the gas-supply will not cause the heater to restart automatically - as you point out, the CP switch must be moved to the "O" position before reselecting gas-fuelled air/water heating. However, it's plain from earlier postings that the 12V side of a C-6002EH will continue to operate even if 230V-only mode is selected with no 230V power-supply present. On that basis (and from what's implied in the heater's Operating Instructions), it's quite likely that interrupting the 230V power-supply to a C-6002EH and then restoring the supply won't require the CP switch to be moved to the "O" position and that heating will recommence automatically once mains-power has been restored. (I say "quite likely" because I've never tested this theory, and I'm happy to be corrected.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 It does not help judgemental original query but I blame Truma too many product codes wot sorta look the same. :D Rgds (Or maybe I should read the posts fully before poping in with my 2ps worth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolly1965 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Sorry to resurrect an old post but my Traumatic c 6002 eh has a similar problem. I can use electric to heat te water but when used the heat the an there is no warm air coming out. I left the unit on full all night and still no heat. As I said works fine on electric to heat te water. I'm stumped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Bolly1965 - 2014-10-09 11:31 PM Sorry to resurrect an old post but my Traumatic c 6002 eh has a similar problem. I can use electric to heat te water but when used the heat the an there is no warm air coming out. I left the unit on full all night and still no heat. As I said works fine on electric to heat te water. I'm stumped As you can obtain hot water when operating your C-6002EH heater on 230V mains electricity, the heater’s 230V heating elements are (probably!) not to blame for the failure to obtain blown-air heating via a 230V power-supply. As providing IT-support used to be one of my (more thankless) tasks, I tend to attribute any sort of ‘operating’ problem to user-error and - because operating a C-6002EH is not that intuitive - I wonder if it’s what you are doing (or not doing) that’s the problem. I assume you have a copy of Truma’s Operating Instructions for your C-6002EH appliance. To obtain blown-air heating using just 230V you first need to select position ‘c’ or ‘d’ as shown on the drawing of the Power Selector Switch. (You must have done this to obtain hot-water heating using just 230V.) Referring to the drawing of the heater’s Control Panel, you next need to select position ‘m’ or ’n’. Now turn the Control Panel’s rotary switch clockwise to its maximum room-temperature setting of ‘9’ and the heater’s blown-air fan should begin to run. Because a C-6002EH’s heat output on 230V-alone is relatively low (a maximum of 1800W) the blown-air fan won’t run very fast and the temperature of the air emerging from the air-outlets will never be very high, but the blown-air fan SHOULD run and some ‘background warmth’ air-heating should (eventually) be provided if you follow the above procedure. Don’t expect the air emerging from the outlets to become warm as quickly as it does when the heater is operating on gas as it takes some while for the 230V elements to heat up and begin to produce any sort of useful heat-transfer to the air passing through the heater. If the heater’s blown-air fan does not begin to run when a room-temperature setting of ‘9’ is selected (This should force blown-air operation to commence unless the temperature within the motorhome is like that of a nuclear-furnace!) then something’s at fault and leaving “...the unit on full all night...” won’t cure this. (Presumably your heater otherwise performs as expected?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I wonder of this poster could tell us if his unit gives him blow air heating on gas, or does he just use mains hookups, if the latter is the case he may have a defective room temperature sensor, dead easy to check though, just locate in your van, prise it out, then short out the two connections with the heating dial turned up to maximum, if the air distribution fan then starts to turn ( although it will hardly blow at all to begin with ) you've found the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolly1965 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Yes it works fine on gas. I have to admit that the fan does come on very low but only cold air comes out of the vents on electric. With the exception of very lukewarm air from the closest vent, which isn't even as warm as te cupboard the heater is located in. I have checked the manual to ensure I am operating it correctly. I have two sensors in my van. Could one be for gas operation and one electric? My previous van had a carver 2kw blown air unit which managed to keep the van toasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Although the photo on your postings is of a Herald Valencia, I believe you own a 2006 Bessacarr E765 that you bought in mid-2012. Joe90 referred to the room-temperature sensor and provided a photo of it. A C-6002EH heater is designed to have just one of these sensors and it regulates the heater’s blown-air operation irrespective of whether the appliance is using 230V or gas (or 230V + gas) as the ‘fuel source'. I’m doubtful that it’s physically practicable to connect two room-temperature sensors to a C-6002EH. The capability is not mentioned in Truma’s Installation Instructions and it would be a weird thing to consider doing. If your motorhome really does have two room-temperature sensors, I’m guessing that a previous owner has decided that the sensor originally fitted when the motorhome was built was poorly positioned and has installed another sensor in a better location. It’s possible that, if you prised the sensors out, you’d find that one of them has no cable connected to it. Alternatively both sensors might have cables connected to them, but only one of those cables is connected to the heater itself. (You can test the operation of the sensor without removing it. Just rotate the room-temperature switch to a setting that has the blown-air fan running fairly slowly, cup your hands over the sensor and blow steadily against it through your cupped hands. Your hot breath should cause the sensor to react and the blown-air fan to stop running temporarily. Using a hair-dryer would also work.) A C-6002EH has two 900W heating elements integrated into its central heat-exchanger. These elements (so a Truma technician once told me) operate in series so that, when the 900W setting is selected on the Power Selector Switch, each element outputs 450W, or, when the 1800W setting is selected on the Power Selector Switch, each element outputs its full 900W. As I suggested earlier, as you can heat water via 230V, the elements must be functional. You’ve now said that the blown-air fan runs when you select 230V air-heating, which implies that there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with the system itself. At the 900W setting the air emerging from the outlet-vents will be warm at best. The better the design of the motorhome’s blown-air system, the warmer the air should be, but if your Bessacarr’s system is non-optimal (as many systems are) there will be a lot of heat loss. Your statement “...only cold air comes out of the vents on electric, with the exception of very lukewarm air from the closest vent which isn't even as warm as the cupboard the heater is located in” may well be describing the best you can expect on the 900W setting. On the other hand, if that’s what’s happening when the 1800W setting is chosen, something’s peculiar. As your heating system works OK on gas, heats water OK on 230V and (seemingly) can also heat air after a fashion on 230V, it’s difficult to decide why the 230V air-heating is so poor. If you set everything to maximum - choose the 1800W 230V setting and rotate the room-temperature switch to “9” - you OUGHT to get a reasonable amount of better-than-lukewarm air from the outlet-vent closest to the heater. I’m now wondering whether the problem lies not with the heater but with its installation. I remember seeing a UK-built motorhome years ago (pretty sure it was a Swift Group model) that had a Truma C-Series heater in the base of a wardrobe with a massive gas ’safety drop-vent’ in the floor next to the heater. Rather than the heater recirculating warmed air throughout the vehicle as Truma intends should happen, the heater would instead have been continuously drawing in cold air from outside. If your motorhome’s heater-installation followed that format, the heater’s performance would definitely be compromised in blown-air mode when operating from the limited heating power available from 230V-alone. It might also explain why your heater can heat water adequately on 230V-alone (when no air is being blown over the heat-exchanger’s elements) but not heat air well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 And just another couple of thoughts to the above advice, when I first had my van, although the heating seemed OK on gas, on the only occasion I tried the electric only option it did not impress, sometime later I discovered that two of the blow air circulation pipes had popped out of the heater at it's base. In addition after rectifying this, after testing it took an awful long time for any meaningful heat to emerge, just on the electric setting, so in addition to all of the advice above, I'd get down and check that all of your air circulation pipes are well attached, even if you appear to be getting heat on the gas setting, as the output on gas being so much higher would overcome to a degree any of the circulation pipes having popped out as this heater can really push some air out on the gas setting unlike the electric only option, which may leave you to think they may are all fully attached. So check that out, then try again, but it is a waiting game on electric only. Edit, I've just re-read your post, you did leave it on all night, in which case I'd have expected you to have a very hot tank of water that morning, that would indicate the heating elements were working, even if the blow air wasn't.The electric side of the heater utilizes the same heating elements for both settings, failing that I'd suspect the PCBs of which there are two, one resembling a computer in it's complexity, and the one that's often replaced as a first option. Should that be the case I'd ignore the electric heating, get a free standing oil rad instead, that would be a far cheaper solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Is it possible that the fault lies in the 900W/1800W switch, or its wiring, and that it simply isn't switching in the full 1800W output whatever position the switch. Don't forget to disconnect the mains before investigating this possibility, though! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-10-11 10:51 AM Is it possible that the fault lies in the 900W/1800W switch, or its wiring, and that it simply isn't switching in the full 1800W output whatever position the switch. Don't forget to disconnect the mains before investigating this possibility, though! :-) The man say's he is getting hot water on electric, he also further states there is NO warm air at all on electric, even of only the lower setting of 900 watts was providing his hot water, there would be some heat on blow air, albeit not very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Oh well, it was only a shot in the dark. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joe90 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Brian Kirby - 2014-10-11 5:20 PM Oh well, it was only a shot in the dark. :-) Peter Sellers, 1964. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Joe90 - 2014-10-11 11:02 AM Brian Kirby - 2014-10-11 10:51 AM Is it possible that the fault lies in the 900W/1800W switch, or its wiring, and that it simply isn't switching in the full 1800W output whatever position the switch. Don't forget to disconnect the mains before investigating this possibility, though! :-) The man say's he is getting hot water on electric, he also further states there is NO warm air at all on electric, even of only the lower setting of 900 watts was providing his hot water, there would be some heat on blow air, albeit not very much. If you re-read the earlier postings you’ll see Bolly1965 said that (having selected 230V blown-air operation) “...I have to admit that the fan does come on very low but only cold air comes out of the vents on electric. With the exception of very lukewarm air from the closest vent, which isn't even as warm as the cupboard the heater is located in.” So air is emerging from the blown-air outlets (implying that those outlets are connected to the heater) and this air does seem to be being warmed up - though (as you say) not very much. If, as Brian suggests, the heating elements are producing sub-standard output despite the 900W or 1800W setting being chosen, heating water to a significantly high temperature would still be possible - it would just take a lot longer than if the correct wattage were available. This is the sort of problem that’s hard to diagnose remotely. Basic things need to be checked - like the air-trunking not being connected properly to the heater that you’ve mentioned - and, if that reveals nothing untoward, a systematic approach needs to be taken to decide what the heater can and can’t do. It really needs someone familiar with how a Truma C-6002EH normally performs to take a look at the motorhome to see what’s happening. For instance, if the water takes a much longer period of time to come up to temperature than one might expect, this might point to a problem with the heating elements. But, to be able to do this, the person inspecting the vehicle would need to know how quickly a C-6602EH normally takes to heat water. Although I used to heat water via 230V with my C-6002EH I don’t recall ever employing its 230V capability for blown-air heating. The Truma heater was under the bed and the heater turning itself on and off used to irritate me when I was trying to sleep. Instead I’d use a freestanding fan-heater in the front part of the motorhome’s living-area. (I assume this lack of air-heating on 230V has been present during the last 2 years?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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